My wife wants to give me a gift of this main cables but we can not decide which one to go. Is Russ Andrews classic powerkord better or the Clearer Audio copper-line power cable?
Thanks!
Thanks!
russ andrews or clearer audio main cable......
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daveh75
Well-known member
since they both offer money back guarantee's if your not completely satisfied, why not get both, keep the one you prefer and send t'other back!
Good advice on dong the comparison but if you can't be bothered I'm happy to give the ClearerAudio cables a positive reference - I replaced the cables to my amp, cd player and PVR/BluRay with CopperLine Alpha and my Kuro screen with CopperLine Alpha. Worth every penny - noticeable improvements and Darren at ClearerAudio is a thorough gentleman. Can't recommend them enough.
Damien Buckley:Good advice on dong the comparison but if you can't be bothered I'm happy to give the ClearerAudio cables a positive reference - I replaced the cables to my amp, cd player and PVR/BluRay with CopperLine Alpha and my Kuro screen with CopperLine Alpha. Worth every penny - noticeable improvements and Darren at ClearerAudio is a thorough gentleman. Can't recommend them enough.
Russ may well be a nice bloke too, but both are being somewhat creative with the fact of the matter, which is that mains leads cannot have any impact on the quality of reproduction. It's those darned laws of physics.
Russ may well be a nice bloke too, but both are being somewhat creative with the fact of the matter, which is that mains leads cannot have any impact on the quality of reproduction. It's those darned laws of physics.
Are you saying that all this mains cable issue is a waste of time & we should use the supplied mains cables?
Grimly Fiendish:
Damien Buckley:Good advice on dong the comparison but if you can't be bothered I'm happy to give the ClearerAudio cables a positive reference - I replaced the cables to my amp, cd player and PVR/BluRay with CopperLine Alpha and my Kuro screen with CopperLine Alpha. Worth every penny - noticeable improvements and Darren at ClearerAudio is a thorough gentleman. Can't recommend them enough.
Russ may well be a nice bloke too, but both are being somewhat creative with the fact of the matter, which is that mains leads cannot have any impact on the quality of reproduction. It's those darned laws of physics.
I said in my experience and thats what my comment relates to. If you dont like it ok but its not fair to suggest that excellent quality manufacturers like Russ Andrews and ClearerAudio (along with the entire What HiFi team and the majority of posters here) are being less than truthful because you have an alternative opinion. Have you tried both leads at home? I could hear the difference after swapping them over in my system and the cables were worth the money for me.
Damien Buckley:Good advice on dong the comparison but if you can't be bothered I'm happy to give the ClearerAudio cables a positive reference - I replaced the cables to my amp, cd player and PVR/BluRay with CopperLine Alpha and my Kuro screen with CopperLine Alpha. Worth every penny - noticeable improvements and Darren at ClearerAudio is a thorough gentleman. Can't recommend them enough.
Russ may well be a nice bloke too, but both are being somewhat creative with the fact of the matter, which is that mains leads cannot have any impact on the quality of reproduction. It's those darned laws of physics.
I said in my experience and thats what my comment relates to. If you dont like it ok but its not fair to suggest that excellent quality manufacturers like Russ Andrews and ClearerAudio (along with the entire What HiFi team and the majority of posters here) are being less than truthful because you have an alternative opinion. Have you tried both leads at home? I could hear the difference after swapping them over in my system and the cables were worth the money for me.
professorhat
Well-known member
Andytheplumber:Are you saying that all this mains cable issue is a waste of time & we should use the supplied mains cables
He is, but he'll also freely admit he's never actually tried it. Most of those which have can hear / see a difference (including me).
He is, but he'll also freely admit he's never actually tried it. Most of those which have can hear / see a difference (including me).
professorhat:Andytheplumber:Are you saying that all this mains cable issue is a waste of time & we should use the supplied mains cables
He is, but he'll also freely admit he's never actually tried it. Most of those which have can hear / see a difference (including me).
Some professor eh?
It's very simple. The mains lead doesn't carry any signals so is incapable of changing them, so any perceived changes are imagined.
He is, but he'll also freely admit he's never actually tried it. Most of those which have can hear / see a difference (including me).
Some professor eh?
It's very simple. The mains lead doesn't carry any signals so is incapable of changing them, so any perceived changes are imagined.
Amazing how changes can be 'imagined' with such regularity, including in blind testing!
I think a lot of people wouldn't mind punting £40 (with a money-back guarantee) to see if their imagination is fertile enough to conjure up a consistently better level of performance
I think a lot of people wouldn't mind punting £40 (with a money-back guarantee) to see if their imagination is fertile enough to conjure up a consistently better level of performance
We'll be getting on to the Creation Fallacy soon, if this is following the strangely familiar path...
Andrew Everard:
We'll be getting on to the Creation Fallacy soon, if this is following the strangely familiar path...
Err. Don't believe in creation myself...
I suspect that the differences heard are as much to do with preventing the power cable "interfering" with the audio signal in the interconnects or speaker cables as much as anything else.
Once you get inside most amps, you won't find fancy cabling....just simple hookup wire and copper PCBs.
But I'm no expert. Just trying to propose a reason why differences are heard.
We'll be getting on to the Creation Fallacy soon, if this is following the strangely familiar path...
Err. Don't believe in creation myself...
I suspect that the differences heard are as much to do with preventing the power cable "interfering" with the audio signal in the interconnects or speaker cables as much as anything else.
Once you get inside most amps, you won't find fancy cabling....just simple hookup wire and copper PCBs.
But I'm no expert. Just trying to propose a reason why differences are heard.
clivej:all i can say is that I use RA reference powerkords in my system, and i think they are exellent.
Ditto.....(Well. Mine are Classiks w/ W320, but you get the idea). A marked improvement over the freebies that came with my Arcams.
Ditto.....(Well. Mine are Classiks w/ W320, but you get the idea). A marked improvement over the freebies that came with my Arcams.
Clare Newsome:
Amazing how changes can be 'imagined' with such regularity, including in blind testing!
I think a lot of people wouldn't mind punting £40 (with a money-back guarantee) to see if their imagination is fertile enough to conjure up a consistently better level of performance
Hi Clare
I know of no properly conducted blind test on mains leads that has scored better than chance. If you know different could you post a link to one?
Ta.
Amazing how changes can be 'imagined' with such regularity, including in blind testing!
I think a lot of people wouldn't mind punting £40 (with a money-back guarantee) to see if their imagination is fertile enough to conjure up a consistently better level of performance
Hi Clare
I know of no properly conducted blind test on mains leads that has scored better than chance. If you know different could you post a link to one?
Ta.
In an ideal world our Mains supply would have no ripples, spikes or be contaminated with any RFI when it gets to our homes and goes around on the various ring circuits.
Unfortunately the mains comes into our beloved Hi-Fi equipment at what ever voltage the loading on the grid dictates, passes through a step down transformer tipically of a lowish VA rating (so not much smoothing happens), then onto a very cheap rectifier, then it osolates through caps, and wacks onto the amp circuits where it gets mixed in with the signal!
So therefore anything that improves this situation leads to more tuneful music. I don't know of anyone who has spent large somes of money on high end equipment not investing in decent cables to get as pure a sound as possible to the speakers.
A clean mains making no difference, you will be telling everybody soon the earth is still flat!
Unfortunately the mains comes into our beloved Hi-Fi equipment at what ever voltage the loading on the grid dictates, passes through a step down transformer tipically of a lowish VA rating (so not much smoothing happens), then onto a very cheap rectifier, then it osolates through caps, and wacks onto the amp circuits where it gets mixed in with the signal!
So therefore anything that improves this situation leads to more tuneful music. I don't know of anyone who has spent large somes of money on high end equipment not investing in decent cables to get as pure a sound as possible to the speakers.
A clean mains making no difference, you will be telling everybody soon the earth is still flat!
Grimly Fiendish:Clare Newsome:
Amazing how changes can be 'imagined' with such regularity, including in blind testing!
I think a lot of people wouldn't mind punting £40 (with a money-back guarantee) to see if their imagination is fertile enough to conjure up a consistently better level of performance
Hi Clare
I know of no properly conducted blind test on mains leads that has scored better than chance. If you know different could you post a link to one?
Ta.
Well we always blind test cables. Sounds like I need to post the ABX checksheet results from our next mains cable round-up - assuming we hear any differences with that batch, of course.
Amazing how changes can be 'imagined' with such regularity, including in blind testing!
I think a lot of people wouldn't mind punting £40 (with a money-back guarantee) to see if their imagination is fertile enough to conjure up a consistently better level of performance
Hi Clare
I know of no properly conducted blind test on mains leads that has scored better than chance. If you know different could you post a link to one?
Ta.
Well we always blind test cables. Sounds like I need to post the ABX checksheet results from our next mains cable round-up - assuming we hear any differences with that batch, of course.
trevor79:Unfortunately the mains comes into our beloved Hi-Fi equipment at what ever voltage the loading on the grid dictates, passes through a step down transformer tipically of a lowish VA rating (so not much smoothing happens), then onto a very cheap rectifier, then it osolates through caps, and wacks onto the amp circuits where it gets mixed in with the signal!
Not quite, Trev.
The smoothing is a function of the capacitors in the circuit, not the transformer. Those large capacitors eliminate the 100hz mains ripple by storing a charge from one peak to the next. In all the devices I've ever encountered there are also four small caps to filter the RFI caused by diode switching noise. This switching noise is far higher in amplitude than anything you'll ever find coming up the mains, so it must logically follow that if that is eliminated so is the rest.
Not quite, Trev.
The smoothing is a function of the capacitors in the circuit, not the transformer. Those large capacitors eliminate the 100hz mains ripple by storing a charge from one peak to the next. In all the devices I've ever encountered there are also four small caps to filter the RFI caused by diode switching noise. This switching noise is far higher in amplitude than anything you'll ever find coming up the mains, so it must logically follow that if that is eliminated so is the rest.
Clare / Andrew,
I would be more than willing to be an impartial "blind" tester if you decide to do a readers challenge on cables...
I would be more than willing to be an impartial "blind" tester if you decide to do a readers challenge on cables...
visionary
Well-known member
I'm with Grimly on this one.
Even if one accepts (quite reasonably) that the "bog standard" mains cable is made down to a price, you are spending your money on the electronics inside the box.
If you don't believe that the manufacturers of said box will use components in building it that smooth/absorb such interference (and by implication, quality components elsewhere in the circuitry) then why are you buying their product??
Even if one accepts (quite reasonably) that the "bog standard" mains cable is made down to a price, you are spending your money on the electronics inside the box.
If you don't believe that the manufacturers of said box will use components in building it that smooth/absorb such interference (and by implication, quality components elsewhere in the circuitry) then why are you buying their product??
ElectroMan
Well-known member
I tried a very impressive- and hefty-looking, mains cable a few years ago with a Bow Wizard CD player. The cable cost about £80 (can't remember the brand), but I couldn't notice any difference between that and the bog-standard kettle lead supplied with the player!
I'm not saying that mains leads & conditioners don't make a difference, although I find it difficult to believe they can make such an audible difference as some people claim.
I'm also not convinced that, for example, Russ Andrews' Balanced Mains Unit 3000 is actually worth over £2500 !
Even if it does make a difference, how is the price justified? I mean, basically it's an elaborate 2-way socket! I know it's got a 3kVA transformer, but how expensive are they (they start at under £100)? I know there's a trial period, but dare I suggest that anyone who can afford such a device is possibly predisposed to hear a difference?
I'm not saying that mains leads & conditioners don't make a difference, although I find it difficult to believe they can make such an audible difference as some people claim.
I'm also not convinced that, for example, Russ Andrews' Balanced Mains Unit 3000 is actually worth over £2500 !
Even if it does make a difference, how is the price justified? I mean, basically it's an elaborate 2-way socket! I know it's got a 3kVA transformer, but how expensive are they (they start at under £100)? I know there's a trial period, but dare I suggest that anyone who can afford such a device is possibly predisposed to hear a difference?
Greatly reduces hums, buzzes and all other kinds of externally induced noise introduced from the AC mains supply. RF and many major kinds of EMI are also rejected.
PS .....How many 3VA mains transformers do you have to sell me for £100 apiece?
Would appreciate posters putting up a list of there system, gives weight to their opinion!
PS .....How many 3VA mains transformers do you have to sell me for £100 apiece?
Would appreciate posters putting up a list of there system, gives weight to their opinion!
visionary
Well-known member
trevor79:
Would appreciate posters putting up a list of there system, gives weight to their opinion!
not necessarily helpful, if a person (some of them around here) drives a Ferrari (for example, not wanting to offend) that doesn't guarantee he/she's an expert driver!
Would appreciate posters putting up a list of there system, gives weight to their opinion!
not necessarily helpful, if a person (some of them around here) drives a Ferrari (for example, not wanting to offend) that doesn't guarantee he/she's an expert driver!
Have found them to be Very carefull drivers on the track!
Not so the buggers who drive caterhams!
Not so the buggers who drive caterhams!
PJPro:Andrew Everard:
We'll be getting on to the Creation Fallacy soon, if this is following the strangely familiar path...
I suspect that the differences heard are as much to do with preventing the power cable "interfering" with the audio signal in the interconnects or speaker cables as much as anything else.
This could be a reasonable theory - either way, whether you're reducing interference from entering the signal path of the power supply or preventing it from interfering with the interconnects / speaker cables, this cant be a bad thing?
What I can tell you is that before I bought the ClearerAudio CopperLine cables for my system I had previously brought home a A$1,000 Smart Power Station for trial and although it regulated the mains supply effectively; it made little or no difference to the sound, hence it went back.
Following this, I bought 2 x CopperLine and hooked them up to my amp and CD player. There was an immediate improvement - I could resolve small details which I hadnt noticed before and the soundstage was marginally improved- not a massive effect you understand but an improvement nonetheless, hence I bought another for my BluRay player and a CopperLine Alpha for my Kuro display. All have made minor, incremental improvements - which is pretty much what you expect from these types of enhancements.
So, at significant $$$'s each, I may have ordered the first set but without an improvement I wouldn't have bothered buying more.
Whatever the reason for the improvement, they worked for me - v-happy ; )
We'll be getting on to the Creation Fallacy soon, if this is following the strangely familiar path...
I suspect that the differences heard are as much to do with preventing the power cable "interfering" with the audio signal in the interconnects or speaker cables as much as anything else.
This could be a reasonable theory - either way, whether you're reducing interference from entering the signal path of the power supply or preventing it from interfering with the interconnects / speaker cables, this cant be a bad thing?
What I can tell you is that before I bought the ClearerAudio CopperLine cables for my system I had previously brought home a A$1,000 Smart Power Station for trial and although it regulated the mains supply effectively; it made little or no difference to the sound, hence it went back.
Following this, I bought 2 x CopperLine and hooked them up to my amp and CD player. There was an immediate improvement - I could resolve small details which I hadnt noticed before and the soundstage was marginally improved- not a massive effect you understand but an improvement nonetheless, hence I bought another for my BluRay player and a CopperLine Alpha for my Kuro display. All have made minor, incremental improvements - which is pretty much what you expect from these types of enhancements.
So, at significant $$$'s each, I may have ordered the first set but without an improvement I wouldn't have bothered buying more.
Whatever the reason for the improvement, they worked for me - v-happy ; )
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