Pre amp bridging 2 power amps

[Blacksabbath25]

Can someone explain to me what are the advantages in using a pre amp and 2 power amps .

i got it in mind to buy a pre amp and 2 power amps so I can use each power amp for each speaker what I am expecting is more space around the instruments the abrahamsen does a good job but can not help but feel if I buy 2 abrahamsen power amps and a pre it will take me to a different level of sound quality . Would I gain anything from doing this or is this just a wast of money . I understand that some people believe it's better to run a pre amp separately then using a normal amp which is I know pre and power in one box .

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Hay Sabbath.I personally think it could be time to look at your source(s) before looking at any further amp upgrades.the amp can't use what's not comming through from the source.A good higher end cd player could be the order of the day.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Hay Sabbath.I personally think it could be time to look at your source(s) before looking at any further amp upgrades.the amp can't use what's not comming through from the source.A good higher end cd player could be the order of the day.

I am using the abrahamsen 1up cdplayer which is very good

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

So is your amp.if I remember correctly you likened it to a 2k amp..so on that basis you should be looking for a player of the naim cd5xs or of similar standing from the other manufacturers....Leema,Roksan,primareetc.or be done with it and get a michell gyrodec and tom evans groove phono stage and spin some of that darn vinyl your holding on to.lol.

 

[BigH]

When will you ever stop?

How about buying a turntable instead.

 

[Electro]

Can someone explain to me what are the advantages in using a pre amp and 2 power amps .

i got it in mind to buy a pre amp and 2 power amps so I can use each power amp for each speaker what I am expecting is more space around the instruments the abrahamsen does a good job but can not help but feel if I buy 2 abrahamsen power amps and a pre it will take me to a different level of sound quality . Would I gain anything from doing this or is this just a wast of money . I understand that some people believe it's better to run a pre amp separately then using a normal amp which is I know pre and power in one box .

If you were to buy an Abrahamsen preamp and two power amps and connected them in a bi amp configuration ie one power amp drives the bass units and the other drives the mid/top then it would make little or no improvement over your V2.0 to the sound quality, in fact it would be a bit of a waste of money.

But if you were to bridge the stereo power amps into monoblocks you would increase the ouput power up to a possible 280 wpc into 8 ohms !

You could also put the mono power amps right next to the speakers and use very short thick speaker cables .

To connect the preamp to the mono power amps use long balanced xlr microphone cables, one to each power amp.

The result will be a world class amplifier system for relative peanuts that will make a substantial improvement, it will drive any hifi speaker perfectly and you can expect even better dynamics, detail and much larger scale and lots more of that sense of effortlessness and being there.

I would say that the combination of the Abrahamsen V3.0preamp and two V4.0 power amps bridged into monoblocks has to be the amplifier bargain of the decade at £2539, imo of course *smile* .

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Turntable will have to wait .. I've got my speakers sorted I like them they set me back £2000 . And yes I did say the abrahamsen is good as a £2000 amp and I still stand by that it's a great amp . I just wanted to know about the bridging of 2 power amps both will be using 1000va power supplies together with using a pre amp I will stick with abrahamsen stuff and do not want to change What's your thoughts on this

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Can someone explain to me what are the advantages in using a pre amp and 2 power amps .

i got it in mind to buy a pre amp and 2 power amps so I can use each power amp for each speaker what I am expecting is more space around the instruments the abrahamsen does a good job but can not help but feel if I buy 2 abrahamsen power amps and a pre it will take me to a different level of sound quality . Would I gain anything from doing this or is this just a wast of money . I understand that some people believe it's better to run a pre amp separately then using a normal amp which is I know pre and power in one box .

If you were to buy an Abrahamsen preamp and two power amps and connected them in a bi amp configuration ie one power amp drives the bass units and the other drives the mid/top then it would make little or no improvement over your V2.0 to the sound quality, in fact it would be a bit of a waste of money.

But if you were to bridge the stereo power amps into monoblocks you would increase the ouput power up to a possible 280 wpc into 8 ohms !

You could also put the mono power amps right next to the speakers and use very short thick speaker cables .

To connect the preamp to the mono power amps use long balanced xlr microphone cables, one to each power amp.

The result will be a world class amplifier system for relative peanuts that will make a substantial improvement, it will drive any hifi speaker perfectly and you can expect even better dynamics, detail and much larger scale and lots more of that sense of effortlessness and being there.

I would say that the combination of the Abrahamsen V3.0preamp and two V4.0 power amps bridged into monoblocks has to be the amplifier bargain of the decade at £2539, imo of course *smile* .

hi yes this is what I am trying to say 1. Abrahamsen pre amp , 2 abrahamsen 4ups bridged into mono blocks is this wouth it money wise to do this is it a proper upgrade and my speakers are 4ohm speakers so they should double up

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

You must have a very large room to fill sabbath . or your deaf as a post.

 

[BigH]

For me I doubt it would be worth it, spending £2,000 on power amps at the listening levels I use I doubt I would hear much difference. You seem to have got into the habit of buying something and then wanting to change soon afterwards, maybe you should wait a while and try to break this habit or it could be never ending.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

You must have a very large room to fill sabbath . or your deaf as a post.

lol it's not about watts I am more interested in the sound quality it will give as the abrahamsen on its own is good but using a pre amp and 2 power amps one for each speaker should give me the ultimate sound it's should give me more separation around the instruments and even more grip on the bass then just using the abrahamsen 2up on its own

 

[davedotco]

Is a fairly well known technique and many, though not all amplifiers accomodate this.

The general rule is that you get 'twice the power into twice the impedance', ie a stereo amplifier giving 70 watts into 8 ohms becomes a mono amplifier giving 140 watts into 16 ohms. Or as you say, 280 watts into 8 ohms.

However when bridged the minimum impedance that the amplifier can drive is doubled so a 4 ohm speaker is seen by the amplifier as a 2 ohm speaker and if the speaker has a minimum impedance of, say, 2 ohms then the amplifiers will be seeing just 1 ohm.

Good as the Abrahamsens are, I doubt they are, when bridged, going to be comfortable trying to produce substantial power into those sorts of loads. In theory, tha amplifier would be trying to produce enough current to deliver 2040 watts into 1 ohm.

Bridged amplifiers are normally at their best driving high impedance speakers, the Abrahamsens might just be good enough in your situation though personally, it is not a route I would take.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Is a fairly well known technique and many, though not all amplifiers accomodate this.

The general rule is that you get 'twice the power into twice the impedance', ie a stereo amplifier giving 70 watts into 8 ohms becomes a mono amplifier giving 140 watts into 16 ohms. Or as you say, 280 watts into 8 ohms.

However when bridged the minimum impedance that the amplifier can drive is doubled so a 4 ohm speaker is seen by the amplifier as a 2 ohm speaker and if the speaker has a minimum impedance of, say, 2 ohms then the amplifiers will be seeing just 1 ohm.

Good as the Abrahamsens are, I doubt they are, when bridged, going to be comfortable trying to produce substantial power into those sorts of loads. In theory, tha amplifier would be trying to produce enough current to deliver 2040 watts into 1 ohm.

Bridged amplifiers are normally at their best driving high impedance speakers, the Abrahamsens might just be good enough in your situation though personally, it is not a route I would take.

what route would you take ? As I am not interested in active speakers and I like the speakers I have and I thought the best way to get a top sound. Quality was by using mono blocks and a pre

 

[Al ears]

Personally I don't know how much of an improvement you yourself will hear but if going pre/power I would forget bridged stereo power amps as its a waste of money. Go for two monoblocks by all means.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Personally I don't know how much of an improvement you yourself will hear but if going pre/power I would forget bridged stereo power amps as its a waste of money. Go for two monoblocks by all means.

what the nord mono's ? and a pre

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Well.... if your on the never ending upgrade path.....which it seems to be the case then naim will happily take all the cash you have with probably the most diverse routes and different levels of amplification available from 1k integrated right up to statement at around 160k for the pre amp and two power amps.and if that's not enough they'll happily give you psu's,power lines,hi lines etc etc.

 

[Electro]

Is a fairly well known technique and many, though not all amplifiers accomodate this.

The general rule is that you get 'twice the power into twice the impedance', ie a stereo amplifier giving 70 watts into 8 ohms becomes a mono amplifier giving 140 watts into 16 ohms. Or as you say, 280 watts into 8 ohms.

However when bridged the minimum impedance that the amplifier can drive is doubled so a 4 ohm speaker is seen by the amplifier as a 2 ohm speaker and if the speaker has a minimum impedance of, say, 2 ohms then the amplifiers will be seeing just 1 ohm.

Good as the Abrahamsens are, I doubt they are, when bridged, going to be comfortable trying to produce substantial power into those sorts of loads. In theory, tha amplifier would be trying to produce enough current to deliver 2040 watts into 1 ohm.

Bridged amplifiers are normally at their best driving high impedance speakers, the Abrahamsens might just be good enough in your situation though personally, it is not a route I would take.

Normally you would be right there is always that low impedance price to pay when bridging amplifiers, but Abrahamsen amps are designed to be bridged hence the large power supplys and extremely high amount of current delivery , 2040 watts into 1 ohm for very short periods is possible.

I don't have the specs for the power output of bridged Abrahamsen amps into low impedances but I suspect it will be similar to Electrocompaniet Amps in which case looking at the bridged models in the Electrocompaniet range the AW400 ( 2x AW120's bridged ) and AW600 Nemo both are stable into all loads down to 0.5 of an ohm and produce 400, 765 and 1010 wpc into 8,4 and 2 ohms and 600, 1200 wpc into 8 and 4 ohms for the Nemo which is really just 4x AW180 mono's bridged.

Bryston do a similar thing with their larger power amps.

 

[Al ears]

Personally I don't know how much of an improvement you yourself will hear but if going pre/power I would forget bridged stereo power amps as its a waste of money. Go for two monoblocks by all means.

what the nord mono's ? and a pre

Never heard them but by all accounts they are quite good for the money.

 

[davedotco]

Is a fairly well known technique and many, though not all amplifiers accomodate this.

The general rule is that you get 'twice the power into twice the impedance', ie a stereo amplifier giving 70 watts into 8 ohms becomes a mono amplifier giving 140 watts into 16 ohms. Or as you say, 280 watts into 8 ohms.

However when bridged the minimum impedance that the amplifier can drive is doubled so a 4 ohm speaker is seen by the amplifier as a 2 ohm speaker and if the speaker has a minimum impedance of, say, 2 ohms then the amplifiers will be seeing just 1 ohm.

Good as the Abrahamsens are, I doubt they are, when bridged, going to be comfortable trying to produce substantial power into those sorts of loads. In theory, tha amplifier would be trying to produce enough current to deliver 2040 watts into 1 ohm.

Bridged amplifiers are normally at their best driving high impedance speakers, the Abrahamsens might just be good enough in your situation though personally, it is not a route I would take.

Normally you would be right there is always that low impedance price to pay when bridging amplifiers, but Abrahamsen amps are designed to be bridged hence the large power supplys and extremely high amount of current delivery , 2040 watts into 1 ohm for very short periods is possible.

I don't have the specs for the power output of bridged Abrahamsen amps into low impedances but I suspect it will be similar to Electrocompaniet Amps in which case looking at the bridged models in the Electrocompaniet range the AW400 ( 2x AW120's bridged ) and AW600 Nemo both are stable into all loads down to 0.5 of an ohm and produce 400, 765 and 1010 wpc into 8,4 and 2 ohms and 600, 1200 wpc into 8 and 4 ohms for the Nemo which is really just 4x AW180 mono's bridged.

Bryston do a similar thing with their larger power amps.

But both the big Electros and the big Brystons are even more heavily built and powerful than the more modest V40up, the AWs in particular may be based on bridged designs (i don't know) but are clearly optimised for more normal, lower impedances.

Anyway, just pointing out the possible pitfalls of using stereo amplifiers in bridge mode rather than the more obvious route of simply using two purposebuilt monoblocks, which need have no such issues with low impedances.

So that would be my way forward were I putting to gether a high power pre-power combo, though at present this is not possible using Abrahamsen amplifiers.

Edited; To point out that although I have plenty of experience with bridging amplifiers, I have none with the Abrahamsen amplifiers, this is more a general view of the limits of using bridged stereo amplifiers into low impedance loudspeakers.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Is a fairly well known technique and many, though not all amplifiers accomodate this.

The general rule is that you get 'twice the power into twice the impedance', ie a stereo amplifier giving 70 watts into 8 ohms becomes a mono amplifier giving 140 watts into 16 ohms. Or as you say, 280 watts into 8 ohms.

However when bridged the minimum impedance that the amplifier can drive is doubled so a 4 ohm speaker is seen by the amplifier as a 2 ohm speaker and if the speaker has a minimum impedance of, say, 2 ohms then the amplifiers will be seeing just 1 ohm.

Good as the Abrahamsens are, I doubt they are, when bridged, going to be comfortable trying to produce substantial power into those sorts of loads. In theory, tha amplifier would be trying to produce enough current to deliver 2040 watts into 1 ohm.

Bridged amplifiers are normally at their best driving high impedance speakers, the Abrahamsens might just be good enough in your situation though personally, it is not a route I would take.

Normally you would be right there is always that low impedance price to pay when bridging amplifiers, but Abrahamsen amps are designed to be bridged hence the large power supplys and extremely high amount of current delivery , 2040 watts into 1 ohm for very short periods is possible.

I don't have the specs for the power output of bridged Abrahamsen amps into low impedances but I suspect it will be similar to Electrocompaniet Amps in which case looking at the bridged models in the Electrocompaniet range the AW400 ( 2x AW120's bridged ) and AW600 Nemo both are stable into all loads down to 0.5 of an ohm and produce 400, 765 and 1010 wpc into 8,4 and 2 ohms and 600, 1200 wpc into 8 and 4 ohms for the Nemo which is really just 4x AW180 mono's bridged.

Bryston do a similar thing with their larger power amps.

But both the big Electros and the big Brystons are even more heavily built and powerful than the more modest V40up, the AWs in particular may be based on bridged designs (i don't know) but are clearly optimised for more normal, lower impedances.

Anyway, just pointing out the possible pitfalls of using stereo amplifiers in bridge mode rather than the more obvious route of simply using two purposebuilt monoblocks, which need have no such issues with low impedances.

So that would be my way forward were I putting to gether a high power pre-power combo, though at present this is not possible using Abrahamsen amplifiers.

Edited; To point out that although I have plenty of experience with bridging amplifiers, I have none with the Abrahamsen amplifiers, this is more a general view of the limits of using bridged stereo amplifiers into low impedance loudspeakers.

so what mono block amps do you recommend then that would be good choice *smile*

 

[Electro]

so what mono block amps do you recommend then that would be good choice *smile*

A pair of these would be the last power amps you will ever need to buy .

No affiliation .

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ELECTROCOMPANIET-AWB-180-MONOBLOCKS-250-WATTS-/282011352288?hash=item41a92fbce0:g:X~oAAOSwKfVXFz0U*biggrin*

 

[Blacksabbath25]

so what mono block amps do you recommend then that would be good choice *smile*

A pair of these would be the last power amps you will ever need to buy .

No affiliation .

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ELECTROCOMPANIET-AWB-180-MONOBLOCKS-250-WATTS-/282011352288?hash=item41a92fbce0:g:X~oAAOSwKfVXFz0U*biggrin*

nice but so far ive got £2000 saved

 

[BigH]

so what mono block amps do you recommend then that would be good choice *smile*

A pair of these would be the last power amps you will ever need to buy .

No affiliation .

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ELECTROCOMPANIET-AWB-180-MONOBLOCKS-250-WATTS-/282011352288?hash=item41a92fbce0:g:X~oAAOSwKfVXFz0U*biggrin*

Oh EmporiumHiFi.

 

[davedotco]

Is a fairly well known technique and many, though not all amplifiers accomodate this.

The general rule is that you get 'twice the power into twice the impedance', ie a stereo amplifier giving 70 watts into 8 ohms becomes a mono amplifier giving 140 watts into 16 ohms. Or as you say, 280 watts into 8 ohms.

However when bridged the minimum impedance that the amplifier can drive is doubled so a 4 ohm speaker is seen by the amplifier as a 2 ohm speaker and if the speaker has a minimum impedance of, say, 2 ohms then the amplifiers will be seeing just 1 ohm.

Good as the Abrahamsens are, I doubt they are, when bridged, going to be comfortable trying to produce substantial power into those sorts of loads. In theory, tha amplifier would be trying to produce enough current to deliver 2040 watts into 1 ohm.

Bridged amplifiers are normally at their best driving high impedance speakers, the Abrahamsens might just be good enough in your situation though personally, it is not a route I would take.

Normally you would be right there is always that low impedance price to pay when bridging amplifiers, but Abrahamsen amps are designed to be bridged hence the large power supplys and extremely high amount of current delivery , 2040 watts into 1 ohm for very short periods is possible.

I don't have the specs for the power output of bridged Abrahamsen amps into low impedances but I suspect it will be similar to Electrocompaniet Amps in which case looking at the bridged models in the Electrocompaniet range the AW400 ( 2x AW120's bridged ) and AW600 Nemo both are stable into all loads down to 0.5 of an ohm and produce 400, 765 and 1010 wpc into 8,4 and 2 ohms and 600, 1200 wpc into 8 and 4 ohms for the Nemo which is really just 4x AW180 mono's bridged.

Bryston do a similar thing with their larger power amps.

But both the big Electros and the big Brystons are even more heavily built and powerful than the more modest V40up, the AWs in particular may be based on bridged designs (i don't know) but are clearly optimised for more normal, lower impedances.

Anyway, just pointing out the possible pitfalls of using stereo amplifiers in bridge mode rather than the more obvious route of simply using two purposebuilt monoblocks, which need have no such issues with low impedances.

So that would be my way forward were I putting to gether a high power pre-power combo, though at present this is not possible using Abrahamsen amplifiers.

Edited; To point out that although I have plenty of experience with bridging amplifiers, I have none with the Abrahamsen amplifiers, this is more a general view of the limits of using bridged stereo amplifiers into low impedance loudspeakers.

so what mono block amps do you recommend then that would be good choice *smile*

I have not been involved regularly in serious hi-fi (multi thousand pound components) for more than 15 years so I have no real idea of what represents good value for money.

On paper, the V40up looks such remarkable value that you would need something very special to better it at anything like comparable pricing, I could trot out the usual, mostly American, brands but they will be very pricy, I am sure there are some fine amplifiers at sensible prices out there but I would really need hands on to know which.

That said, were I looking, I would make a start with the Nad M22 Master Series and maybe the new Benchmark AHB2, neither are cheap but they are a lot less than many of the alternatives.

 

[Al ears]

Heard good things about the Heed Obilisk PM's (not heard myself) but they are£1400 each....... ouch!