Im still waiting for WHF's post calibration settings for the 40W4500..iv tried so many over and over again even with THX but still not 100% happy with the tv..its a great TV but the 5* award has me wondering that it still has more to offer...
Clare Newsome:
mikey2008:The SD picture isn't great. I have Sky HD connected to 40W4500 and the SD picture is only bearable about 3m away. The only thing you can do is upgrade to Sky HD and watch the HD content which is much, much better than the SD pictures. Also, as you mention, the upscaled DVD pictures don't look that good either (from Sony S350 BD player).
Well my Dad has exactly the same set-up (40W4500; S350; Sky HD) and the set looks superb on all but the lowest-bitrate SD Sky channels (ie almost anything ITV) - that's a broadcasting issue, not an issue with the Sony set.
And have you got the Sony BD player or the TV doing the upscaling (ditto the Sky box) - in both cases we found the set a better upscaler in his set-up.
Also, i'd strongly suggest turning off the sharpening mode right down (can worsen digital noise in poor broadcasts) and experimenting with MotionFlow settings rather than leaving them as default.
Decent cabling helps, too, of course....
I have played a lot with SD settings but I still can't recommend the SD picture beyond saying it's okay. I have the sharpness at minimum and the MotionFlow is at Standard (or Off, but it doesn't make a lot of difference in SD). I don't have cheap cables (30 quid) either (although best steer clear of that argument here) I just think that the SD, relative to HD, isn't great.
mikey2008:The SD picture isn't great. I have Sky HD connected to 40W4500 and the SD picture is only bearable about 3m away. The only thing you can do is upgrade to Sky HD and watch the HD content which is much, much better than the SD pictures. Also, as you mention, the upscaled DVD pictures don't look that good either (from Sony S350 BD player).
Well my Dad has exactly the same set-up (40W4500; S350; Sky HD) and the set looks superb on all but the lowest-bitrate SD Sky channels (ie almost anything ITV) - that's a broadcasting issue, not an issue with the Sony set.
And have you got the Sony BD player or the TV doing the upscaling (ditto the Sky box) - in both cases we found the set a better upscaler in his set-up.
Also, i'd strongly suggest turning off the sharpening mode right down (can worsen digital noise in poor broadcasts) and experimenting with MotionFlow settings rather than leaving them as default.
Decent cabling helps, too, of course....
I have played a lot with SD settings but I still can't recommend the SD picture beyond saying it's okay. I have the sharpness at minimum and the MotionFlow is at Standard (or Off, but it doesn't make a lot of difference in SD). I don't have cheap cables (30 quid) either (although best steer clear of that argument here) I just think that the SD, relative to HD, isn't great.
Is the THX optimiser on DVD for SD only or will it optimise for HD also? Also whats the purpose of the backlight exactly. Seems to make blacks grey. Even on min blacks look grey.
you wouldnt have a picture without the backlight...LCD panels are a bit like a picture slide and your backlight shines through and makes it visable
regarding ur review of the 40w4500 , u give vague settings , passed on by sony , to try to alleviate clouding and backlight bleed problems which a disturbingly large amount of sets seem to have .. surely this tvs rating should go down , i understand the ones u have are fine ,, but given that many people have succesfully got refunds , sony are admitting to real problems that need more than the backlight being turned down to fix..... its just papering over the cracks , people deserve better , i like ur reviews and site generally , but saying something is black (pardon the pun ) when its clearly white , does not a good reviewer make....
So you're asking our reviewers to report on things they didn't see?
We've reported and highlighted the problems as well as the successes and now it needs to be up to individual consumers.
We've reported and highlighted the problems as well as the successes and now it needs to be up to individual consumers.
I think if whf had posted their setting ages ago, this would have sorted the problem out for ppl who have only a little but still noticeable clouding.
And I just ordered mine today...whathifi's review influenced me greatly...in addition to other reserach tho...I hope I do no regret not getting the Panasonic 46PZ81B instead!
maxflinn:regarding ur review of the 40w4500 , u give vague settings , passed on by sony , to try to alleviate clouding and backlight bleed problems which a disturbingly large amount of sets seem to have .. surely this tvs rating should go down , i understand the ones u have are fine ,, but given that many people have succesfully got refunds , sony are admitting to real problems that need more than the backlight being turned down to fix..... its just papering over the cracks , people deserve better , i like ur reviews and site generally , but saying something is black (pardon the pun ) when its clearly white , does not a good reviewer make....
Exactly, but WHF could never admit they were wrong because their credibility would bomb.,
Exactly, but WHF could never admit they were wrong because their credibility would bomb.,
Martin Gman:Exactly, but WHF could never admit they were wrong because their credibility would bomb.
No, we won't admit we were wrong because our experience of various sets - review samples, shop demo models and those close to us have bought in normal retail outlets - suggests, as we have now said so many times, that the problems afflict only a limited number of units, and none that we have seen. Had we seen the problem, we would have reported it - as it is, we have reported in online reviews that some have reported such problems.
If you feel there is a problem, then your beef is really with Sony, and not with us - we've simply reported it as we've seen it.
We have nothing to hide - as evidenced by the fact that we're happy to let you keep this thread grinding on with almost unfeasible tenacity.
No, we won't admit we were wrong because our experience of various sets - review samples, shop demo models and those close to us have bought in normal retail outlets - suggests, as we have now said so many times, that the problems afflict only a limited number of units, and none that we have seen. Had we seen the problem, we would have reported it - as it is, we have reported in online reviews that some have reported such problems.
If you feel there is a problem, then your beef is really with Sony, and not with us - we've simply reported it as we've seen it.
We have nothing to hide - as evidenced by the fact that we're happy to let you keep this thread grinding on with almost unfeasible tenacity.
matthewpiano
Well-known member
The internet forums are not really a reliable indicator that 'disturbingly large' numbers of sets have been afflicted with the backlight issues. Internet threads such as this generally only attract those who are not satisfied with their purchase - those who are quite happy are generally spending their time enjoying their new set. Exactly the same happens with cars.
We have sold the W4500 in large numbers and in all sizes and have not received ONE complaint about backlight issues from a customer.
I can understand that this issue must be irritating for those suffering with it and I sincerely hope anyone who has had major issues has had them rectified, but there are quite simply no grounds for making assumptions about this being a massively extensive issue.
We have sold the W4500 in large numbers and in all sizes and have not received ONE complaint about backlight issues from a customer.
I can understand that this issue must be irritating for those suffering with it and I sincerely hope anyone who has had major issues has had them rectified, but there are quite simply no grounds for making assumptions about this being a massively extensive issue.
On the flip side of that theres also a large amount of people who have backlight bleed and dont notice it! my mates got himself a 40v3000 and it has backlight bleed of which he's compleatly oblivious too, and im saying nothing as he has had it a while and it would almost certainly dampen his bombfire a little. Im of the mind set it's more common than poeple think but it largly goes unnoticed. I have 4 lcd screens in my house 2 laptops one desktop and Tv in the bedroom and they all have backlight bleed to one extent or the other! As did my 40w2000 i sold a little while ago.....
garethwd:On the flip side of that theres also a large amount of people who have backlight bleed and dont notice it! my mates got himself a 40v3000 and it has backlight bleed of which he's compleatly oblivious too, and im saying nothing as he has had it a while and it would almost certainly dampen his bombfire a little. Im of the mind set it's more common than poeple think but it largly goes unnoticed. I have 4 lcd screens in my house 2 laptops one desktop and Tv in the bedroom and they all have backlight bleed to one extent or the other! As did my 40w2000 i sold a little while ago.....
Exactly!
Exactly!
ElectroMan
Well-known member
But surely a 'large amount' of people have their televisions (CRT or LCD, heck, even plasma) on the default factory settings - far from optimum.
A few years ago some friends were going to ditch their large-screen Sony CRT because the picture had turned purple at the sides. I suggested they move the large Aiwa speakers next to the screen, and turn it off (not just on standby). A week or so later the picture was back to normal! The point being that they had happily watched it like that for ages (plus the colour setting was too high, etc).
Some other friends have a Panasonic plasma, and I they have not optomised it (they even watch 4:3 sources stretched to fill the screen).
I think it's like cameras, or computers, for example, where most people don't know how to get the most out of them, and probably don't actually care, so long as they work.
If backlight bleed goes unnoticed, then it's not really a problem if it isn't noticed. If garethwd's friend is oblivious, but happy, then that's good, isn't it?
A few years ago some friends were going to ditch their large-screen Sony CRT because the picture had turned purple at the sides. I suggested they move the large Aiwa speakers next to the screen, and turn it off (not just on standby). A week or so later the picture was back to normal! The point being that they had happily watched it like that for ages (plus the colour setting was too high, etc).
Some other friends have a Panasonic plasma, and I they have not optomised it (they even watch 4:3 sources stretched to fill the screen).
I think it's like cameras, or computers, for example, where most people don't know how to get the most out of them, and probably don't actually care, so long as they work.
If backlight bleed goes unnoticed, then it's not really a problem if it isn't noticed. If garethwd's friend is oblivious, but happy, then that's good, isn't it?
Yes it is good my friend is oblivious! and for many people backlight bleed isnt a problem as its rarely noticable but that still doesnt really excuse premium tv's being affected by it! I bought a cheapy tescos tv for the bedroom and the bleed is pretty bad but i kinda except it becouse its a cheap tv as i except my puter monitors havin bleed too, But bleed on a tv i paid nearly two grand for????
garethwd:But bleed on a tv i paid nearly two grand for????
Exactly my point. It's dispicible that sony don't see this as a problem, truly horrendous. Typical of a big name electrical giant not to listen to it's customers.
Exactly my point. It's dispicible that sony don't see this as a problem, truly horrendous. Typical of a big name electrical giant not to listen to it's customers.
fair enough , all the sets you have seen may well be faultless , and i know how good they are when problem free , ive seen them in a few shops showing hd material and they are great , but the point is , from what i can gather , sony and the tv retailers seem to be passing the buck between each other when a customer complains about a set , i have read this on many forums , why ?? thats my gripe , if theres a bad batch out there then why doesnt sony do a recall ?? aka car manufacturers , or , tell the retailers to give a no quibble refund or replacement , its not like theres a con being pulled on sony , or shops , the tvs are either perfect or not ... theres nothing as frustrating as spending 1400 euros (as i am thinking of doing ) on a premium product ,, then maybe having to wait 2 to 3 weeks for ascessment ,, repair ... as i have read that some people have had to do , you wouldnt choose a builder (for example) if you heard they do 8 great jobs but theres 2 that are all hassle , would you ?? , i have bought sony for 15 years without even considering any other brands , but their handling of this tvs issues has made me think twice , and a panny 50 inch freesat tv might be the result , havnt read one problem about them ... sorry to rant on , its not whf problem i know , but if i was rounding off your review , i would say , fantastic tv , that would get ten out of ten , were it not for the risk (however small) of getting one of the problem affected ones , that sony seem to have allowed to slip through the quality control net .......
professorhat
Well-known member
It's a Sony. True to form.
Ahem, plasma, ahem...
Does Sony advertise a lot in WHF??? That makes a lot more sense to me than WHF getting two W4500's in that somehow defy their nature as an LCD...
Ahem, plasma, ahem...
Does Sony advertise a lot in WHF??? That makes a lot more sense to me than WHF getting two W4500's in that somehow defy their nature as an LCD...
I just wonder where are the threads highlighting litanies of problems with Pannys and Pio's are. Where are the throngs of dissatisfied P-Machine owners????
Why is public opinion seemingly so at odds with the party line?
Why is public opinion seemingly so at odds with the party line?
Well, I tend to believe that forums are not such a good indication of how reliable a particular piece of equipment is, for a very simple reason:
Mostly people who post threads on forums are people who are having problem. For every piece of equipment on any forum anywhere, you'll only have a very very small percentage of post from people who are very happy with their purchase want to share it with the world.
I believe a reason why there are so many post about ÿthe W4500 series is that it has proved extremely popular, both because of it's quality, and the excellent marks it got in reviews throughout.
Maybe it's a little harsh to have a go at WHF for their review of this range. A quick look in google will show at least 5 other Hifi/Electronics review websites which give an equally positive rating to this set.
ÿFurthermore, I purchased and received a 40W4500 yesterday after much hesitation, many visits in shops, and a lot of time spent on forums such as this one. When it arrived and I switched it on, I was terrified at the idea of seeing the dreaded Clouds and Backlight. I spent 2 hours in the dark trying to fault it. And you know what? No problem. No clouds, no Backlight bleed, nothing!
One cannot dismiss the impact of mass paranoia. And while I do believe some sets have problems (and as a normal person with a limited budget for that kind of luxury, I very much sympathize with unhappy customers such as the gentleman from holland who started this thread), I do believe that this problem affects aÿminorityÿof W4500. If you spend ages on forums like this, then spend hours trying to find problems with a TV, Blue RAy, or any other product for that matter, you will find faults, issues, little niggles, some of which might just be in your head.
I spent some time on the phone which a bunch of retailers (all of which are awaiting stocks) and only found one shop who acknowledged they had to replace a set. While I know that retailers may not be the most truthfull source of information, I also believe they wouldn't re-order a range that keeps coming back with problems.
Finally, I don't believe there is such a thing as anÿunbiasedÿÿreview. So before you splash out £1000 plus on something based on what some guy wrote somewhere, it's worth going to check out the beast in person.
Tÿ
Mostly people who post threads on forums are people who are having problem. For every piece of equipment on any forum anywhere, you'll only have a very very small percentage of post from people who are very happy with their purchase want to share it with the world.
I believe a reason why there are so many post about ÿthe W4500 series is that it has proved extremely popular, both because of it's quality, and the excellent marks it got in reviews throughout.
Maybe it's a little harsh to have a go at WHF for their review of this range. A quick look in google will show at least 5 other Hifi/Electronics review websites which give an equally positive rating to this set.
ÿFurthermore, I purchased and received a 40W4500 yesterday after much hesitation, many visits in shops, and a lot of time spent on forums such as this one. When it arrived and I switched it on, I was terrified at the idea of seeing the dreaded Clouds and Backlight. I spent 2 hours in the dark trying to fault it. And you know what? No problem. No clouds, no Backlight bleed, nothing!
One cannot dismiss the impact of mass paranoia. And while I do believe some sets have problems (and as a normal person with a limited budget for that kind of luxury, I very much sympathize with unhappy customers such as the gentleman from holland who started this thread), I do believe that this problem affects aÿminorityÿof W4500. If you spend ages on forums like this, then spend hours trying to find problems with a TV, Blue RAy, or any other product for that matter, you will find faults, issues, little niggles, some of which might just be in your head.
I spent some time on the phone which a bunch of retailers (all of which are awaiting stocks) and only found one shop who acknowledged they had to replace a set. While I know that retailers may not be the most truthfull source of information, I also believe they wouldn't re-order a range that keeps coming back with problems.
Finally, I don't believe there is such a thing as anÿunbiasedÿÿreview. So before you splash out £1000 plus on something based on what some guy wrote somewhere, it's worth going to check out the beast in person.
Tÿ
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