Sony & Clouds. Somebody share your FACTS.

[fido87456]

To answer the original post, I have a Sony KDL40W4000, and when I first got it, it had very slight clouding on one side of the screen. it was only noticeable when viewing in very very subdued lighting. And it wasn't possible to remove by calibrating the screen. I haven't noticed it for a long time now, and I do watch in subdued lighting most nights so that probably means it has faded away over time. (can't check now as its too sunny!)

The main issue I have is the viewing angle, with blacks fading to dark grey and colours washing out if I move a couple of feet to either side of my central viewing position. I believe thats down to the LCD technology rather than Sony though. And as I always have the central spot its not a big issue for me.

 

[laserman16]

Ravey Gravey Davy:hmtb:

I would like to take this opportunity to encourage a more extensive use of full sentences and a greater adherence to the rules of grammar and punctuation. They are an invaluable tool in aiding the correct interpretation of what people post. Some posts are, quite frankly, incomprehensible as a result of the lack of punctuation. I know this is a forum and therefore more relaxed, but where omitting full stops and commas can have a significant impact on the understanding of a post, I do think it would be good practice to include them.

I'm not suggesting extensive proof-reading of posts, but re-reading what has been written to make sure it makes sense and flows smoothly would be helpful, particularly with regards to punctuation. Please, guide your reader.

I only raise this, as it may help to avoid misunderstandings in the future.

A syntactical Sony v Currys (coal)face off. Would be interesting. Don't forget also that some members are not Uk based nor have English as a first language so some slack has to be cut.

Coal and slack in a couple of sentances

 

[Andrew Everard]

laserman16:Coal and slack in a couple of sentances

Nutty...

 

[laserman16]

Andrew Everard:

laserman16:Coal and slack in a couple of sentances

Nutty...

 

[Anonymous]

after all thats been said on here , are you any the wiser badamz ???

 

[Anonymous]

Well Max - I'm a little worn out from reading it all, but I'm not very encouraged at all. I still feel there is a confusion (sometimes deliberate when I mention this in shops) between Clouding and the normal off-axis or too-bright-for-the-conditions greying that LCD has as a normal characteristic. I am not attributing any flaw or dissatisfaction to that and I am not at all interested if this problem is going to be cured by LED backlights or any other technology. I want to buy a 37inch soon as I've said, but I don't want to be going back and forth with a parade of sets. The reply from the Sony Centre has not answered me at all and I still feel that Sony does not regard something that I view as a fault as such.

It is interesting to hear of clouds fading - but I am still not exactly overwhelmed with satisfied Sony customers with WHF forum membership. The fact Currys get no complaints does not help me much as I'm sure many people are sitting with cloudy backlights (on many makes & models) and not realising that all LCDs don't have this blight. If Sony was getting a lot of returns they might do something about it, but if they are not it does not prove their TVs are all fine. My in-laws (don't get me started) watched an LG standard def 42 inch plasma for years that constantly had a horizontal update split (like a game overburdening a console) during normal viewing, but never seemed to notice. Over £3 grand and I wouldn't have given them £25 for it.

My Philips has no clouding and no lack of uniformity I can detect whatever the level I over set (if that is a term) the backlight to. It goes grey when too bright or when I move to the side (I knew it would), but no clouds or brighter patches or whatever you want to use as a term for this phenomenon are there.

I am really no nearer knowing if I walk into a shop this weekend and buy a 37inch Sony (like I want to do), whether I will be looking at a cloudy screen I cannot justify paying hundreds of pounds for. That is my issue. That is why I am banging on about this. I really am grateful to everybody for contributing (I do like English though - I don't even use a mobile (hate em'). My spelling can be a bit poor, but I have one dodgy finger after a car knocked me off my bike - so I blame that (seems to get to every corner of the keyboard that finger!)).

 

[Clare Newsome]

If you are still unsure re Sony, this 37in Panasonic LCD is excellent for the money; we gave it five stars at list price of £850, but you can get it for @£600

 

[Anonymous]

Badamz
dont know if you read my post earlyer but i went into the sony centre on my lunch explained the problem to one of the guys, i think he'd had it before but wasnt going to let on, they have agreed to swap it this thursday for me with no fuss, i cant really comment on the 37" the one i have is the 52" model, but i would not hesitate recomending it to a friend, the picture is spot on and it works a treat - except for the clouding problem i've had.

 

[Anonymous]

Can you imaging lounging the sets back and forth??? Where on average 10 customer returns 4, thats a unacceptable, and worse than xbox 360 red light of death statistics. And what happens to those sets?? They re resold to someone who can't tell the difference or as refurbished???

Its a carrying on that no one ones.I think if I saw this thread before I brought my Sony, I don't think I would have brought it!

In CRT PC diaplays in the past, they suffered from something similar but called Color Purity and Screen Brightness Uniformity. Reviewers tested them by measuring color temp and brighness at quadrants on the CRT, most had some variations but some had a perfectly uniform screen.A variation is not aways a problem....it was less noticible than a LCD, infact the measure was academic.

Buy the Phiips!

 

[nws56]

Like fido , my 52W4000 exhibited lighter patches in the top corners which disappeared after a day or so ( fact ) . Even stranger , the lousy viewing angle also improved over time ( fact ) , to the extent that 5 people can sit on the same sofa and see the same picture quality at a distance of 3 metres .

So I consider myself lucky , but I 'm not sure I'd buy ANY lcd again without the assurance of no quibble return from the dealer .

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Clare - I'll go and give the Pana' a good look over this weekend. It's just my other half prefers the look of the Sonys. She has the same concerns though.

Does an average customer really return 4 sets though? Where does this guy live? I bet he has strong arms (and worn-out shoes).

 

[matthewpiano]

This thread seems to have descended into conjecture, unsupported and unsubstantiated statistics, and insults. Its not a very good reflection of anyone to be honest.

Badamz, I'd strongly recommend visiting your local Sony Centre or other retailer and discussing your concerns with a member of the sales team. If you really do want a Sony I am quite sure that any self respecting retailer/sales person will be more than willing to take the necessary steps to secure your business. You need to have faith in the product you are buying and, even more importantly, in the retailer you are purchasing from.

Unfortunately, in asking for FACTS in your original post, you have really asked for the Holy Grail because there is a preponderance of conjecture about this issue on this forum, and too much of a tug of war going on between diametrically opposed camps.

Might I also remind everyone that neither myself or anyone else posting on these forums is doing so as a representative of Sony Centres and nothing that is said on here should be seen as an official line or response.

 

[Anonymous]

"This thread seems to have descended into conjecture, unsupported and unsubstantiated statistics, and insults. Its not a very good reflection of anyone to be honest."

Least of all, Sony!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I have no experience of Sonys other than what I have seen in the shops, but this was one reason why I went for a plasma and not an LCD. I'm no Sony hater, in fact quite the opposite.

My 2 year old samsung lcd has backlight bleed, but this only comes through in dark conditions and when there is no signal input. It doesn't affect viewing pleasure.

 

[Anonymous]

Does anyone know how happy Richer Sounds are in returning LCD sets with backlight issues?

As I mentioned earlier I'm strongly considering a KDL-40W5500 and have yet to find another set at that price point with the features and picture quality (assuming no issues, of course). I just want to get an idea about returning if I end up with a duffer.

(yes, I know I should just speak to them, but I'm not in the position to make a purchase - or be near a Richer Store - for another four weeks)

 

[matthewpiano]

I have always found Richers to be very flexible in the past. Give the store a ring and ask about their return policy in this sort of instance.

 

[Nick_Shepherd]

Right then, I am collecting WE5 40' on Thursday though dont expect to hear any news until Saturday as I have no time to look at it till then.

So I am clear, and can report back properly:

What do I look for for Clouding and what do I look for to spot bleed?

and (sonycentre / matthewpiano may know)

Does the 'hot' panel tech make any difference over the 'cold'?

Cheers!

 

[Ravey Gravey Davy]

Nick_Shepherd:

Right then, I am collecting WE5 40' on Thursday though dont expect to hear any news until Saturday as I have no time to look at it till then.

So I am clear, and can report back properly:

What do I look for for Clouding and what do I look for to spot bleed?

and (sonycentre / matthewpiano may know)

Does the 'hot' panel tech make any difference over the 'cold'?

Cheers!

You are not "looking" for anything other than a decent picture.Do not try to find fault in what your eyes maybe cannot see .Calibrate according to what you like and use the other threads on this subject to help tweak it to what you want.

 

[Anonymous]

Nick_Shepherd:
Right then, I am collecting WE5 40' on Thursday though dont expect to hear any news until Saturday as I have no time to look at it till then.

So I am clear, and can report back properly:

What do I look for for Clouding and what do I look for to spot bleed?

and (sonycentre / matthewpiano may know)

Does the 'hot' panel tech make any difference over the 'cold'?

Cheers!
hi nick , im just back from a friends house , he has a sony 46v4000 , with the backlight set to 8 , as he likes it , clouding is only visible in dark scenes in a darkened room , it appears as a slightly blue tinged patchiness in the top two corners , to my eyes its not a big deal , we turned the backlight down to 3 , ( most reviewers tend to set to this level for optimal viewing ) and the clouding was much harder too see , not a problem at all for me or him , now whfi have reviewed some sonys this year that they have said show clouding even in non dark scenes , this is not acceptable for a new tv , anyone who says it is , is talking through their xxxxx , and unless anyone wants to come on this forum and accuse whfi of lying ??? then i think its fair to conclude that some sonys are flawed , but , if you can agree to get a no quibble refund in the event of getting a poor tv ( that shouldnt be a problem seeing as sony people on here reckon its as rare as haleys comet ) then you have nothing to worry about , in my laymans opinion i still think the sony 40w5500 , and 40we5 , along with the 42inch panasonic g10 plasma are closer to their brands top tvs picturewise , at very affordable prices , than anything else out there ...

 

[matthewpiano]

Good advice. If you see something that affects your normal viewing its time to start worrying. If you don't you should just enjoy your new set.

 

[biggus_1961]

i've had a sony 40W4000 since early January 2009 with no clouding or bleed problems at all...Backlight is set to '5'

 

[Anonymous]

In a way I accept that this thread was asking for something akin to a 'holy grail', but just hearing from some happy Sony owners (like biggus_1961) justifies the thread (that's what I wanted). I have discussed this issue in shops and the replies I got merely (and I apologise in advance) clouded the issue. It still seems to be the case that persons selling Sony TVs (and probably other makes - I'm not asking about others so I don't know) immediately say it is a matter of calibration, whereas WHF and some owners say it can be there all the time. Both cannot be correct, but only one is trying to sell me something.

I have not spoken to any retailer who is willing to accept my standards for defining a Sony backlight fault-free (I'm just given the calibration mantra and a rather dismissive tone in certain department stores) and nothing that has been posted on here has diminished my worries. I would not have started this if I were not wanting to buy one and I do appreciate anybody who has shared their appraisal of their own TVs, but the numbers are very low. Happy Sony TV owners (on the whole) do not seem to the forum type

It would be nice if (like many others) I could put my doubts to bed, but maybe all I can do (as has been pointed out) is go in to the Sony Centre and say I want a TV, but if has clouding I want a refund. If they accept this - I get one, if not I walk away and forget Sony as a maker of TVs. Somehow I don't think it is that simple and nobody from a Sony Centre has come on here and said I can do that.

 

[Anonymous]

It would be nice if (like many others) I could put my doubts to bed,
but maybe all I can do (as has been pointed out) is go in to the Sony
Centre and say I want a TV, but if has clouding I want a refund. If
they accept this - I get one, if not I walk away and forget Sony as a
maker of TVs. Somehow I don't think it is that simple and nobody from a
Sony Centre has come on here and said I can do that..............if the people that work in sonycentres are confident of the quality of their tvs , why cant they accept this understanding with the customer ???????????????????????? mathew ?? sonycentre ??? is that not a fair request ??

 

[ElectroMan]

You could try asking for a demo under the conditions you'll be viewing in - or try another dealer, not just the Sony Centre (which is an independent franchise).

Or buy by mail order and use the distance selling regulations which let you return anything bought by mail order/internet/phone within 7 days without even having to give a reason!

 

[Anonymous]

all true , but the question is , will sonycentres refund if a customer finds excessive clouding ? i dont see why not ? then badamz and others like him can buy without worry ...which im sure he will agree is all he wants ....

 

[matthewpiano]

maxflinn:It would be nice if (like many others) I could put my doubts to bed,
but maybe all I can do (as has been pointed out) is go in to the Sony
Centre and say I want a TV, but if has clouding I want a refund. If
they accept this - I get one, if not I walk away and forget Sony as a
maker of TVs. Somehow I don't think it is that simple and nobody from a
Sony Centre has come on here and said I can do that..............if the people that work in sonycentres are confident of the quality of their tvs , why cant they accept this understanding with the customer ???????????????????????? mathew ?? sonycentre ??? is that not a fair request ??

Fair request and if Badamz is local to me he is more than welcome to come and see me. However, and particularly where the buyer has reservations, I would strongly urge anyone to buy locally and so, obviously, I may not be able to help in this instance. Also I don't want to appear to be advertising or arranging business through the forum - it is against the rules. As has already been pointed out Sony Centres are run by independent retailers. We run two in Lancashire, but there are other companies running them throughout the country and I would like to think that they are able to offer the same assurances and service as us, particularly since Sony UK have worked very hard this year to ensure consistency across the estate.