Rega P3 Squeak and non starting issues

[Oxfordian]

My Rega P3 (2021 Vintage) has had to go back to Rega for investigation of a start up squeak and when on 45rpm (Neo powered) and playing a 180g LP the deck had to have a nudge to get it going.

Rega received the parcel on Monday and I received a call from my Hifi store today who have the TT back from Rega already with an update, Rega state that;

Firstly the start up squeak is normal, and just the belt gripping the pulley

Secondly having to give the platter a nudge to get it going is again quite normal, the increase in LP weight and the need to get up to 45rpm can mean that the deck may need a helping hand.

Now call me a cynic but this seems like a bull manure answer, is it really acceptable or normal for a deck to squeak on start up or need a nudge to get going when playing a 180g LP?

I am somewhat confused by Rega's response, if you develop a TT should it not be capable of starting up without squeaking and be able to start up and run with a 180g LP on the platter when the Neo is set to run at 45rpm, or am I expecting too much?

One thing that has been confirmed is that I am now firmly convinced that my TT needs to be upgraded if this is the standard that Rega aspire too, so my next TT will NOT be from Rega.

 

[WayneKerr]

Might not seem satisfactory but does sound plausible. My current Marantz turntable belt squeals like pig if I don't give the platter a good spin before starting the motor. Had a Project DC Carbon and that didn't squeal, but the platter was nowhere near as heavy as the one on the Marantz. Also got a Pioneer direct drive, no belt so no squeal on start-up.

 

[WayneKerr]

Maybe let it squeal away as it may lay down some rubber for improved traction on the pulley... ever seen them doing burn-outs at Santa Pod to lay some rubber down and reversing directly over those tracks

 

[DCarmi]

I have always given my P3 (1988) a nudge to start. It has a heavy platter and a thin belt. It seems only reasonable to give it a bit of assistance.

Because I give it a helping hand, I've never heard a squeak.

 

[Al ears]

Never had squeak or needed to assist when I had mine but then you had to physically move the belt onto a different pulley.
These days this doesn't seem acceptable practice to me.
Quality seems to be going backwards.

 

[Oxfordian]

Thanks for the feedback, I thought that I would just run through my LP playing process, maybe I'm doing something wrong;

On 33.3 each LP is placed on the platter before I turn the TT on, the squeak is there immediately the power switch is flicked to set the motor running. At the end of that side the TT is switched off, the LP removed, turned over and when the switched is flicked to get the platter moving the squeak is there immediately.

When playing a 45rpm LP the platter just does not move until I give it a gentle nudge to get it spinning, and yes it squeaks exactly the same as when playing a 33.3 LP.

I was told a good few years back that this was the best way of protecting the motor and not to try to place or remove LP's when the motor was running. I would also point out that whilst the LP is getting up to speed it is getting a dust off with a Carbon brush.

There is no noticeable issue with the set speed not being reached at any point.

 

[Oxfordian]

Maybe let it squeal away as it may lay down some rubber for improved traction on the pulley... ever seen them doing burn-outs at Santa Pod to lay some rubber down and reversing directly over those tracks

 

[WayneKerr]

Thanks for the feedback, I thought that I would just run through my LP playing process, maybe I'm doing something wrong;

On 33.3 each LP is placed on the platter before I turn the TT on, the squeak is there immediately the power switch is flicked to set the motor running. At the end of that side the TT is switched off, the LP removed, turned over and when the switched is flicked to get the platter moving the squeak is there immediately.

When playing a 45rpm LP the platter just does not move until I give it a gentle nudge to get it spinning, and yes it squeaks exactly the same as when playing a 33.3 LP.

I was told a good few years back that this was the best way of protecting the motor and not to try to place or remove LP's when the motor was running. I would also point out that whilst the LP is getting up to speed it is getting a dust off with a Carbon brush.

There is no noticeable issue with the set speed not being reached at any point.

Can't see your doing anything wrong

Personally, I add and remove the LP with the platter turning as I have the fabric mat in place so LP just skids, as for putting more strain on the motor I guess it's no different than starting it from stationary with the LP on the platter. Think the platter on my Marantz is around the 2kg mark.

As for 45rpm, obviously the Rega is fitted with a very low torque motor... if you want torque then get a direct drive... Technics?

 

[Oxfordian]

I have always given my P3 (1988) a nudge to start. It has a heavy platter and a thin belt. It seems only reasonable to give it a bit of assistance.

Because I give it a helping hand, I've never heard a squeak.

Clearly Rega believe not unrealistically that the set up works as your P3 is from 1988, mine from 2021, and the principal hasn't changed much in 30+ years, but the noise was heard by my HiFi dealer, they thought it may be a belt issue so we replaced the belt, no improvement, the store then made the call to have the deck go to Rega as they felt it was a faulty motor, but no.

Talking to the guys at the store today they indicated that their store demo P3 doesn't have this issue, they also confirmed that it is the first time that they have had confirmation from Rega that having a squeak is quite normal.

Either way it doesn't give me confidence in the TT so as soon as funds are available I will be looking for a new vinyl spinner.

 

[daytona600]

Secondly having to give the platter a nudge to get it going is again quite normal, the increase in LP weight and the need to get up to 45rpm can mean that the deck may need a helping hand.

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/nrXssIk4WyI

Need more Torque

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMZpgJ6qRI8

Rega buy a off the shelf , very old design low torque motor Project & Technics build there own DC motors with 21st electronic speed control

 

[Gray]

I understand your reaction to Rega's response.
But as others have suggested, it's not a bad idea to give some help on startup of a belt drive.

My old Thorens has a clever clutch arrangement to make startup smooth.
At least it would be clever if it had ever worked.
Despite me taking it apart and modifying springs and felt pads it's never really done the job.
The platter is quite a weight, so I always get it in motion as I start it.

And yes, me too with putting vinyl on and off while the platter is moving (but that's as much about habit from the old mobile disco days 🕺).

 

[Oxfordian]

Secondly having to give the platter a nudge to get it going is again quite normal, the increase in LP weight and the need to get up to 45rpm can mean that the deck may need a helping hand.

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/nrXssIk4WyI

Need more Torque

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMZpgJ6qRI8

Rega buy a off the shelf , very old design low torque motor Project & Technics build there own DC motors with 21st electronic speed control

Thanks that has made me smile

 

[Oxfordian]

I understand your reaction to Rega's response.
But as others have suggested, it's not a bad idea to give some help on startup of a belt drive.

My old Thorens has a clever clutch arrangement to make startup smooth.
At least it would be clever if it had ever worked.
Despite me taking it apart and modifying springs and felt pads it's never really done the job.
The platter is quite a weight, so I always get it in motion as I start it.

And yes, me too with putting vinyl on and off while the platter is moving (but that's as much about habit from the old mobile disco days 🕺).

I think I'll go back to putting vinyl on and off while the platter is rotating, going forward the deck will just be left running during listening sessions and only stopped and started where necessary.

I appreciate the comments that my issues may not be unusual, but I have to take into account that it was my Rega dealer who contacted Rega and following a conversation with them decided to send the deck to Rega, the store was also surprised by Rega's statement that it is normal, all of this just doesn't give me confidence in Rega long term. I appreciate that the P3 isn't a top end TT but it does have a reputation of being GVFM and has a good reputation for it's ability to get a fair bit of detail out of the grooves.

Short term it will stay, long term it will get replaced.

 

[nopiano]

I can understand your disappointment and surprise at the reply.

I’ve had a similar debate with Linn LP12 users, where many either help the platter or leave it running. Neither is satisfactory to me, and I had a Pioneer and Dual belt-drives before my first Linn and they worked as you’d expect. My Michell TecnoDec is a Rega rival and behaves as you wish yours did. (I bought it in 2011 because I thought it better finished than the contemporary Rega equivalent). The Technics I also now own starts in a flash, but it’s a DD!

Being able to start the platter seems like it should be in Chapter1 of necessary requirements. However, there is a technical argument in favour of very low torque/power motors because they should create the least vibration (unwanted).

It might be worth trying one of the old Linn tips, both no longer mentioned. One is to put some talc on the belt; the other is to wipe it with Pledge (a squirt on a clean cloth, and pull the belt through). I doubt either will cause a problem, and might just work

 

[Oxfordian]

I understand the logic of a low torque motor, slowly getting up to speed, I certainly don't expect the TT to be running at the correct speed within a micro second of being started, hence why I do the cleaning whilst the motor, belt, pulley and platter get their combined acts together and are ready for action.

A belt drive TT isn't uncommon in fact as far as I can see they are very common, so to owners of other branded belt driven decks, do you have a squeak on start up?

 

[Oxfordian]

I can understand your disappointment and surprise at the reply.

I’ve had a similar debate with Linn LP12 users, where many either help the platter or leave it running. Neither is satisfactory to me, and I had a Pioneer and Dual belt-drives before my first Linn and they worked as you’d expect. My Michell TecnoDec is a Rega rival and behaves as you wish yours did. (I bought it in 2011 because I thought it better finished than the contemporary Rega equivalent). The Technics I also now own starts in a flash, but it’s a DD!

Being able to start the platter seems like it should be in Chapter1 of necessary requirements. However, there is a technical argument in favour of very low torque/power motors because they should create the least vibration (unwanted).

It might be worth trying one of the old Linn tips, both no longer mentioned. One is to put some talc on the belt; the other is to wipe it with Pledge (a squirt on a clean cloth, and pull the belt through). I doubt either will cause a problem, and might just work

I'll try some talc on the belt, nothing to lose.

Interesting to hear that the TecnoDec has no squeak, also I like the Michell look, never heard one play so I'll put that on my list of decks to audition.

Thanks for chipping in.

 

[nopiano]

I'll try some talc on the belt, nothing to lose.

Interesting to hear that the TecnoDec has no squeak, also I like the Michell look, never heard one play so I'll put that on my list of decks to audition.

Thanks for chipping in.

You’re welcome. Here’s a pic I took when I first set it up. (The little box behind is a Rega Fono mini, long since sold - though excellent vfm)

https://imgur.com/vAbcc38

View: https://imgur.com/vAbcc38

 

[nopiano]

I understand the logic of a low torque motor, slowly getting up to speed, I certainly don't expect the TT to be running at the correct speed within a micro second of being started, hence why I do the cleaning whilst the motor, belt, pulley and platter get their combined acts together and are ready for action.

A belt drive TT isn't uncommon in fact as far as I can see they are very common, so to owners of other branded belt driven decks, do you have a squeak on start up?

Maybe it might be best to let it get up to speed before attempting any cleaning? Just a thought.

You may recall I used to sell Hifi (a part-time, Saturday job), The majority of turntables were belt-drive as you say. None squeaked. Dual, Trio, Sansui, JVC, BIC, Fons, STD, Era, Thorens, Pioneer, Akai, Leak, Goldring, Technics, Sonab, Yamaha are just some of the brands I recall. The old Acoustic Research deck - similarly sprung to the later Linn - used to shimmy a bit I recall, but no noises.

 

[Oxfordian]

Maybe it might be best to let it get up to speed before attempting any cleaning? Just a thought.

You may recall I used to sell Hifi (a part-time, Saturday job), The majority of turntables were belt-drive as you say. None squeaked. Dual, Trio, Sansui, JVC, BIC, Fons, STD, Era, Thorens, Pioneer, Akai, Leak, Goldring, Technics, Sonab, Yamaha are just some of the brands I recall. The old Acoustic Research deck - similarly sprung to the later Linn - used to shimmy a bit I recall, but no noises.

The squeak is immediate, as soon as power is suppled to the motor, the moment the switch is flicked on the squeak starts, I haven't even picked up the cleaning brush and the TT is doing its best mouse impression.

Maybe Rega have added a drop of oil or waved a wand or something over my TT whilst they have had it so I suppose that I will have to wait for it to return and then I'll be able to find out whether the squeak is the same or hopefully, gone.

 

[Gray]

the moment the switch is flicked on the squeak starts

Rega are effectively saying that, during startup, it's ok for the pulley to be moving for a while within a stationary belt.
It may well be 'normal' (for the model) but they surely know it's undesirable.

It's not as if the platter is especially heavy either is it?

There's a lot to be said for DD.

 

[daytona600]

.Rega very light platter. This one is also belt drive & Huge platter

 

[Oxfordian]

.Rega very light platter. This one is also belt drive & Huge platter

View attachment 4996

Now that’s a turntable

 

[DCarmi]

I remembered seeing a video on the squeak and found it. From Cheshire Audio.

 

[nopiano]

.Rega very light platter. This one is also belt drive & Huge platter

View attachment 4996

But I don’t think it would fit through my front door, let alone in the living room!!

 

[nopiano]

I remembered seeing a video on the squeak and found it. From Cheshire Audio.

Brilliant, what a good find/recall of yours. He says exactly what I did about the talc too!