Sony & Clouds. Somebody share your FACTS.

[admin_exported]

This is not going away. We nearly bought a Sony (we were considering a 46 inch WE5 or a Z4500) and came within a whisker of getting one, but the backlight issue put us off completely (aswell as my dislike for all black shiny plastic). We bought our Philips.

We also want a 2nd TV for the attic at a lower cost. We originally bought a Panasonic 42X10, but we could not live with it (I thought it was faulty - flickery and motion unfocussed, but I found out I notice this on more pricey Panasonics and even Pioneers. I just can't watch plasma - my eyes are not compatible).

We have decided a 37inch would be the best thing and probably a Sony - if not for our backlight worries.

Is there anybody (preferably many people surely), who have bought a Sony (37,40,46 - S,V,W,WE5 or Z - I'm flexible) and are willing to say that their backlight is good (or at least not a problem to them).

We really want to know. Somebody is buying these TVs (after all - they range from good to excellent). Can you share your experiences?

Sony KDL- 40Z5500 Backlight Bleed seems to report at least some clouding.

 

[Anonymous]

this should be an interesting thread

 

[HD Elvis]

I had an old V series and defo backlight bleed on that set. Pretty poor on SD especially on footy but HD images were immense. Would not be enough to put me off getting another.

 

[Anonymous]

This thread should be relevant to my interests.

I'm currently looking for a 40"-ish HD TV and I've been looking at the KDL-40W5500. Reading reviews it always seems to turn up as one of the best TVs available at my size and price point (around £800) but obviously I'm concerned about backlight issues.

Some reviews seem to imply that the backlight bleed can be minimised with correct settings or is livable with in most every day conditions... does anyone with experience disagree with this?

 

[sonycentre]

best way to see this,is to go and look at one,i will tell you that i have only seen one sony set,and that was a kdl40w4000,i have installed many of our new range a peoples houses and not seen any backlight problems.nor in store.I do find it strange that we are still talking about this problem,i called sonytech last week,and they said backlight bleed would only occour when the set is on vivid mode,as this maxes all the setting out,witch is true.keeping backlight down to 2,contrast on 75,powersaving mode on will produce a stunning picture.

 

[Nick_Shepherd]

Are What Hi Fi wrong then sony centre?

I also have read many a review on other sites and mags that all rate the Sony sets and interestingly the ones that mention backlight bleed (and one does not at all) say it is slight and fine after you play around a bit. Its seems only What Hi Fi that really cant overlook it. Maybe there sets have been worse, maybe they are better reviewers? Some Sonys WHIFI have reviewd had no bleed and they loved em (46WE5, 37W500).

I'll have a 40'WE5 by Friday so will let you know if it has any bleed that I can see. Fingers crossed!

 

[ear]

has anyone tried to massage gently the screen? since i do this quite often on the laptop...that would be my first impulse on a lcd tv..

 

[ear]

the colours on the w4000 were so much better than these of the v5500 and w5500....so so so much better

 

[Anonymous]

billicks....

 

[Anonymous]

oops , that "billicks " was meant for sontcentre , not you ear

 

[Anonymous]

sonycentre:best way to see this,is to go and look at one,i will tell you that i have only seen one sony set,and that was a kdl40w4000,i have installed many of our new range a peoples houses and not seen any backlight problems.nor in store.I do find it strange that we are still talking about this problem,i called sonytech last week,and they said backlight bleed would only occour when the set is on vivid mode,as this maxes all the setting out,witch is true.keeping backlight down to 2,contrast on 75,powersaving mode on will produce a stunning picture.one of the main reasons people buy lcds is they like the vibrancy of the screen , the "pop" as its been called , but all lcds on display in shops have the backlight maxed out to show this and to catch peoples attention , turning down the backlight to 2 would lesson this look , whats the point of buying a tv for its bright picture if you cant look at it like that without also seeing backlight bleed ?????????????????????????????? thats cobblers sonycentre .... backlight bleed is a fault , full stop ....

 

[ear]

in fact i think i never saw backlight bleed on a sony.sure have noticed a lot of screen unconsistencies on other brands...expecially lg

 

[Anonymous]

all the sonys that whfi reviewed from last years range had perfect screen uniformaty , and nearly all got 5 stars , top tvs and fair play , nearly all of this years range that whfi have reviewed have HAD backlight issues of varying degrees , how can anyone argue that the issue is so rare ?? its just foolish , i think anyone who does get a perfect sony would have a smashing tv , and i believe they are good value too , but coming on THIS forum trying to deny the issue of screen uniformaty is just silly , two words spring to mind , digging , and deeper ....

 

[matthewpiano]

At the end of the day anyone can only really go on their own experiences. Without being at all confrontational maxflinn, I would say that sonycentre will have seen far far more Sony LCDs in a variety of settings than you have. In the same way that WHFS&V can only report what they see, the people who sell the sets can only go off their own experience with the sets they sell/install and the ensuing customer satisfaction.

I spent a day on the installation team the other day and was extremely impressed with the way the sets performed in customer homes.

 

[Anonymous]

hi mathew , both you and sonycentre have probably seen more sonys than ive had hot dinners , i am not a techie , just have an interest in hd tvs and love watching movies , sport etc , i have no reason to be slating sony , ive always had them , from walkmans , to trinitron tvs , and when i used to go shopping for such things i wouldnt even have considered another brand , for me , sony was always synonymous with class , what bothers me is the thought of people going back to a store with a sony tv that has backlight issues ( however rare that is ) only to be told that it isnt considered a fault , thats my only gripe , for me its either a fault , and faulty tvs should be replaced , or it isnt a fault ( in sonys eyes ) and people have to live with it (in the event , however rare , they buy a sony with clouding ), if its the latter then i think that its only fair that people know where they stand , and are made aware of sonys own standpoint regarding clouding , then they can buy sonys great tvs with their eyes open ....

 

[sonycentre]

Maxflinn,im not digging a bigger hole for myself at all,i work with these tv,s 6 days a week,and i know what i see and dont see.Yes the tvs are set on vivid to make them stand out.but tweeking these sets pay divadens,and after time lcd set do get better after age to.When you sell as much as i do then maybe you can come out with some of the comments you make.i mave have been strong in some of my other comments in the past,but i will always stand by what i say.people will always have opinions.just cos i just sell sony does not mean i dont go out and see other brands.i do just to see what everyone else is doing out there.

 

[Anonymous]

sonycentre:Maxflinn,im not digging a bigger hole for myself at all,i work with these tv,s 6 days a week,and i know what i see and dont see.Yes the tvs are set on vivid to make them stand out.but tweeking these sets pay divadens,and after time lcd set do get better after age to.When you sell as much as i do then maybe you can come out with some of the comments you make.i mave have been strong in some of my other comments in the past,but i will always stand by what i say.people will always have opinions.just cos i just sell sony does not mean i dont go out and see other brands.i do just to see what everyone else is doing out there.and more power to you , i respect the passion both you and mathewpiano have for sony , and im sure anyone buying from either of you guys would get great service and advice , who knows how many sony tvs have clouding problems ?? it may only be 1% of them , it does however seem strange that sony people posting on here have generally only seen one or at a push two sonys with clouding issues whan even i have seen two or three , and ive only seen a handful of sony tvs in total , it reminds me a bit of how everyone in the emirates seen eduardos dive against celtic apart from arsene wenger , hmmmm ?

 

[Nick_Shepherd]

matthew/sony center:

Can you kindly ask the Sony technical people if they have a measurement for at which point backlight bleed is considered too much and therefor a fault?

I would like to know if they feel any amount of bleed is a symptom of LCD tech.

After all,I am about to buy one!

 

[sonycentre]

Will ask for you tommorow nick.

 

[Anonymous]

It seems to me that the majority of complaints with regards backlight bleed has been aimed at Sony and perhaps rightly so. However while looking around for a new tv I have noticed it on other brands, eg Samsung and LG. I have already posted else were my experience with a Samsung UE40B7000 with horrendous backlight bleed and clouding as bad as any web images i've seen of the Sony's.

I too had to turn the backlight down to two and while it did not go away it wasn't as noticeable while watching. I agree you do lose the pop which is a big reason for getting a lcd in the first place.

It would be interesting if there was a poll were users could indicate how much bleed they had on their sets and what make they are.

I truly think the bottom line is that wether or not you want to call it a fault or not, it is a design flaw in lcd tv's and I would assume that until local dimming leds become common place or oled becomes main stream that your always going to get it to some degree

 

[Anonymous]

I had certain preconceptions when I started this thread, but I would like to clear up some that may have arisen concerning my motives for starting it.

I don't own a Sony TV (once had a very nice CRT), but I am considering one. I have other Sony kit I am more than happy with and would strongly recommend their DVDR/HDDs as in 4 years of use I have not had 1 coaster (and I have burnt maybe 2000 discs) or 1 jump in a recording. I am not a Sony basher - I am a genuine potential customer with concerns.

Firstly, I expected some defence or denial via Sony Centre employees. Nothing wrong with that, but the fact is these problems cannot (very often) even be seen in a shop. It's when the punter is at home and he has played with his new pride and joy that these 'problem's become clear. There are people on the internet who are talking about their cloudy backlights that won't calm down when you lower the level and there are buyers who have returned sets. Put 'Sony kdl-37w5500' in a Google image search and the top line has somebody with terrible clouding.

On another thread it was suggested that there should be statistics for this problem, as Sony Centre says it is rare - but the only people who could provide these numbers are Sony and we know how upset they get and how reluctant they are to talk about faults. What about the BBC and PS3's!?!

I also presumed there would be other potential buyers (like me) who would like the same answers I would.

Question: If I come to the Sony Centre and buy a 37inch for my attic (like I want to), will you guarantee that the backlight will be fine (like my Philips 42inch I have in my living room) and if it is not will I get a refund or a replacement? What if the next one is bad? How many can I bring back? You should not fear this question as you regard these problems as rare. I am not being flippant or trying to undermine you or Sony. I am totally genuine.

Nobody has yet said they have a Sony and it is fine, which is worrying - given the number of people on these forums.

I (for one) am not suggesting this a problem that is unique to Sony, but they are the Japanese brand that has always had a 'premium' aura. It has however been the case that is some WHF reviews the backlight clouding has been visible in normal conditions when non is seen on other makes in the test. I have found problems I could not live with - with practically every other make of TV, so my choice keeps coming back to Sony, but I'm so worried about handing over a pile of money and finding a cloudy TV in may attic. I have no interest in propaganda. I want facts (as in the title of this thread).

Everyone expects to see the backlight as grey black if they move off axis with an LCD or if they have it too bright for the viewing conditions - this is absolutley inherent to the underlying technology, but unevenness is something that should have been developed out by now. My Philips has no unevenness and certainly no clouding. I would have presumed it to be faulty if it had. I absolutely feel that I am entitled to have the same kind of expectations of Japan's premium LCD maker.

Even with the Sony sets that WHF has reviewed as having fine backlights, some buyers have found differently (WE5, 37W5500 etc.), so their conclusion on these forums seems to be that any Sony set can be cloudy. The 46Z5500 just got 5 stars and had a good backlight - this gives me no confidence that they all have. The inconsistancy seems too consistant (sorry).

Thanks everybody. Any Sony owners? Come on, we want to know your good news.....

 

[Tonya]

I am an audio/video engineer with no affiliation to any manufacturer and after testing several makes and models that are available, I chose the Sony KDL-52W4500 and after several hours of tweaking and calibration I can honestly say I have yet to see a better picture rendition on HD than this set.
And I get to play with lots of sets on a daily basis!
Any LCD will exhibit "bleed" if it is adjusted out of range in much the same way as the most expensive loudspeakers in the world will deliver distortion if pushed too hard.
My advice is to try before you buy and take along your favourite BluRay disc to compare.

 

[Oldboy]

Hi,

After reading through this thread i feel compelled to add this: it wasn't for the known (sorry Sony guy's but it is!) issues with backlighting and/or clouding of the recent Sony TV range i would've bought a 40W5500 set but after a little research and seeing the issues alot of peolpe have had i was totally put off from buying one. The problem for Sony is that i doubt i am alone in that thinking and indeed i ended up buying a Samsung le40b650 instead which i've got to say i'm really happy with but even with this set i have noticed a small ammount of backlight bleed in the corners during night time viewing. It's absolutely nothing like the pics i have seen of the Sony sets but even so it's worrying and leads me to wonder just how much the problem is due to the lcd technology.....?

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Tonya. What about clouding though - you do not say if you have any? It is not the same issue as bleed (which I agree you will get if you push the BL too bright for the viewing conditions. My monitor has a little bleed (as I sit here with dark wallpaper), as I have it set a bit over the top. There is no clouding though.

And of course - as you expect, a potential buyer (Oldboy) has been put off one as there is a real confidence issue. We are worried.

 

[Anonymous]

well I am on my third sony 40w4000, having had to replace the first two because of clouding. Set one had a a 6" by 6" patch of clouding at the top left of the screen that was always visible during dark scenes when watching in "cinema" conditions (ie. room lights dimmed). Set two was worse...had several smaller patches spread across the screen, probably 2" by 2" each, again visible during all dark scenes when lights were dimmed. In both cases, the clouding was far less noticeable watching in daylight/bright room lights. Set three was perfect, no problems at all, which made it even more apparent that the first two were unacceptable.

And just to be absolutely clear, the clouding on sets one and two could not be fixed through tweaking the settings, through "running in" the TV, or through massaging the screen (tried all three). Even with backlight settings on min, the clouding was obvious. By contrast, set 3 has no clouding, no matter what I do to the settings...you get some backlight bleed if you push the backlight up too high, but this is a uniform effect around the screen and completely normal from I what I know about LCD tech.

So if you're buying a new Sony, be prepared to swap until you get one with no problems...because despite what sony and others say, this problem does exist on some sets and it's not down to the calibration settings. I only have a sony I'm happy with because I went through quite a bit of pain lugging TVs backwards and forwards to John Lewis (who were very good about letting me return).