so unscientific!

[Alec]

So basically, a first poster starts this thread & doesn't return, and others are arguing over how What Hi Fi should run its business! 🙂 I'll be interested to know the business backgrounds of those who're teaching papa how to........

Yeah! Good innit? Still, must keep the rubbish threads at the top of the list, yeah!?

 

[The_Lhc]

An interesting and amusing thread, but the real point to make is that dumbing down is endemic in this hobby and this forum is the living proof of it. Not 'knowing' anything about hi-fi is not and never has been a problem, in the past people were recommended to visit a knowledgeable, often independent dealer who would take them through what the needed to know and put together a system that worked and suited their tastes and requirements. This has stopped happening in more modern times (for a variety of reasons), product is bought on price, reputation and reviews, this is what buyers look for when they do their research. The how and why this equipment works (or doesn't) is, in the main, of no interest, it's too complicated, just buy the product with the 5*s as it's bound to be good.

Sorry, but hi-fi is for listening to music. If the music sounds good then it DOESN'T matter how that happens, that's what the "dumbed down" people realise and yet the clever people here don't.

 

[John Duncan]

dumbing down is endemic in this hobby and this forum is the living proof of it

My work here is done.

 

[professorhat]

Sorry, but hi-fi is for listening to music. If the music sounds good then it DOESN'T matter how that happens, that's what the "dumbed down" people realise and yet the clever people here don't.

Sactly

in the past people were recommended to visit a knowledgeable, often independent dealer who would take them through what the needed to know and put together a system that worked and suited their tastes and requirements. This has stopped happening in more modern times (for a variety of reasons), product is bought on price, reputation and reviews, this is what buyers look for when they do their research. The how and why this equipment works (or doesn't) is, in the main, of no interest, it's too complicated, just buy the product with the 5*s as it's bound to be good.

And not true - virtually everyone here would definitely recommend a visit to a dealer rather than just reading a review prior to purchase. The difference is, I wouldn't insist the need to visit a dealer and complete a 12 week course before you should be allowed to buy something decent to listen to music on.

People aren't told they need to learn exactly how a computer works before they're allowed to browse the internet - so why should they have to learn the technical details of hi-fi if it doesn't interest them?

 

[chebby]

Do you watch Jeremy Kyle? I don't. "They" do though. And they don't just watch it, they LIKE it! The sooner you understand that, the easier it is to live with the world in all its stupidity.

I watched some of it once. Within 10 minutes I was craving Tesco value frozen Pizzas and vodka and looking up details for local tattoo parlours and Staffordshire bull terrier breeders.

I started calling everyone 'babes' because I had suddenly - and inexplicably - lost the ability to remember even family member's names!

I staggered out, stole some Stella Artois cans, drank them all with some jolly convivial chaps who hang around the fountain in the precinct and came to an hour later in the middle of JJB's hoodie section trying to strangle a mannequin that had looked at me the wrong way.

Never again.

 

[John Duncan]

Do you watch Jeremy Kyle? I don't. "They" do though. And they don't just watch it, they LIKE it! The sooner you understand that, the easier it is to live with the world in all its stupidity.

I watched some of it once. Within 10 minutes I was craving Tesco value frozen Pizzas and vodka and looking up details for local tattoo parlours and Staffordshire bull terrier breeders.

I started calling everyone 'babes' because I had suddenly - and inexplicably - lost the ability to remember even family member's names!

I staggered out, stole some Stella Artois cans, drank them all with some jolly convivial chaps who hang around the fountain in the precinct and came to an hour later in the middle of JJB's hoodie section trying to strangle a mannequin that had looked at me the wrong way.

Never again.

That was *you*??!?!?!? How we laughed.

 

[woodbino]

Wow. So the first poster returns. I haven't replied yet because I wrote that post before bed, went to work, and here I am back to read the furore it has created. Nice.

I do think my point has been missed.

I want to know what sounds best. I do care about the science and technology involved as a lot of us do, simply because we have an interest in such things. However at the end of the day I want to know what sounds best within my budget range.

I'm also a medical doctor by trade. Within my role as a doctor I strive to find treatments for my patients which work best for them. To do this we gather evidence.

In the journey to find evidence we conduct and review . research. We all know how strong the placebo effect can be.

I think you know where this is going now...!

I do subscribe to whathifi and enjoy reading it. However as I have become older and (??) wiser I have leant to take any review of electrical equipment from any source with a large pinch of salt when that review starts talking about very subjective things.

I was stimulated to write my original post when I read whathifi reviews of mains leads. The lloytron review in particular which slated the 4 quid cable For not providing precision and depth to a bluray of clockwork orange.

Now this I'm afraid is a load of tosh! It is SCIENTIFICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for a mains cable to make any difference to such equipment. Instead whf recommend cables costing £40 or more... For a kettle lead, when the lead that the manufacturer provides in the box is just fine.

Now it would be very easy for a reviewer to test a handful of leads, not knowing anything about them, then rate each one. This was we would know, in a more scientific manner, if these leads really do make a difference. That way whf would be doing a service to their loyal readership, letting UA know where not to waste our money.

If you are put in front of equipment and are told it's really expensive, and it comes from a manufacturer you are fond of, you will, because of the power of placebo, find it better than a less expensive model.

 

[davedotco]

An interesting and amusing thread, but the real point to make is that dumbing down is endemic in this hobby and this forum is the living proof of it. Not 'knowing' anything about hi-fi is not and never has been a problem, in the past people were recommended to visit a knowledgeable, often independent dealer who would take them through what the needed to know and put together a system that worked and suited their tastes and requirements. This has stopped happening in more modern times (for a variety of reasons), product is bought on price, reputation and reviews, this is what buyers look for when they do their research. The how and why this equipment works (or doesn't) is, in the main, of no interest, it's too complicated, just buy the product with the 5*s as it's bound to be good.

Sorry, but hi-fi is for listening to music. If the music sounds good then it DOESN'T matter how that happens, that's what the "dumbed down" people realise and yet the clever people here don't.

Like I said, dumbed down to the point that reading what is actually written is no longer a requirement when replying to a post.

My message is simple.

If you know nothing about hi-fi and don't want to learn, use a competent dealer.

If you want to select and choose your own system then the more you know and understand, the more likely you are to put together something that will work well.

 

[davedotco]

dumbing down is endemic in this hobby and this forum is the living proof of it

My work here is done.

I always try to make your life easier JD.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

woodbino, how do you feel about HDMI cables?

 

[woodbino]

Ditto about HDMI cables. All mine cost 99p and my pictures look awesome. Again impossible for them to make any difference.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Aah, but that depends on the TV. I have a top range Philips, for example.

 

[theexcitableboy]

Aah, but that depends on the TV. I have a top range Philips, for example.

*facepalm*

 

[BenLaw]

BTW - you do know I'm not actually a professor? Or a hat.

Charlatan.

The relief of confession. This might inspire my next avatar...

I'm distressed by the mendacity. Forget about your avatar, could you please change your username to something more honest? Maybe notprofessornothat?

 

[professorhat]

BTW - you do know I'm not actually a professor? Or a hat.

Charlatan.

The relief of confession. This might inspire my next avatar...

I'm distressed by the mendacity. Forget about your avatar, could you please change your username to something more honest? Maybe notprofessornothat?

not pro fess or not that?

 

[BenLaw]

BTW - you do know I'm not actually a professor? Or a hat.

Charlatan.

The relief of confession. This might inspire my next avatar...

I'm distressed by the mendacity. Forget about your avatar, could you please change your username to something more honest? Maybe notprofessornothat?

not pro fess or not that?

Not profess or not that. I like it. Sort it out.

 

[bigboss]

I'm also a medical doctor by trade. Within my role as a doctor I strive to find treatments for my patients which work best for them. To do this we gather evidence.

Finally, another doctor on the forum! :clap:

It's been four and a half years where I've been the only doctor here (unless I missed some infrequent posters).

FWIW, I don't believe that cables, or even blu ray players (for 1080p pictures) make a difference. WHF has asserted that their reviews are subjective, which you may agree with or not.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

I'm also a medical doctor by trade. Within my role as a doctor I strive to find treatments for my patients which work best for them. To do this we gather evidence.

Finally, another doctor on the forum! :clap:

It's been four and a half years where I've been the only doctor here (unless I missed some infrequent posters).

FWIW, I don't believe that cables, or even blu ray players (for 1080p pictures) make a difference. WHF has asserted that their reviews are subjective, which you may agree with or not.

Hey BB, how about having the picture on here as an avatar?

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Big-Boss-Blu-ray/48195/#Review

 

[TrevC]

I do subscribe to whathifi and enjoy reading it. However as I have become older and (??) wiser I have leant to take any review of electrical equipment from any source with a large pinch of salt when that review starts talking about very subjective things.

I was stimulated to write my original post when I read whathifi reviews of mains leads. The lloytron review in particular which slated the 4 quid cable For not providing precision and depth to a bluray of clockwork orange.

Now this I'm afraid is a load of tosh! It is SCIENTIFICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for a mains cable to make any difference to such equipment. Instead whf recommend cables costing £40 or more... For a kettle lead, when the lead that the manufacturer provides in the box is just fine.

:bounce: :dance: :rockout: :cheer: 😛

 

[TrevC]

Sorry, but hi-fi is for listening to music. If the music sounds good then it DOESN'T matter how that happens, that's what the "dumbed down" people realise and yet the clever people here don't.

Sactly

in the past people were recommended to visit a knowledgeable, often independent dealer who would take them through what the needed to know and put together a system that worked and suited their tastes and requirements. This has stopped happening in more modern times (for a variety of reasons), product is bought on price, reputation and reviews, this is what buyers look for when they do their research. The how and why this equipment works (or doesn't) is, in the main, of no interest, it's too complicated, just buy the product with the 5*s as it's bound to be good.

And not true - virtually everyone here would definitely recommend a visit to a dealer rather than just reading a review prior to purchase. The difference is, I wouldn't insist the need to visit a dealer and complete a 12 week course before you should be allowed to buy something decent to listen to music on.

People aren't told they need to learn exactly how a computer works before they're allowed to browse the internet - so why should they have to learn the technical details of hi-fi if it doesn't interest them?

So because you don't find technical information useful because you can't understand it nobody else should be allowed to have it.

 

[professorhat]

So because you don't find technical information useful because you can't understand it nobody else should be allowed to have it.

Honestly Trev, this is tiresome. You know perfectly well that's not what I said, nor meant.

Yesterday was a really dull day at work so I was willing to partake in this inane conversation as it offered slightly more interest. Hopefully today some paint will be drying somewhere that I can watch...

 

[TrevC]

So because you don't find technical information useful because you can't understand it nobody else should be allowed to have it.

Honestly Trev, this is tiresome. You know perfectly well that's not what I said, nor meant.

Yesterday was a really dull day at work so I was willing to partake in this inane conversation as it offered slightly more interest. Hopefully today some paint will be drying somewhere that I can watch...

My tongue was firmly in my cheek when I posted that, but it's nice that you have come around to my way of thinking. :beer:

 

[professorhat]

So because you don't find technical information useful because you can't understand it nobody else should be allowed to have it.

Honestly Trev, this is tiresome. You know perfectly well that's not what I said, nor meant.

Yesterday was a really dull day at work so I was willing to partake in this inane conversation as it offered slightly more interest. Hopefully today some paint will be drying somewhere that I can watch...

My tongue was firmly in my cheek when I posted that, but it's nice that you have come around to my way of thinking. :beer:

Yes, if your way of thinking is that watching paint dry is infinitely more interesting than discussing blind testing / whether cables sound different / whether active or passive speakers are better, then we are in complete agreement finally.

 

[TrevC]

So because you don't find technical information useful because you can't understand it nobody else should be allowed to have it.

Honestly Trev, this is tiresome. You know perfectly well that's not what I said, nor meant.

Yesterday was a really dull day at work so I was willing to partake in this inane conversation as it offered slightly more interest. Hopefully today some paint will be drying somewhere that I can watch...

My tongue was firmly in my cheek when I posted that, but it's nice that you have come around to my way of thinking. :beer:

Yes, if your way of thinking is that watching paint dry is infinitely more interesting than discussing blind testing / whether cables sound different / whether active or passive speakers are better, then we are in complete agreement finally.

Where on earth did you get that lot from? I meant we are in agreement that you don't want to prevent me reading technical info in WHF.

 

[Alec]

Aah, but that depends on the TV. I have a top range Philips, for example.

*facepalm*

Quite.