so unscientific!

[professorhat]

Maybe this is because your average joe knows and understands what things like mpg and top speed mean, whereas if you start mentioning frequency response to them, they'll edge away from you slowly, smiling politely until they reach a safe distance. Also, even if you did patiently explain the term to them before they reached safe distance, they probably would just then say "but what does it sound like?" since that's all most people really care about when it comes to music playback.

If you say so, Joe. Alternatively you could educate yourself about it.

I could (in fact I already did a long time ago, but let's not let that get in way), or I could try to imagine a world whereby I didn't think my opinion was the most important in the world and everyone should do as I tell them.

 

[TrevC]

Maybe this is because your average joe knows and understands what things like mpg and top speed mean, whereas if you start mentioning frequency response to them, they'll edge away from you slowly, smiling politely until they reach a safe distance. Also, even if you did patiently explain the term to them before they reached safe distance, they probably would just then say "but what does it sound like?" since that's all most people really care about when it comes to music playback.

If you say so, Joe. Alternatively you could educate yourself about it.

I could (in fact I already did a long time ago, but let's not let that get in way), or I could try to imagine a world whereby I didn't think my opinion was the most important in the world and everyone should do as I tell them.

You appear to be arguing in favour of dumbing down, which is disappointing for a self proclaimed professor. I think it's important to know whether or not a given piece of equipment meets its specification. Those that don't understand don't have to read it.

 

[professorhat]

You appear to be arguing in favour of dumbing down, which is disappointing for a self proclaimed professor. I think it's important to know whether or not a given piece of equipment meets its specification. Those that don't understand don't have to read it.

Sigh. What I'm arguing is, WHF has been one of the best selling hi-fi magazines for a long time in the UK. In all that time, they've never provided all the detailed analysis that some members of the hi-fi fraternity have called for, and have indeed argued against doing this many times, for the simple reason that, history shows most people don't want this.

Now, there are some that do and there are magazines which provide this for them (I believe you mentioned one earlier). So it makes sense for people that want these things to read those magazines, and leave the others for people that don't. Is that really so difficult to understand? Your argument that people that don't understand don't have to read it is non-sensical as (a) those people probably won't buy a magazine if it's full of graphs and confusing terms they don't know, thus readership goes down and (b) all of those measurements the minority want would be taking up space that could be filled with releavnt information that most people do want (or could even be used for adverts to help keep the magazine running and keep the cover price down).

I'm sure I know the real reason behind your involvement in this thread (i.e. yet another dig into the blind testing argument), but I'm answering for the benefit of the doubt.

 

[bigboss]

People interested in technicalities should look at other reviews. What Hi Fi is the largest selling Hi Fi magazine in the country, where most others have shut shops. Why will it change its winning formula? Remember what happened to coke? It had to revert back to old formula as sales dropped even though in blind tests, people actually preferred the new one.

 

[TrevC]

You appear to be arguing in favour of dumbing down, which is disappointing for a self proclaimed professor. I think it's important to know whether or not a given piece of equipment meets its specification. Those that don't understand don't have to read it.

Sigh. What I'm arguing is, WHF has been one of the best selling hi-fi magazines for a long time in the UK. In all that time, they've never provided all the detailed analysis that some members of the hi-fi fraternity have called for, and have indeed argued against doing this many times, for the simple reason that, history shows most people don't want this.

Now, there are some that do and there are magazines which provide this for them (I believe you mentioned one earlier). So it makes sense for people that want these things to read those magazines, and leave the others for people that don't. Is that really so difficult to understand? Your argument that people that don't understand don't have to read it is non-sensical as (a) those people probably won't buy a magazine if it's full of graphs and confusing terms they don't know, thus readership goes down and (b) all of those measurements the minority want would be taking up space that could be filled with releavnt information that most people do want (or could even be used for adverts to help keep the magazine running and keep the cover price down).

I'm sure I know the real reason behind your involvement in this thread (i.e. yet another dig into the blind testing argument), but I'm answering for the benefit of the doubt.

You failed to address my main point entirely.

 

[The_Lhc]

Maybe this is because your average joe knows and understands what things like mpg and top speed mean, whereas if you start mentioning frequency response to them, they'll edge away from you slowly, smiling politely until they reach a safe distance. Also, even if you did patiently explain the term to them before they reached safe distance, they probably would just then say "but what does it sound like?" since that's all most people really care about when it comes to music playback.

If you say so, Joe. Alternatively you could educate yourself about it.

I could (in fact I already did a long time ago, but let's not let that get in way), or I could try to imagine a world whereby I didn't think my opinion was the most important in the world and everyone should do as I tell them.

You appear to be arguing in favour of dumbing down, which is disappointing for a self proclaimed professor. I think it's important to know whether or not a given piece of equipment meets its specification. Those that don't understand don't have to read it.

And they won't read it. They won't read it by not buying the magazine, which will then go to the wall and you won't have anything to complain about then. You might understand "technical" but you clearly don't understand "economics".

 

[professorhat]

You appear to be arguing in favour of dumbing down, which is disappointing for a self proclaimed professor. I think it's important to know whether or not a given piece of equipment meets its specification. Those that don't understand don't have to read it.

Sigh. What I'm arguing is, WHF has been one of the best selling hi-fi magazines for a long time in the UK. In all that time, they've never provided all the detailed analysis that some members of the hi-fi fraternity have called for, and have indeed argued against doing this many times, for the simple reason that, history shows most people don't want this.

Now, there are some that do and there are magazines which provide this for them (I believe you mentioned one earlier). So it makes sense for people that want these things to read those magazines, and leave the others for people that don't. Is that really so difficult to understand? Your argument that people that don't understand don't have to read it is non-sensical as (a) those people probably won't buy a magazine if it's full of graphs and confusing terms they don't know, thus readership goes down and (b) all of those measurements the minority want would be taking up space that could be filled with releavnt information that most people do want (or could even be used for adverts to help keep the magazine running and keep the cover price down).

I'm sure I know the real reason behind your involvement in this thread (i.e. yet another dig into the blind testing argument), but I'm answering for the benefit of the doubt.

You failed to address my main point entirely.

What's that - the fact that I'm a self-proclaimed professor who thinks people should be entitled to decide for themselves what they want to learn? Or the fact that other people disagree with something you think is important, and are therefore wrong?

BTW - you do know I'm not actually a professor? Or a hat.

 

[TrevC]

Maybe this is because your average joe knows and understands what things like mpg and top speed mean, whereas if you start mentioning frequency response to them, they'll edge away from you slowly, smiling politely until they reach a safe distance. Also, even if you did patiently explain the term to them before they reached safe distance, they probably would just then say "but what does it sound like?" since that's all most people really care about when it comes to music playback.

If you say so, Joe. Alternatively you could educate yourself about it.

I could (in fact I already did a long time ago, but let's not let that get in way), or I could try to imagine a world whereby I didn't think my opinion was the most important in the world and everyone should do as I tell them.

You appear to be arguing in favour of dumbing down, which is disappointing for a self proclaimed professor. I think it's important to know whether or not a given piece of equipment meets its specification. Those that don't understand don't have to read it.

And they won't read it. They won't read it by not buying the magazine, which will then go to the wall and you won't have anything to complain about then. You might understand "technical" but you clearly don't understand "economics".

I disagree with your assertions, because there is no evidence for them. People in general are a lot more intelligent and understand technical matters far more than you might imagine.

Stereophile magazine does both types of testing and is successful, but doesn't test many of the items I'm interested in because it's US based.

 

[TrevC]

You appear to be arguing in favour of dumbing down, which is disappointing for a self proclaimed professor. I think it's important to know whether or not a given piece of equipment meets its specification. Those that don't understand don't have to read it.

Sigh. What I'm arguing is, WHF has been one of the best selling hi-fi magazines for a long time in the UK. In all that time, they've never provided all the detailed analysis that some members of the hi-fi fraternity have called for, and have indeed argued against doing this many times, for the simple reason that, history shows most people don't want this.

Now, there are some that do and there are magazines which provide this for them (I believe you mentioned one earlier). So it makes sense for people that want these things to read those magazines, and leave the others for people that don't. Is that really so difficult to understand? Your argument that people that don't understand don't have to read it is non-sensical as (a) those people probably won't buy a magazine if it's full of graphs and confusing terms they don't know, thus readership goes down and (b) all of those measurements the minority want would be taking up space that could be filled with releavnt information that most people do want (or could even be used for adverts to help keep the magazine running and keep the cover price down).

I'm sure I know the real reason behind your involvement in this thread (i.e. yet another dig into the blind testing argument), but I'm answering for the benefit of the doubt.

You failed to address my main point entirely.

What's that - the fact that I'm a self-proclaimed professor who thinks people should be entitled to decide for themselves what they want to learn? Or the fact that other people disagree with something you think is important, and are therefore wrong?

BTW - you do know I'm not actually a professor? Or a hat.

I can tell you are no professor and you talk through your hat. :clap:

 

[SiUK]

I like details, and lots of them. Don't care if there are too many, just care if there aren't enough

 

[professorhat]

I can tell you are no professor and you talk through your hat. :clap:

Marvellous insult! No really! One of the best I've seen.

So, now I've recovered my split sides, you were going to enlighten me as to the original point you made that I failed to address? Or have we moved on from this now back to blind testing?

 

[altruistic.lemon]

People interested in technicalities should look at other reviews. What Hi Fi is the largest selling Hi Fi magazine in the country, where most others have shut shops. Why will it change its winning formula? Remember what happened to coke? It had to revert back to old formula as sales dropped even though in blind tests, people actually preferred the new one.

.

Yeah! Dumbing down and fashion is all what we unnerstand! An the Daily Mail.

 

[John Duncan]

BTW - you do know I'm not actually a professor? Or a hat.

Charlatan.

 

[TrevC]

I can tell you are no professor and you talk through your hat. :clap:

Marvellous insult! No really! One of the best I've seen.

So, now I've recovered my split sides, you were going to enlighten me as to the original point you made that I failed to address? Or have we moved on from this now back to blind testing?

Glad you liked it. I think it's quite important that an amplifier performs to its spec, IOW if the manufacturer states the rated power on a speaker load of 4 ohms would it be acceptable if it dropped to half that and started to smoke? That type of thing wouldn't necessarily be discovered on a music listening test.

How about you?

 

[The_Lhc]

Maybe this is because your average joe knows and understands what things like mpg and top speed mean, whereas if you start mentioning frequency response to them, they'll edge away from you slowly, smiling politely until they reach a safe distance. Also, even if you did patiently explain the term to them before they reached safe distance, they probably would just then say "but what does it sound like?" since that's all most people really care about when it comes to music playback.

If you say so, Joe. Alternatively you could educate yourself about it.

I could (in fact I already did a long time ago, but let's not let that get in way), or I could try to imagine a world whereby I didn't think my opinion was the most important in the world and everyone should do as I tell them.

You appear to be arguing in favour of dumbing down, which is disappointing for a self proclaimed professor. I think it's important to know whether or not a given piece of equipment meets its specification. Those that don't understand don't have to read it.

And they won't read it. They won't read it by not buying the magazine, which will then go to the wall and you won't have anything to complain about then. You might understand "technical" but you clearly don't understand "economics".

I disagree with your assertions, because there is no evidence for them.

Apart from all the highly technical review magazines that no longer exist you mean?

People in general are a lot more intelligent and understand technical matters far more than you might imagine.

No mate, they don't. Most people are idiots, most people can't even spell "technical" never mind understand. We few, we nerdy few, are NOT "people in general", we're geeks, weirdos, them, them out there, they are not like us, we are not "normal". Do you watch Jeremy Kyle? I don't. "They" do though. And they don't just watch it, they LIKE it! The sooner you understand that, the easier it is to live with the world in all its stupidity.

 

[professorhat]

I can tell you are no professor and you talk through your hat. :clap:

Marvellous insult! No really! One of the best I've seen.

So, now I've recovered my split sides, you were going to enlighten me as to the original point you made that I failed to address? Or have we moved on from this now back to blind testing?

Glad you liked it. I think it's quite important that an amplifier performs to its spec, IOW if the manufacturer states the rated power on a speaker load of 4 ohms would it be acceptable if it dropped to half that and started to smoke? That type of thing wouldn't necessarily be discovered on a music listening test.

How about you?

Ah, so you missed my point - this could go on forever...

Whether or I think it's important or not, the point is, WHF won't publish these kinds of tests (even if they actually did them). And I've provided you the reasons why they won't do this. Whether or not you or I agree with those reasons is irrelevant in this case.

 

[Clare Newsome]

This in from Amazon this morning: headlines re the bestselling products in their first 15 years of trading in UK:

· ONE DIRECTION CLAIM FASTEST-SELLING ALBUM OF ALL TIME BASED ON PRE-ORDERS FOR MIDNIGHT MEMORIES.
· ADELE IS BEST-SELLING ARTIST OF ALL-TIME, WITH LADY GAGA AND RIHANNA ALSO IN TOP FIVE.
· CALL OF DUTY: MODERN WARFARE 2 TOPS GAMES CHART, BUT GRAND THEFT AUTO V IS FASTEST-SELLING GAMING TITLE OF ALL TIME.
· MAMMA MIA! BEATS HARRY POTTER TO CLAIM TITLE AS BEST-SELLING DVD OF ALL TIME.
· CHILDREN’S FAVOURITE DESPICABLE ME TAKES THE TITLE AS MOST-STREAMED FILM OF ALL-TIME ON LOVEFiLM.
· FINAL INSTALMENT IN THE HARRY POTTER SERIES, HARRY POTTER AND THE DEATHLY HALLOWS, IS THE FASTEST SELLING PRODUCT ON AMAZON.CO.UK OF ALL TIME.
· 'EL JAMES' FIFTY SHADES TRILOGY ARE BEST-SELLING BOOKS.

Just saying.

 

[spiny norman]

IOW if the manufacturer states the rated power on a speaker load of 4 ohms...

Ah, but they do things differently on the Isle of Wight

 

[Deleted member 2457]

I find some of these reviews a joke!

Why do what HiFi not do blinded equipment tests? That's the only real scientific way. I bet most people could be fooled into thinking they're listening to thousand pound systems by a cheap but decent system picked up from Tesco!

Do one then! :wave:

 

[professorhat]

BTW - you do know I'm not actually a professor? Or a hat.

Charlatan.

The relief of confession. This might inspire my next avatar...

 

[Alec]

You appear to be arguing in favour of dumbing down, which is disappointing for a self proclaimed professor. I think it's important to know whether or not a given piece of equipment meets its specification. Those that don't understand don't have to read it.

Sigh. What I'm arguing is, WHF has been one of the best selling hi-fi magazines for a long time in the UK. In all that time, they've never provided all the detailed analysis that some members of the hi-fi fraternity have called for, and have indeed argued against doing this many times, for the simple reason that, history shows most people don't want this.

Now, there are some that do and there are magazines which provide this for them (I believe you mentioned one earlier). So it makes sense for people that want these things to read those magazines, and leave the others for people that don't. Is that really so difficult to understand? Your argument that people that don't understand don't have to read it is non-sensical as (a) those people probably won't buy a magazine if it's full of graphs and confusing terms they don't know, thus readership goes down and (b) all of those measurements the minority want would be taking up space that could be filled with releavnt information that most people do want (or could even be used for adverts to help keep the magazine running and keep the cover price down).

I'm sure I know the real reason behind your involvement in this thread (i.e. yet another dig into the blind testing argument), but I'm answering for the benefit of the doubt.

You failed to address my main point entirely.

What's that - the fact that I'm a self-proclaimed professor who thinks people should be entitled to decide for themselves what they want to learn? Or the fact that other people disagree with something you think is important, and are therefore wrong?

BTW - you do know I'm not actually a professor? Or a hat.

YOUTAKETHATBACK!

 

[davedotco]

An interesting and amusing thread, but the real point to make is that dumbing down is endemic in this hobby and this forum is the living proof of it.

Not 'knowing' anything about hi-fi is not and never has been a problem, in the past people were recommended to visit a knowledgeable, often independent dealer who would take them through what the needed to know and put together a system that worked and suited their tastes and requirements.

This has stopped happening in more modern times (for a variety of reasons), product is bought on price, reputation and reviews, this is what buyers look for when they do their research. The how and why this equipment works (or doesn't) is, in the main, of no interest, it's too complicated, just buy the product with the 5*s as it's bound to be good.

 

[Alec]

BTW - you do know I'm not actually a professor? Or a hat.

Charlatan.

HA!

 

[bigboss]

So basically, a first poster starts this thread & doesn't return, and others are arguing over how What Hi Fi should run its business!

I'll be interested to know the business backgrounds of those who're teaching papa how to........

 

[Alec]

When wuz them halcyon daize when most punters nu all bout the teknikalities, then? Certainly prior to 1978.