Question Pro Ject S2 Digital or SMSL M500?

macaumetal

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Hi everyone,
I've been reading reviews and watching videos regarding both DACs, and I can't decide. Both seem to be very good for the price.
Currently I have a Dragonfly Cobalt, from my PC to a Yamaha AX369 connected to a pair of Paradigm Mini Monitor V7. I use Roon and I like MQA.
From the reviews I came across a lot of measurement charts that I can't fully understand. Those articles say that jitter and noise levels sometimes are imperceptible unless you have really good headphones, but I don't even listen with headphones.
This are the two options I have in terms of budget and availability here in Argentina,I don't have the chance to listen to them, and I wonder which one would be a step up in getting better sound.
I don't know if it's important for this but I mainly listen to Metal music.
So I reach to you to make an informed purchase and of course every input is useful and valuable.

Regards, and thanks!
 

Gray

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Hi to you in Argentina.
They both seem like nice units and I don't think you could go far wrong with either.
I would however, expect any audible differences to be subtle - not only between the two of them, but also, importantly, when compared with your Cobalt.
So I would warn you against expecting a night and day improvement on what you already have.
(Although their form factor is certainly different to your Cobalt and that may be important to you).

Most people will tell you that a change of amp and especially speakers will make a far greater sonic difference than a change from one (competent) DAC to another.

Unless you might genuinely benefit from the balanced (XLR) outputs of the SMSL at some future time....choosing between the two might come down to which you prefer the look of.
 
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macaumetal

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Hi to you in Argentina.
They both seem like nice units and I don't think you could go far wrong with either.
I would however, expect any audible differences to be subtle - not only between the two of them, but also, importantly, when compared with your Cobalt.
So I would warn you against expecting a night and day improvement on what you already have.
(Although their form factor is certainly different to your Cobalt and that may be important to you).

Most people will tell you that a change of amp and especially speakers will make a far greater sonic difference than a change from one (competent) DAC to another.

Unless you might genuinely benefit from the balanced (XLR) outputs of the SMSL at some future time....choosing between the two might come down to which you prefer the look of.

Thanks for you reply and advice.
According to the reviews I saw and read, I thought that maybe there could be an improvement in soundstage and detail by changing the DAC.
Regarding speakers or amp honestly I don't know what to look for, because I don't know what are the specs that would make a difference, any suggestions?

Thanks again
 

Gray

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I'm not suggesting that you need to change anything.
If you can though, try to listen to some different systems. That way you'll find out how vast the differences can be (and whether you prefer any difference over what you have).
Use reviews as a rough guide only and don't place too much importance on quoted specs.

Not always easy (especially now) but it is most helpful when a dealer allows you to try things in your own listening room before you buy (or at least allows returns).

Maybe experiment with the positioning of your current speakers if you can (the distance from walls / corners, room furnishings etc. can have a far greater influence on your sound than a change of DAC).
 

macaumetal

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I'm not suggesting that you need to change anything.
If you can though, try to listen to some different systems. That way you'll find out how vast the differences can be (and whether you prefer any difference over what you have).
Use reviews as a rough guide only and don't place too much importance on quoted specs.

Not always easy (especially now) but it is most helpful when a dealer allows you to try things in your own listening room before you buy (or at least allows returns).

Maybe experiment with the positioning of your current speakers if you can (the distance from walls / corners, room furnishings etc. can have a far greater influence on your sound than a change of DAC).

Thank you very much for the tips!!
 
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ThisIsJimmy

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Hello

reading ASR, both seem to have their issues:

SMSL M500: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/smsl-m500-dac-and-hp-amp-review.9606/
Project S2: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ct-pre-box-s2-dac-headphone-amp-review.10085/

I believe the original M500 was so bad that SMSL released a version 2 (SMSL M500 V2). If you want to go for either of them i'd suggest that one which SMSL have striven to address the numerous issues of the V1.

Personally I wouldn't purchase either.

Also can you confirm your use case this will be used for as both the models you have suggested are Headphone DAC AMPS. If that's what you are after, If you are able to purchase Topping products at all from Argentina, i'd recommend the Topping EX5. If this is not intended for Headphones, then i would look at a purpose built DAC.
 

macaumetal

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Hello

reading ASR, both seem to have their issues:

SMSL M500: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/smsl-m500-dac-and-hp-amp-review.9606/
Project S2: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ct-pre-box-s2-dac-headphone-amp-review.10085/

I believe the original M500 was so bad that SMSL released a version 2 (SMSL M500 V2). If you want to go for either of them i'd suggest that one which SMSL have striven to address the numerous issues of the V1.

Personally I wouldn't purchase either.

Also can you confirm your use case this will be used for as both the models you have suggested are Headphone DAC AMPS. If that's what you are after, If you are able to purchase Topping products at all from Argentina, i'd recommend the Topping EX5. If this is not intended for Headphones, then i would look at a purpose built DAC.

Hi @ThisIsJimmy
Thanks for the response!
Actually I never listen with headphones.
I thought a better dac would improve the detail, but maybe I'm wrong and in order to make it better I should replace other component or maybe I need a fortune to do it and I have to wait (meaning give up, heheh)
The thing is I'm a bit limited since HiFi/HiEnd equipment here is VERY expensive (The Pro-Ject for instance is $1035US dollars + another 100 for shipping. On a side note, due to exchange rate from US Dollars to Argentinian Pesos, it was $800 US when I posted...)
Anyway, like I said maybe in order to get to the next level I need to spend money I don't have.
Thanks again for taking the time to post the reply
Regards
 

ThisIsJimmy

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Hi @macaumetal

A decent linear DAC would may give your gear a boost. It needs to be remembered though that the sound will be as good as the weakest piece of equipment in the chain. I'm also trying to understand here why somethings are so expensive that you have listed. That Pro-Ject certainly isn't worth that many US$!

Doing some research, The Topping EX5 has the outputs for XLR and RCA (which your Yamaha AMP will take).

You can get it from Shenzen on worldwide shipping for $350 US (33878.25 ARS as of typing).....which in the scheme of high performance is a complete steal and completely out performs the SMSL M500 and gives you your MQA.


I was going to say that you might save money on just getting the DAC as a DAC......but on searching, their isn't anything that comes close to this for performance purposes. Heck, you then have the luxury of a high end headphone amplifier combined with this with balanced and unbalanced outputs in RCA, XLR, and headphone outputs. What is there not to like!


having looked into your currency, I can see how this would seem expensive though. 9.50ARS for a loaf of bread put's things into perspective :(
 

macaumetal

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Well I hope it was that easy, @ThisIsJimmy
The exchange rate is 1USD= 102ARS, which would make the Topping cost $35.700 so far so good.
BUT there's a 65% tax when you purchase in USD, so the actual exchange rate is 1USD=169ARS, and now the DAC is 59150. There's also a 50% customs tax which would make the value increase to 88725ARS wich converted to dollars would be 525USD TODAY. Keep in mind that from monday to tuesday it was 200USD more expensive...
Anyway I'll consider it ....thanks again
 

macaumetal

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Hi @macaumetal

A decent linear DAC would may give your gear a boost. It needs to be remembered though that the sound will be as good as the weakest piece of equipment in the chain. I'm also trying to understand here why somethings are so expensive that you have listed. That Pro-Ject certainly isn't worth that many US$!

Doing some research, The Topping EX5 has the outputs for XLR and RCA (which your Yamaha AMP will take).

You can get it from Shenzen on worldwide shipping for $350 US (33878.25 ARS as of typing).....which in the scheme of high performance is a complete steal and completely out performs the SMSL M500 and gives you your MQA.


I was going to say that you might save money on just getting the DAC as a DAC......but on searching, their isn't anything that comes close to this for performance purposes. Heck, you then have the luxury of a high end headphone amplifier combined with this with balanced and unbalanced outputs in RCA, XLR, and headphone outputs. What is there not to like!


having looked into your currency, I can see how this would seem expensive though. 9.50ARS for a loaf of bread put's things into perspective :(

Hi @ThisIsJimmy after a lot of doubts and thinking, I finally went with the Topping you suggested. Bought it fron Shenzen at aproximately $89.000 ARS which compared to the $174.000 for the S2 Digital or $90.000ARS for the ifi nano, seemed to be worth it.
Now let's hope everything is ok with the delivery 🤞
Thanks for the help!
 

ThisIsJimmy

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Hi @ThisIsJimmy after a lot of doubts and thinking, I finally went with the Topping you suggested. Bought it fron Shenzen at aproximately $89.000 ARS which compared to the $174.000 for the S2 Digital or $90.000ARS for the ifi nano, seemed to be worth it.
Now let's hope everything is ok with the delivery 🤞
Thanks for the help!
No problems. I hope it all turns up well. Let us know your feedback on this too once you get it.
 

macaumetal

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Well, this thursday I was the luckiest man on earth!
Last time I told you @ThisIsJimmy that I bought the Topping EX5 form aprox $89.000ARS. I made the purchase last Friday. Yesterday it arrived.
Not only it was delivered 10 minutes before I left work so I could play with it all day, but the customs tax was only 3000ARS (It should have been 50% of 59k )
So I got it from the other side of the world in 4 business days (faster than some domestic shipments!) and for 62k while I sold my Cobalt for 65!

Anyway, the real test was listening for the first time. I loved the Cobalt, but this is different. It expanded the soundstage by maybe 30%, the songs sound more detailed and clear but twhat amazed me the most is the sense of depth, the sensation of knowing where each instrument is positioned. Still a lot of music to listen...and now DSD as well!!

Well, I'm telling this because it was really helpful and you were so nice with your help that I ended up following your recommendation and gettting an excellent product, thank you very much!
 

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ThisIsJimmy

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That's awesome news @macaumetal . Even making yourself 3000ASR overall from the sale of your AudioQuest was a great move. I'm glad you like it.

Toppings DAC and AMP equipment tends to be very Linear. Coupled with the superb Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR), it realy helps bring out the detail, so you can guarantee any sound nuances will now be from your headphones or your speakers which will always make it a fun experience when you want to switch it up. Enjoy!

Be warned, being an audiophile is a very expensive hobby once you get hooked ;)
 
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Gray

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Toppings DAC and AMP equipment tends to be very Linear.
You probably got a printed frequency response plot with yours Jimmy. When I looked at the one that came with my A50S, I thought they'd left the trace off - it didn't stray from the zero line.

I've said before that the members here should be on commission for giving genuine advice.
YouTube 'influencers' rake in the money for reading out manufacturers' blurb (it's clear some don't even know what they're selling).

Still, it's nice to know that you've done an appreciative person a favour (y)
 
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macaumetal

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Be warned, being an audiophile is a very expensive hobby once you get hooked

Yeah, and not for the anxious people (unless you have the money🤷‍♀️) but this is the start of my journey, I'm 41, I have a lot of time to explore it, and exercise my patience along the way it's a win-win situation, hehe.
Thanks again for everything
All the best
 
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macaumetal

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Still, it's nice to know that you've done an appreciative person a favour

Without his recommendation I would have paid an unnecessary amount of money for a product that clearly was overpriced.
So this kind of "advices" or maybe sharing just one link from someone who genuinely care to help (I mean he even searched for the exchange rates to ARS!) for us in places we don't have access to some things or know very little of the technical aspect is tremendoulsy valuable and help us make an more informed purchase.
BUT thanks to you too @Gray because I keep in mind what you told me about receivers and speakers, and it is something I'll also explore in the future.
Besides this all started with your first reply;)(y)
Regards!
 
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ThisIsJimmy

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You probably got a printed frequency response plot with yours Jimmy. When I looked at the one that came with my A50S, I thought they'd left the trace off - it didn't stray from the zero line.
I did indeed Gray. Toppings D90 result was flatter than ASRs, but practically indistinguishable. It's just a piece of paper though unless it's independently validated which they have been. That gives confidence on buying and recommending products. :)
I've said before that the members here should be on commission for giving genuine advice.
YouTube 'influencers' rake in the money for reading out manufacturers' blurb (it's clear some don't even know what they're selling).
hahahaha. We both know we all give advice on here because we care about the community rather than promoting products. As for the latter part in brackets i'm saying nothing :)
 
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