Many problems Sony 46W4500

[matthewpiano]

raypalmer:It's a Sony. True to form.

Ahem, plasma, ahem...

Does Sony advertise a lot in WHF??? That makes a lot more sense to me than WHF getting two W4500's in that somehow defy their nature as an LCD...

With all due respect, I think thats out of order. WHFS&V have responded to such allegations in full and given completely convincing answers. Sony don't advertise much in the mag anyway!

Every TV engineer I speak to still says that, overall, Sony make the most reliable sets and that they see far more issues with Panasonic in both LCD and plasma.

LCD is not perfect technology, but neither is plasma. If either was, the current developments in backlight technology (Dynamic RGB LED) and OLED screens would not be taking place. LCD is no more inherently flawed than plasma and the vast majority of sets do not suffer from backlight issues, whether Sony or any other quality brand.

At the end of the day, all this LCD versus plasma stuff is rubbish. BOTH technologies are capable of quite stunning results (look at Pioneer's plasmas or Sony's 46X4500 LCD for evidence)and, as such, there is far too much obsession with the technology. Forget the technology and look at the picture. Whichever set you prefer the picture of, whether its LCD or plasma, Sony or another brand - well, thats the one for you.

 

[Clare Newsome]

raypalmer:I just wonder where are the threads highlighting litanies of problems with Pannys and Pio's are. Where are the throngs of dissatisfied P-Machine owners????

Why is public opinion seemingly so at odds with the party line?

Sigh. There is no party line. There is no link between advertising and editorial (and we slate plenty of other Sony products). We've encouraged friends and family to buy Sony sets - because we believe you can buy no better at 40/46in - and they've been fine, too.

Want some threads of people with problems with other brands of set. Here you go - all found in seconds via the Search Forums button.

http://whathifi.com/forums/t/50155.aspx

http://whathifi.com/forums/t/141563.aspx

http://whathifi.com/forums/t/85168.aspx

http://whathifi.com/forums/t/50828.aspx

http://whathifi.com/forums/t/57317.aspx

http://whathifi.com/forums/t/117101.aspx

http://whathifi.com/forums/t/152901.aspx

http://whathifi.com/forums/t/39853.aspx

And there are more - about Blu-ray players, faulty receivers, CD player problems. The sad fact is that Consumer Electronics - like any consumer product - aren't build to 100 percent perfection. And the more popular the product, statisitcally the more duff units you're gonna get. That's the same from cars to kettles.

Should Sony perhaps have better quality control? IMO, yes. Should they have reacted better to this situation? Definitely.

The fact remains that when you see one of these sets in full flow, properly set up, it's glorious.

 

[Andrew Everard]

raypalmer:Does Sony advertise a lot in WHF???

No, not that much...

It seems more inclined to spend its money on TV ads, sponsorship of the F1 coverage last year, and, to quote a recent press release from the company,

"a one-off unique light installation which incorporated all four [new Bravia] models at The Tramshed in East London.

"The installation, a concept created by artist Paul Cocksedge, titled 'R.G.B' shined a red, a green and a blue light separately from one side of the venue. All three lights meet at a white dot upon which the four new BRAVIA LCD televisions will hang above. The light concept is based on R.G.B lights within televisions.

"Celebrities, influencers, the public and media were invited to witness the unique creation on show for one day only."

 

[Clare Newsome]

I've just checked with our commercial team, and the company who took by far the most TV advertising with WHF last year were.. LG. Who in that time only received one five star TV rating from us (which subsequently got taken down to four with newer competition against it) and an awful lot of lower-starred reviews.

 

[rob_981]

shnex:

Well, I tend to believe that forums are not such a good indication of how reliable a particular piece of equipment is, for a very simple reason:

Mostly people who post threads on forums are people who are having problem. For every piece of equipment on any forum anywhere, you'll only have a very very small percentage of post from people who are very happy with their purchase want to share it with the world.

I believe a reason why there are so many post about the W4500 series is that it has proved extremely popular, both because of it's quality, and the excellent marks it got in reviews throughout.

Maybe it's a little harsh to have a go at WHF for their review of this range. A quick look in google will show at least 5 other Hifi/Electronics review websites which give an equally positive rating to this set.

Furthermore, I purchased and received a 40W4500 yesterday after much hesitation, many visits in shops, and a lot of time spent on forums such as this one. When it arrived and I switched it on, I was terrified at the idea of seeing the dreaded Clouds and Backlight. I spent 2 hours in the dark trying to fault it. And you know what? No problem. No clouds, no Backlight bleed, nothing!

One cannot dismiss the impact of mass paranoia. And while I do believe some sets have problems (and as a normal person with a limited budget for that kind of luxury, I very much sympathize with unhappy customers such as the gentleman from holland who started this thread), I do believe that this problem affects a minority of W4500. If you spend ages on forums like this, then spend hours trying to find problems with a TV, Blue RAy, or any other product for that matter, you will find faults, issues, little niggles, some of which might just be in your head.

I spent some time on the phone which a bunch of retailers (all of which are awaiting stocks) and only found one shop who acknowledged they had to replace a set. While I know that retailers may not be the most truthfull source of information, I also believe they wouldn't re-order a range that keeps coming back with problems.

Finally, I don't believe there is such a thing as an unbiased review. So before you splash out £1000 plus on something based on what some guy wrote somewhere, it's worth going to check out the beast in person.

T

Shnex, I couldn't agree with you more. Most of the people posting about this tv are those with problems. And they will search for comments from other people who have problems, and pay attention only to them. Despite this, there are still many posts on this thread from people who are completely happy with their tv, like you and me. These posts seem to get ignored however. I wonder why?

This thread also seems to be going round in circles, with the same points being raised again and again, such as should WHF lower the rating they awarded to this tv, how much do Sony pay for advertising, etc? IMO, WHF have done all that could reasonably be expected of them, and more. If Sony paid so much for advertising, would they not put pressure on WHF to stop this thread and any others like it? I think so. But how long is this thread? How much input has there been from Andrew, Clare, etc. They have even brought this problem to Sony's attention. I don't understand where accusations of bias towards Sony come from.

And to everyone wanting WHF to lower their rating - why? How can they lower a rating based on problems they have not seen? I've had my tv for nearly 4 months now, and I still think it's amazing. I can see no backlight bleed or clouding at all. And another thing, a lot of people have said that they can see backlight bleed when there is no input device switched on. Why? Who is going to sit and watch a blank tv? Is it really that bad when actually watching something?

This thread, and others like it, are making me look for problems with my tv, even when I know there are none. And I'm sure other people find themselves doing the same. When I'm watching a particularly dark scene, or where there are black bars along the top and bottom, I am finding myself looking at the corners trying to see if I can spot any bleeding (which I can't), instead of just enjoying what is a cracking tv.

I know some people have problems with theirs, but how bad are the problems really? I think the problems are being magnified by some of the people on here. For each of the unhappy people on here, there will surely be countless very happy people not posting on this thread. But because of their poor experiences, and those of others on here, some people are assuming that all these tvs must therefore be affected. But they aren't. WHF's review set is fine, so is Clare's dad's, so is mine, and so is Shnex's. So there's 4 for starters.

I don't deny that some people seem to be affected quite badly, but I don't think that the problems are anywhere near as widespread as is being made out. This is a great tv, and I would happily recommend it to anyone.

 

[visionary]

Hear hear!

now, can we lock the thread and move on?

 

[simonlewis]

The new models will be out soon, that'll give something else to complain about.

 

[Andrew Everard]

visionary:Hear hear!
now, can we lock the thread and move on?

Have a sneaking feeling that if we locked it - out of sheer boredom more than anything else - another thread would pop up saying the fact we're stifling debate shows how beholden we are to Sony, etc., etc..

I'm just going to let it ramble on, I think...

 

[Clare Newsome]

Yep, the deluded conspiracy theorists would be bound to misconstrue it.

More importanly, of course, there may still be people out there who are about to buy/have just bought one of these sets, and it's only fair they have access to the full debate (however crazy it's got at times on this thread).

 

[visionary]

It's getting a bit like eczema though. You know you should leave it alone but it's hard to resist just one more scratch.

 

[Anonymous]

there could be 50000 people out there with perfect sets , but if there was 1000 with dodgy ones , should they just shut up and bear it ?? no i dont think so , you say you have a perfect set , why not enjoy it and ignore these threads ?? if you had a dodgy set would you like someone telling you not to complain cause you were annoying them ?? this debate isnt about taking sides , people want to hear good and bad experiences , then they can make an informed descision ,, i dont have your tv , but am close to buying one , what you have said makes me want one even more , but i dont want hassle , and because sony havnt commented properly on this subject , i am in limbo ,, and a little cautious ..... would you blame me ????

 

[rob_981]

maxflinn:there could be 50000 people out there with perfect sets , but if there was 1000 with dodgy ones , should they just shut up and bear it ?? no i dont think so , you say you have a perfect set , why not enjoy it and ignore these threads ?? if you had a dodgy set would you like someone telling you not to complain cause you were annoying them ?? this debate isnt about taking sides , people want to hear good and bad experiences , then they can make an informed descision ,, i dont have your tv , but am close to buying one , what you have said makes me want one even more , but i dont want hassle , and because sony havnt commented properly on this subject , i am in limbo ,, and a little cautious ..... would you blame me ????

I totally agree with you. Of course I don't blame you. And of course they shouldn't grin and bear it. But I think it's going a bit over the top now, with accusations of bias, etc etc. There seem to be a minority of sets affected. But there are some people who are assuming that just because their set is affected, then every set must be affected, and are telling people to stay away from this tv. That is why I have kept reading this thread. Because I have one which works well, I know how good it is, and I don't like to see people warning other potential buyers to stay away, based only on their experiences. As you say, you want to hear good and bad experiences. I'm providing good ones. If this thread was full of only negative comments, noone would ever buy this tv.

If you do go for this tv (and obviously I think you should), take the advice of others and try to view it first and check for bleeding. And buy from a reputable dealer who will take it back if you're not happy with it. You won't regret it.

 

[Anonymous]

The fact is that the points of doubt were raised, reconfirmed and warnings made, 500 posts ago.

Those people who have the probs should spend their time e mailing or besieging their dealer/Sony. They can use this thread as evidence as well - I would.

There is more than enough info now for those in the market for a TV to decide if they want to take the risk or not. I'm sure that negotiations with dealers will be undertaken to ensure a return will be guaranteed (in writing if it were me) if the prob arises for these wary punters.

We are into spleen venting territory rather than a thread of debate and this is maybe too far. The staffers have done all they can so let's turn our sights elsewhere, eh ?

 

[rob_981]

Ok, I found this on another site. I'm not sure if it's ok to post it here, but as it might help, and is just a post by a user of the site, I thought it might be ok. I take no responsibility for suggesting it, but if anyone wants to try it, perhaps you could report back to say whether or not it works -

"I suffered with the prominent 'backlight bleed' problem in both top corners of my KDL40W4500 and after diong a little research realised it's related to the way the screen is mounted. i layed my tv on it's front (with stand removed), slackened all the screws on the rear panel then re-tightened them and viola! no bleed whatsoever, even with backlight at max. seems to me the screens may become a little 'strained' in transit and just need relaxing. worked for me but of course i don't accept any responsibility if you decide to try it!"

 

[Andrew Everard]

rob_981:
Ok, I found this on another site. I'm not sure if it's ok to post it here, but as it might help, and is just a post by a user of the site, I thought it might be ok. I take no responsibility for suggesting it, but if anyone wants to try it, perhaps you could report back to say whether or not it works -

"I suffered with the prominent 'backlight bleed' problem in both top corners of my KDL40W4500 and after diong a little research realised it's related to the way the screen is mounted. i layed my tv on it's front (with stand removed), slackened all the screws on the rear panel then re-tightened them and viola! no bleed whatsoever, even with backlight at max. seems to me the screens may become a little 'strained' in transit and just need relaxing. worked for me but of course i don't accept any responsibility if you decide to try it!"

I'm sure I suggested something like this about a million posts back in this thread or one of the very similar ones. Not that you should try this adjustment yourself, but that the problems could be caused by over-enthusiastic use or incorrect torque setting of a power screwdriver in assembly, causing the panel to distort slightly.

It'd only have to happen at one station on the production line to afflict a considerable number of sets, given the speed at which these things are banged out, not of course that this excuses QC inspection not picking it up...

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks to What HI FI people have a forum where they can find out about other peoples experiences before making a purchase, and give people the benefit of their experience after purchase.

I purchased a 40W4500 last November that had clouding,it was replaced but the second set had the same problem - even after a Sony installed software update and I got full refund. So now I am back using my old Sony 21".

The clouding issue is definitely real as it shows up during viewing of material with dark scenes and will not be resolved (in all cases at least) through adjustment of the settings (calibration). In proposing that people "calibrate'' their set to resolve a noticeable fault is unacceptable, since if that were the correct course of action, then why do Sony not ship the TV's pre-calibrated? Part of the SONY proposed fix for clouding is that the backlight setting is set low at about 2. Straight away the scope for calibration and adjustment of the TV is compromised.

What is sad is that Sony provide no information as regards whether they have resolved this issue or not. If they did, many people including myself would buy one.Therefore we can only assume that the faulty sets are still out there in the shops.

 

[Anonymous]

Well I'll retract my statements. Very strong arguments there. And highlighting LG's poor showing in WHF reviews reminds me that we should focus more on what we have in common (not liking LG all that much).

And in reply to the comment about Sonys being the most reliable sets... I deal with the only repair centre for televisions in my area about once a week or so. The have contracts with: Visionquest, Viewsonic, Toshiba, LG, Samsung, Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, Japan Victor, etc. etc. Only two major manufacturers they don't do are Mits and Philips. Not only do they all own Panasonics/Pioneers. But I have never, once, seen a P machine Plasma on their floor.

To be fair panasonic has a strict 48hour warranty service program in Canada but still. Not once!

 

[Anonymous]

WHF, I am getting my 3rd Sony 40w4500 on Monday. I do not believe that Clare got one for her father and was lucky enough to have tested 2 at WHF and have no problems with the clouding, while i have had 2 with severe clouding, this would make me extremely unlucky and yourself very lucky indeed.

Also i have been to the store where i got mine and the display model has the clouding (although hard to see with the lighting). I believe the Sony coming Monday will have the same problem and yes you may ask why am i bothering. Well, when the picture is good it's fantastic. However, when on a dark scene and the clouding is showing it lets the whole telly down and spoils the experience.

Nothing will convince me that Clare has had the luck to see 3 Sonys in action with no clouding what so ever. Why, because all LCDs over 32 inches have a little bleeding (ALL LCDs), but most are watchable and cant be seen unless under extreme conditions.

I have seen four Sonys in action and four with clouding, that equals 100% bad luck. Clare has seen 3 Sonys in action and not one with clouding, this equals 100% good luck. This in find hard to believe!

 

[Clare Newsome]

Well the serial number of my father's set is somewhere in the gazillion pages of this thread if you choose to look for it - rather than calling me a liar in your very first post on this Forum (hello to you, too!)

And it's not just me, either - for starters we team test; then there's the two Sony W4500s we displayed on our stand at the Stuff/WHF show last November for three full days, without a single sign of clouding or bleed (and we were playing films all the way through, including end credits). Several other team members have advised friends/family to buy, too, and they've all been OK.

Oh, then there's the numerous people on this thread that have unaffected sets, too - some of them just a page back on this thread.

I am genuinely sorry you've had a couple of dodgy sets, but having a pop at us isn't the answer. All the very best at getting a decent replacement - and remember to run a set-up rather than judge any TV out-of-the-box (or indeed in-store).

 

[Anonymous]

I don't always agree with this mags opinions, but opinions always vary. However I will say this in what hi fi's defence, it is not in their interests to cover up something like this because since it has been apparent to some unfortunate buyers, then it would explode in their faces. Perhaps if this was an exclusive sony magazine then it could be the case that all sony products would be marvelled at, but this is a mag, who feature many different products, from many different manufacturers. The fact that they have not censored any of this information presented on this thread illustrates that there is no agenda. Ultimately what hi fi can not be responnsible for the actions of others, All they can control is the review they give any given product and that is based on what is presented to them. I know you are aggreived about your television but common sense should be telling you whf have nothing to gain from omitting or overlooking fundamental aspects of the television.

 

[Anonymous]

Clare, i am sorry if i have caused offense to you personally, this was not my intention. I am just blown away how some of us seem to have one dodgy set after another and WHF seem to have a all the good sets (including a couple on this forum).

I have a cyrus set up with dynaudio speakers, all recommended from reading WHF for many years. Having had the system for a few years it has done me well.

I hope that the Sony coming Monday will be free from severe clouding.

I do appreciate you taking the time to reply and again apologise.

 

[Clare Newsome]

There is, of course, the possibility that as all the sets you've seen have been from the same store, they''ve got an entire run of wrong 'uns (see the previous page or two for some suggestions of a production fault).

And thanks for your apology. I do understand your frustration, but please don't direct it at us, as we're doing our best to bring this issue to people's attention (I'm sure this thread, plus our online reviews that highlight the issues, have put more people off buying these sets than our initial rating persuaded people to buy!), while remaining steadfast in our belief that when you get an unaffected sample of these sets they're still the best around for the price.

 

[Anonymous]

My set was delivered on Wednesday, and I could not be happier. It was replacing my 40V2000. I used the settings suggested further back in this thread, and the picture is stunning. No noticeable backlight bleed. Oddly it even seems to handle SD incredibly well.

Put a planet earth blu-ray in and the difference between this and my other TV is amazing.

That and the fact that I got this for under £1200, and I am a very happy boy. Thanks to Clare and the other contributors who persuaded me that it was worth investing in this set. Sony have never let me down before, and yet again they have not.

 

[biggus_1961]

I have a 40w4000 with none of the problems mentioned in this thread.. Set was assembled in malaysia (not Spain) but could not find the manufacture date on the set. Set was purchased in early January 2009..Serial number is no a 400******* but starts with 1353

 

[Anonymous]

I know some sets have suffered from clouding, but what about buzzing? My sets buzzes as if something is vibrating. I've been through mill with the retailer and trading standards. After getting nowhere I tried contacting Sony, who agreed for an engineer to take a look. Unfortunately an engineer could not find a fault. However after delivering it back to me, they set it up, switched on, and there the buzz was again. They didn't know what to do, and had to leave me with the set. Sony know of no one else who covers my area, unless I try the same engineer again, but I'm not sure it's worth the hassle.

It would be great if someone had heard of a familiar problem? I can't believe I'm stuck with an irritating problem like this, after all the money it cost me. Felt like putting my foot through it tonight.