Sony & Clouds. Somebody share your FACTS.

[Anonymous]

I find it baffling that there is no official statement to come from any Official Sony subsidary affiliates in whatever part of the world on this subject.The question is whether the clouding issue on those Sony LCDs is a technical fault as in a dead pixel, the latter more prevalent with LCD PC displays. Dell's position is that 3 or more irregular pixels warrant an exchange, less than that No!

There are also no official press release or statement that says the clouding issue is a technical fault from Sony Centre either.

This silence from the manufacturer and Sony Centre is what is causing this thread to drag on. It needs a resolution and an official analysis of the problem. So SC, do something about this? Reputation is at stake.

What Hi Fi have served the public interest greatly by alerting this issue of the backlight problem to us and if not we would have those problematic sets in our homes....totally unaware! They have done their jobs for their magazine subscriptions worth

SC, do yours or change the retail brand name! Its no good having a man working in Sony Centre posting here giving his own analysis which carries no Official weight to the subject.

I recall when the Xbox 360 and more recently the PS3 [yellow light of death of 60gig units] showed up as picked up by the media, it was investigated and official worldwide action taken to resolve it.

Sony have made no worldwide declaration on the clouding and backlight issue, so far or have they?? Legally it is henceforth not a fault of any design or manufacturing.

I like to know from SC, what happens to those sets returned by customers with backlite bleeds?

 

[sonycentre]

Flatscreen,sony would post a statement on there uk or worldwide website if they thought it was needed.Look at my other post when i spoke to sony tech for there reply,As well as selling our tvs i also del and install them and i have never come across a sony s.v.w or z series with bleeding.just had one kdl40w4000 set last christmas.witch we gladly exchanged.It seems that when a few problems a brought to bear everyone seems quick to punish.or if anyone has issues www.sony.co.uk/bravia look on there under tech support.

 

[Anonymous]

sonycentre:
Flatscreen,sony would post a statement on there uk or worldwide website if they thought it was needed.Look at my other post when i spoke to sony tech for there reply,As well as selling our tvs i also del and install them and i have never come across a sony s.v.w or z series with bleeding.just had one kdl40w4000 set last christmas.witch we gladly exchanged.It seems that when a few problems a brought to bear everyone seems quick to punish.or if anyone has issues www.sony.co.uk/bravia look on there under tech support.
have you read whfis reviews of this years sony range ?? click reviews , tvs , and sony .. read them all and then come back and say you only know of ONE sony with bleed ... dont you even have the intellect to see how stupid it is continuously declaring on this site that bleed is not a problem on sony tvs ?? i mean , honestly , dont you ??

 

[sonycentre]

Yes i have seen all the reviews,and i can only go on what i have sold and seen.as i say i set a load of these tvs in-store and at consumers homes.And i have not seen any probs,i would not lie if i saw a problem then i would report it to sony and on this forum.in my other posts i have contacted sony tech and had a very long conversation with them.Ans as stated on other areas on this forum its not just sony with apparent problems.Sony has been in this trade for a very long time.if it was common place then i know that a statement would be made.But when you take stock of all the sony tvs that are turned over maybe its a small amount that have the backlight issue.I own both a kdl32v2000 and a kdl32d3000 and have no problems with backlight bleed.but my tvs have been set up as i like them and not on vivid mode where everything is maxed out.

 

[Anonymous]

why only go on what you have sold and seen ?? have you not read all the other posts on here and other forums , from people unhappy with their sony tvs , all the posts from people wanting to know what sony considers excessive clouding , bleed ? badamz , nick shepard , and others , who had concerns , all the reviews not just on this site but elswhere that talk of excessive clouding on sonys , most also say that while clouding can be a problem with lcds it is sony sets that suffer most ..

the people who read these forums are most likely to have read all of the above , prospective sony buyers too , in light of this how long more are you going to keep stating that you have only seen ONE problematic tv ?? even if thats all YOU have seen ( which i doubt ) it just doesnt sound credible , ive seen 3 sonys with clouding ,two of my friends tvs and another in a house i was working in , my mams sony is perfect , along with a few others ive seen , whfi has found clouding issues with about 75% of this years review sonys , other review sites im not allowed to mention have found clouding to be a problem on sony tvs this year and last ,

the thing people wanting to buy a sony want to hear is that they will get a no quibble refund if they find problems .. that shouldnt be a problem for sony if they are confident of their tvs quality , should it ??

coming on here constantly ignoring what everybody else is reading , is just being in denial , and surely you can see , counter productive . in fact if i was involved with sony , id be hoping you would just stop posting in their defence , its starting to look embarresing and desperate ...

 

[matthewpiano]

Absolutely NOTHING is going to be achieved with this thread.

If you actually have a Sony TV and are unhappy with any aspect of its performance you should deal directly with your original retailer.

If you are in the market for a new TV and would like to buy a Sony but have reservations look for a dealer/retailer who has professional pride in their job and who is prepared to take the time to discuss your needs and concerns and provide the assurances you need. There are plenty of excellent retailers out there, both Sony Centres and other independent specialists, and they are there to help.

If you don't have a Sony TV and have no intention of buying one, why would you even get involved with this thread?

 

[Anonymous]

matthewpiano:Absolutely NOTHING is going to be achieved with this thread.

If you actually have a Sony TV and are unhappy with any aspect of its performance you should deal directly with your original retailer.

If you are in the market for a new TV and would like to buy a Sony but have reservations look for a dealer/retailer who has professional pride in their job and who is prepared to take the time to discuss your needs and concerns and provide the assurances you need. There are plenty of excellent retailers out there, both Sony Centres and other independent specialists, and they are there to help.

If you don't have a Sony TV and have no intention of buying one, why would you even get involved with this thread?why would you get involved in this thread ?? i mean you personally mathew ..

 

[matthewpiano]

Quite obvious really. I got involved because selling these products puts the bread and butter on my table and I have a great deal of belief in the products I sell. Furthermore, if I can be of help to anyone with real concerns then that is surely in everyone's interests.

However, I'm pulling away from this topic now. It mostly seems to be the same small group of people going round and round in circles and its not helping anyone. I believe my advice about dealing directly with a good retailer is the best possible advice and I have every confidence that there are many many retailers out there who will provide the support, demonstrations, information, and assurances that customers and prospective customers deserve.

 

[Anonymous]

this thread wouldnt exist if sony tvs were cloud free , then you may have more bread and butter on the table , anyway i have no desire to argue with your good self , and i apologise to sonycentre , maybe my comments were a bit strong , people can judge for themselves if this thread is helpful or not , my constant involvement in it is not because of any hidden agenda , just that i dont like to think of people getting the wool pulled over their eyes , and boredom , maybe too much of the latter , so i too will stay out of it for a while , and let others have their say ...

 

[Andrew Everard]

The thread is becoming sufficiently unedifying and circular to be locked, but I really don't want to feed the trolls who'd suggest we're covering up a problem, even if the reviews on this site show otherwise.

So for now it stands...

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Andrew. I began this thread because I really wanted to get some feedback from actual Sony TV owners - no other reason really. I'm glad that several such owners have provided this and I aknowledged the genuine contribution I felt certain persons who sell Sony TVs have made as well.

I agree with you 100% though and the whole thing is now in a flat spin (and maybe a downward spiral) and I don't think I can add anything more than to thank WHF for the opportunity to at least post my original question (though looking at it now - it looks like a demand).

 

[Anonymous]

Badamz, The users report on the clouding issue on Sonys are as real as the What Hi report substantiated by research. Till Sony officially declares on the users and the media reports.....as you say the topic will be in a flatspin.Its a thread that needs to arrive at an exit somepoint with some endorsed consensus on the conclusions AND with the manufacturers input.

There is no proper discussion without Sony's input here. MatthewPiano's view or 'Sony techs,' sincere as they maybe is no subsitute as it 'legally' doesn't count as a Sony LCD division rebuttal.

I got a feeling the content of the thread will remain a one sided affair and lose momentum anyway.....it will swallow itself as if it never existed.

Conversly, the PS3's recent [yellow light of death as penned by the media], where 0.5% of the 60 gig shipment models two years back have bricked....Sony's rebuttal here was swifty and robustly defended the product without design flaws that caused the breakdown.Now that's a debate that will go on!

 

[fido87456]

sonycentre:
Flatscreen,sony would post a statement on there uk or worldwide website if they thought it was needed.Look at my other post when i spoke to sony tech for there reply,As well as selling our tvs i also del and install them and i have never come across a sony s.v.w or z series with bleeding.just had one kdl40w4000 set last christmas.witch we gladly exchanged.It seems that when a few problems a brought to bear everyone seems quick to punish.or if anyone has issues www.sony.co.uk/bravia look on there under tech support.

You say 'never', and then you say 'just had one'... so which is it?

Aside from that though, unless you were delivering and installing the TV's at night and then dimming the lights significantly to watch a movie with dark scenes in you would be hard pushed to see any backlight bleed or clouding even if the set you had just installed had the problem.

 

[ElectroMan]

I've resisted adding this thread so far, but my resistance is weak ...

On my set, in an almost totally darkened room (just a candle or two and the glow of my smoking pipe!), then with no input some minor patchiness can be seen.

But this is rarely noticeable when watching a DVD/BD, (and on the best discs it's not noticeable at all, so the quality of the source may have some effect) - and never a problem when playing games!

 

[Nick_Shepherd]

As some know, I have had a Sony 40WE5 for about a week. I though i saw clouding at first, now im not sure.

So, I am getting a BD player this weekend and over the next week or two will watch as much as i can. SD, HD , BD, Sport and in all light conditions. I do watch films late, and in a dark room.

I will report back in a new thread when I have given this set a proper road test!!!

So if you bear with me, I will, as a new Sony TV owner, report back my FACTS, as the OP requested.

 

[Anonymous]

I've been the proud owner of a Sony 40W5500 for 7 days now. In terms of clouding, the top corners of the screen have slight light bleed but only on an empty black screen. It is none existent when an image is on the screen, even when viewing a film with black bars above and below so as I'm sure you'll agree it has no effect on my picture quality at all. The clouding on my previous Panasonic was terrible in comparison.

I've upgraded from a Panasonic 37LZD70 and although I knew the Sony would be better and I was expecting good performance too, it has completely exceeded my expectations. The blacks are the best I've seen on an LCD to date and the motion for me is superb.

I know picture settings are specific per person because of watching environment but I'll post mine below for those interested -

Backlight - 5

Contrast - 60

Brightness - 49

Colour - 50

Colour Temp - Neutral

Sharpness - Min

Noise Reduction - Off

MPEG Noise Reduction - Off

Motionflow - Standard

Film Mode - Auto 1

All advanced settings are set to Off and Gamma is set to Standard.

I'd appreciate any feedback from any other Sony 40W5500 users as to any settings they would change, thanks guys!

 

[Anonymous]

Ok I'm finally going to step into the furore that is Sony and Clouding!

I have been following this issue very closely as I've recently been in the market for a new T.V. Despite all of the negative comments on these forums about the clouding issues with Sony T.V.'s I decided to risk it and buy a Sony 40 Z4500 (yes the one that no-one has been associating with clouding - unless I'm missing something).

Guess what? Yup I had clouding issues from all 4 corners. So I sent that one back and recieved another Sony Z4500 which in short was worse than the 1st one. So I took that one back to the retailer and bought the 42 inch Philips. One word. Stunning!

So to all the people out these thinking of buying a Sony. I wanted one as genuinely thought they are among the best T.V.'s out there. I thought I risk it and maybe get lucky with a cloud free version. I wasn't that lucky. Whether or not you think its worth it, my advise is this. If you have your heart set on a Sony, buy from a respected retailer and keep the receipt. They have to take it back within 28 days under the Statutory Sale of Goods Act - so at least you are covered there.

 

[Big Chris]

My In-Laws took delivery of their 46V5500 on Friday, so like the wonderful son-in-law I am, I went round and set it all up for them.

In the couple of hours after setting it up we were there watching it, I saw no signs of any clouding.

However, like my Parent's 40V4500 (again, no clouding) I reckon my ancient V40A12U has the edge when it comes to freeview picture (my parents think so too). I've also noticed that Sky boxes don't have the best tuners, as the integrated freeview tuner on both these newer sets was much sharper than the Sky.

 

[ElectroMan]

kirbs_85:If you have your heart set on a Sony, buy from a respected retailer and keep the receipt. They have to take it back within 28 days under the Statutory Sale of Goods Act - so at least you are covered there.

Only if it's damaged, faulty or not fit for purpose, and you may have to argue the point as Sony don't acknowledge backlight bleed as a problem!

If you buy by mail order (online, phone or whatever), then you are covered by the Distance Selling Regulations, and have the right to return anything within 7 days, without having to give a reason.

 

[Anonymous]

ElectroMan:

If you buy by mail order (online, phone or whatever), then you are covered by the Distance Selling Regulations, and have the right to return anything within 7 days, without having to give a reason.

IMHO thats over simplifying it. Usually thats accompanied by "unopened, seals intact, original packaging" etc etc.

Recently I wanted to return a 1 day old AV Receiver to Amazon as faulty. Now I thought they were one of the best for returns, but they made me call the Sony Helpline and only when they agreed it was faulty (and gave me an incident number) would Amazon OK a return.

Anyway, I have three Sony LCD's and haven't noticed "clouding" with any of them especially the newest a 46W5500 which seems to have a bad reputation for this.

My own belief that these threads justifiably sprout up on different Forums and the net result is either people are put off the purchase altogether (I nearly fell into that category) or when they do purchase purposely look for clouding with binoculars or a magnifying glass. No doubt even I looked for it more more closely than I would have but couldn't see any.

Personally I would say Sony are no better or worse than other manufacturers regarding "Clouding".

 

[Anonymous]

WilliamYZFR1:ElectroMan:

If you buy by mail order (online, phone or whatever), then you are covered by the Distance Selling Regulations, and have the right to return anything within 7 days, without having to give a reason.

IMHO thats over simplifying it. Usually thats accompanied by "unopened, seals intact, original packaging" etc etc.

Where did you find that. All I saw was the following:

Exceptions to the right to cancel
13. - (1) Unless the parties have agreed otherwise, the consumer will not have the right to cancel the contract by giving notice of cancellation pursuant to regulation 10 in respect of contracts -

• (a) for the supply of services if the supplier has complied with regulation 8(3) and performance of the contract has begun with the consumer's agreement before the end of the cancellation period applicable under regulation 12;
  
  (b) for the supply of goods or services the price of which is dependent on fluctuations in the financial market which cannot be controlled by the supplier;
  
  (c) for the supply of goods made to the consumer's specifications or clearly personalised or which by reason of their nature cannot be returned or are liable to deteriorate or expire rapidly;
  
  (d) for the supply of audio or video recordings or computer software if they are unsealed by the consumer;
  
  (e) for the supply of newspapers, periodicals or magazines; or
  
  (f) for gaming, betting or lottery services.ANDRestoration of goods by consumer after cancellation
  17. - (1) This regulation applies where a contract is cancelled under regulation 10 after the consumer has acquired possession of any goods under the contract other than any goods mentioned in regulation 13(1)(b) to (e).
  
  (2) The consumer shall be treated as having been under a duty throughout the period prior to cancellation -
  
  • (a) to retain possession of the goods, and
    
    (b) to take reasonable care of them.
    
  
  (3) On cancellation, the consumer shall be under a duty to restore the goods to the supplier in accordance with this regulation, and in the meanwhile to retain possession of the goods and take reasonable care of them.
  
  Although, it may be possible for the seller to introduce terms into the contract to the effect that the items must be unopened, but, as far as I can tell, the regulations themselves don't specify this except for recordings and software.
  

 

[ElectroMan]

There's a lengthy document here about the Distance Selling Regulations, which are an EU Directive. I don't think sellers can add extra conditions. It even states that a customer who has assembled a self-assembly item can still return it provided they have taken reasonable care of it!

WilliamYZFR1, I think you may have had a better result with Amazon by just saying you didn't want the item (although if they subsequently found it was faulty that could have caused complications).