Pre amp bridging 2 power amps

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The trick with naim gear is....don't buy it new,wait until someone else needs to offload their gear to travel the naim upgrade ladder.Loads of it on the bay,well looked after kit,lasts for years and years,Go demo something in a shop....you don't need to buy...my nait xs was a £1500 amp new and I got it for £750 last year,it's only been powered down about 5-8 times in that year.you leave them on all the time you see.it's a fantastic amp nice and smooth and highly detailed,I've not heard a pre/power combo yet but it is the naim philosophy of keeping the pre amp section separate from the power amp section and it seems to be very successful for them and of course they have all the power supply units,flatcap xs,hicap and the super cap going from lowest to highest,these supply the delicate current needed to the pre amp section and the hi cap and supercap have recently had a discrete regulator (dr)update on them along with the newer pre amps.the 150xs series are the entry level pre/power combos then the 200's,300's and so on.you don't need power supply units for 150 or entry level 200's but above them...I believe that the pre amp needs the appropriate psu..hicap/supercap to power it.hope I've slightly cleared some of the naim stuff for you.but I think you'd need a entry 200 series for a decent upgrade from the Abramsem....I could be wrong and the 155/152xs (I think that's the correct model number off the top of my head)might do the trick.but you'd defo have to go have a wee listen at a dealers before commiting yourself.oh just seen your post,most sellers will put the year of manufacture on the listing or the serial number....go online and type in naim serial numbers and you'll find the serial number for all the years and don't worry about age with this stuff,naim can still service and fix just about anything they ever made.if it ever goes wrong.And yes they are at the forefront of the streaming end of the market and also make some of the finest cd players.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

The trick with naim gear is....don't buy it new,wait until someone else needs to offload their gear to travel the naim upgrade ladder.Loads of it on the bay,well looked after kit,lasts for years and years,Go demo something in a shop....you don't need to buy...my nait xs was a £1500 amp new and I got it for £750 last year,it's only been powered down about 5-8 times in that year.you leave them on all the time you see.it's a fantastic amp nice and smooth and highly detailed,I've not heard a pre/power combo yet but it is the naim philosophy of keeping the pre amp section separate from the power amp section and it seems to be very successful for them and of course they have all the power supply units,flatcap xs,hicap and the super cap going from lowest to highest,these supply the delicate current needed to the pre amp section and the hi cap and supercap have recently had a discrete regulator (dr)update on them along with the newer pre amps.the 150xs series are the entry level pre/power combos then the 200's,300's and so on.you don't need power supply units for 150 or entry level 200's but above them...I believe that the pre amp needs the appropriate psu..hicap/supercap to power it.hope I've slightly cleared some of the naim stuff for you.but I think you'd need a entry 200 series for a decent upgrade from the Abramsem....I could be wrong and the 155/152xs (I think that's the correct model number off the top of my head)might do the trick.but you'd defo have to go have a wee listen at a dealers before commiting yourself.oh just seen your post,most sellers will put the year of manufacture on the listing or the serial number....go online and type in naim serial numbers and you'll find the serial number for all the years and don't worry about age with this stuff,naim can still service and fix just about anything they ever made.

yes ok thanks mark I might just go for a demo on one of there normal integrated amps to see what kind of sound they give as I've never heard any naim stuff in all the years I've liked Hifi so will be interesting to see what you get for your money

 

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Yeah.they definitely deserve a listen to.....the 5si is the entry level integrated then the nait xs2 and the supernait2,all can be had within your budget but the supernait2 would have to be a used unit for that cash.enjoy.

 

[TomSawyer]

Have you considered a Cambridge Audio 851e and 851w. Before you dismiss it, read Andrew Everard's review

http://www.audioappraisal.com/review-cambridge-audio-851e-851w-prepower-combo/

I know you like a power supply with a bit to spare, well the 851w has a maximum power consumption of 2400w and produces 200w into 8 ohms stereo or 500w into 8 ohms bridged mono.

£2200 as a packaged pair at RS and should be easy to audition - what have you got to lose.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Have you considered a Cambridge Audio 851e and 851w. Before you dismiss it, read Andrew Everard's review

http://www.audioappraisal.com/review-cambridge-audio-851e-851w-prepower-combo/

I know you like a power supply with a bit to spare, well the 851w has a maximum power consumption of 2400w and produces 200w into 8 ohms stereo or 500w into 8 ohms bridged mono.

£2200 as a packaged pair at RS and should be easy to audition - what have you got to lose.

I had a demo on the Cambridge cx80 which I thought sounded better then the arcam a19 , a29 but I am not a fan of stuff made in China as they seem to use cheap components inside there stuff I've seen people come on here before were there amps fail before the warranty runs out the same with roskin amps I did not like the k3 sound and they have issues being reliable the same with arcam I did not like the arcam a19 or the a29 both sounded thin uninvolving but the arcam a39 sounded a lot better as this has a big power supply . You see the roksan k3 is £1300 , the arcam a39 £1500 but my abrahamsen is still better and my amp cost £900 new and it's a better amp then both of those amps . The only amp that will beat my amp is the hegal h360 which costs £3500 and that uses a sound engine and the power supply on the hegal is 1200va . So I have some options go the abrahamsen route and buy a pre/ power amp , look at naim but it's expensive , buy some mono blocks & pre or save a little more and go the dark side and buy a hegal h360

 

[TomSawyer]

Obviously, it's your money so it's your choice. But don't think a CXA80 is an 851w. For the sake of an hour to audition, make sure it's not for you. The Hegel power supply is impressive at 1200VA but it's not 2400VA like the 851w.

And I hear what you say about failures but let's face it, you don't keep anything long enough for it to fail *wink*

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Obviously, it's your money so it's your choice. But don't think a CXA80 is an 851w. For the sake of an hour to audition, make sure it's not for you. The Hegel power supply is impressive at 1200VA but it's not 2400VA like the 851w.

And I hear what you say about failures but let's face it, you don't keep anything long enough for it to fail *wink*

well I will eat my words I just looked up both the pre and the power amp it's impressive the power amp has 2 power supplies and you can switch it to mono block if you want to and it shots the power upto 500watts the pre is 200watts and there a choice between analog units or digital units . I will be phoning richer sounds tomorrow and ask for a demo on the pre and power amp .

 

[radiorog]

You see the roksan k3 is £1300 , the arcam a39 £1500 but my abrahamsen is still better and my amp cost £900 new and it's a better amp then both of those amps . The only amp that will beat my amp is the hegal h360 which costs £3500 and that uses a sound engine and

[/quote]

I'm not so sure. It's a very good amp, but the k3 isn't too far behind, and in my opinion is better in some departments, like power. It has more oomf and drive.

And wouldn't the Hegel h160 be more of a realistic opponent? Have you heard the Hegel 160?

 

[TomSawyer]

well I will eat my words I just looked up both the pre and the power amp it's impressive the power amp has 2 power supplies and you can switch it to mono block if you want to and it shots the power upto 500watts the pre is 200watts and there a choice between analog units or digital units . I will be phoning richer sounds tomorrow and ask for a demo on the pre and power amp .

You may need to get them to order you some in for demo, not many branches will keep the 851e/851w. Don't let them fob you off with the 851a, which they're more likely to have. It's a fine integrated but you already have a fine integrated.

If you haven't already, read the reviews on them above. I'm not recommending them as the right kit for you, that's for you to decide, but I would recommend you try them out.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

You see the roksan k3 is £1300 , the arcam a39 £1500 but my abrahamsen is still better and my amp cost £900 new and it's a better amp then both of those amps . The only amp that will beat my amp is the hegal h360 which costs £3500 and that uses a sound engine and

I'm not so sure. It's a very good amp, but the k3 isn't too far behind, and in my opinion is better in some departments, like power. It has more oomf and drive.

And wouldn't the Hegel h160 be more of a realistic opponent? Have you heard the Hegel 160?

[/quote] no not heard the Hegel stuff yet but have you seen the spec on the flag ship Cambridge power amp and pre it's pretty good . Sorry about downing the k3 I know you have one and there lots of owners who like them it just did not float my boat when I had a demo on the k3

 

[radiorog]

You see the roksan k3 is £1300 , the arcam a39 £1500 but my abrahamsen is still better and my amp cost £900 new and it's a better amp then both of those amps . The only amp that will beat my amp is the hegal h360 which costs £3500 and that uses a sound engine and

I'm not so sure. It's a very good amp, but the k3 isn't too far behind, and in my opinion is better in some departments, like power. It has more oomf and drive.

And wouldn't the Hegel h160 be more of a realistic opponent? Have you heard the Hegel 160?

no not heard the Hegel stuff yet but have you seen the spec on the flag ship Cambridge power amp and pre it's pretty good . Sorry about downing the k3 I know you have one and there lots of owners who like them it just did not float my boat when I had a demo on the k3

[/quote]

No it's not that, I don't mind your opinion on the k3, Im just not convinced the Abrahamsen is really in h360 territory. Maybe h160. I might be wrong, but I'd be surprised if it was in the league of amps above £2500

 

[Blacksabbath25]

well I will eat my words I just looked up both the pre and the power amp it's impressive the power amp has 2 power supplies and you can switch it to mono block if you want to and it shots the power upto 500watts the pre is 200watts and there a choice between analog units or digital units . I will be phoning richer sounds tomorrow and ask for a demo on the pre and power amp .

You may need to get them to order you some in for demo, not many branches will keep the 851e/851w. Don't let them fob you off with the 851a, which they're more likely to have. It's a fine integrated but you already have a fine integrated.

If you haven't already, read the reviews on them above. I'm not recommending them as the right kit for you, that's for you to decide, but I would recommend you try them out.

yes that's what I will do its funny my local branch is Cambridge richer sounds so I will get a demo sorted out 851e /851w at Cambridge thanks for the info

 

[Blacksabbath25]

You see the roksan k3 is £1300 , the arcam a39 £1500 but my abrahamsen is still better and my amp cost £900 new and it's a better amp then both of those amps . The only amp that will beat my amp is the hegal h360 which costs £3500 and that uses a sound engine and

I'm not so sure. It's a very good amp, but the k3 isn't too far behind, and in my opinion is better in some departments, like power. It has more oomf and drive.

And wouldn't the Hegel h160 be more of a realistic opponent? Have you heard the Hegel 160?

no not heard the Hegel stuff yet but have you seen the spec on the flag ship Cambridge power amp and pre it's pretty good . Sorry about downing the k3 I know you have one and there lots of owners who like them it just did not float my boat when I had a demo on the k3

No it's not that, I don't mind your opinion on the k3, Im just not convinced the Abrahamsen is really in h360 territory. Maybe h160. I might be wrong, but I'd be surprised if it was in the league of amps above £2500

[/quote] well Colin heard the hegal with the abrahamsen 2up and he felt that the hegal just went a bit louder then the abrahamsen but they both kind of sounded the same but not sure what hegal they had so I can not say for sure

 

[radiorog]

You see the roksan k3 is £1300 , the arcam a39 £1500 but my abrahamsen is still better and my amp cost £900 new and it's a better amp then both of those amps . The only amp that will beat my amp is the hegal h360 which costs £3500 and that uses a sound engine and

I'm not so sure. It's a very good amp, but the k3 isn't too far behind, and in my opinion is better in some departments, like power. It has more oomf and drive.

And wouldn't the Hegel h160 be more of a realistic opponent? Have you heard the Hegel 160?

no not heard the Hegel stuff yet but have you seen the spec on the flag ship Cambridge power amp and pre it's pretty good . Sorry about downing the k3 I know you have one and there lots of owners who like them it just did not float my boat when I had a demo on the k3

No it's not that, I don't mind your opinion on the k3, Im just not convinced the Abrahamsen is really in h360 territory. Maybe h160. I might be wrong, but I'd be surprised if it was in the league of amps above £2500

well Colin heard the hegal with the abrahamsen 2up and he felt that the hegal just went a bit louder then the abrahamsen but they both kind of sounded the same but not sure what hegal they had so I can not say for sure

[/quote]

I think it was the h160

 

[Andrewjvt]

 well I will eat my words I just looked up both the pre and the power amp it's impressive the power amp has 2 power supplies and you can switch it to mono block if you want to and it shots the power upto 500watts the pre is 200watts  and there a choice between analog units or digital units . I will be phoning richer sounds tomorrow and ask for a demo on the pre and power amp . 

You may need to get them to order you some in for demo, not many branches will keep the 851e/851w. Don't let them fob you off with the 851a, which they're more likely to have. It's a fine integrated but you already have a fine integrated.

If you haven't already, read the reviews on them above. I'm not recommending them as the right kit for you, that's for you to decide, but I would recommend you try them out.

yes that's what I will do its funny my local branch is Cambridge richer sounds so I will get a demo sorted out 851e /851w at Cambridge thanks for the info 

Imo that would be a down grade
I think with no disrespect to you that this forum has you running around in circles.

First off i would go over to see colin and test the abe power amps in bridged mono config. Then if that is not an option id look at a hegel h360. I wouldnt mind going to see colin same time and i could bring my hegel to compare.

And also you wont like what im going to say but you might be able to get a better upgrade with better speakers.

 

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That's the way I was starting to think . we're all giving these recommendations and frankly confusing the situation further,I think as Andrew says.Get back and listen to the Abrahamsen your were thinking of in the first place and go from there.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

well I will eat my words I just looked up both the pre and the power amp it's impressive the power amp has 2 power supplies and you can switch it to mono block if you want to and it shots the power upto 500watts the pre is 200watts and there a choice between analog units or digital units . I will be phoning richer sounds tomorrow and ask for a demo on the pre and power amp .

You may need to get them to order you some in for demo, not many branches will keep the 851e/851w. Don't let them fob you off with the 851a, which they're more likely to have. It's a fine integrated but you already have a fine integrated.

If you haven't already, read the reviews on them above. I'm not recommending them as the right kit for you, that's for you to decide, but I would recommend you try them out.

yes that's what I will do its funny my local branch is Cambridge richer sounds so I will get a demo sorted out 851e /851w at Cambridge thanks for the info

Imo that would be a down grade I think with no disrespect to you that this forum has you running around in circles.

First off i would go over to see colin and test the abe power amps in bridged mono config. Then if that is not an option id look at a hegel h360. I wouldnt mind going to see colin same time and i could bring my hegel to compare.

And also you wont like what im going to say but you might be able to get a better upgrade with better speakers.

well I've looked around at reviews about the Cambridge pre/ power and it's not for me as the Cambridge seems to be troubled with reliability issues which for that kind of money it's a no no

I do like the abrahamsen gear and was saving to buy the abrahamsen 3up and 2 abrahamsen 4ups and your right I should speak to Colin about this

I am happy with my speakers I've not had them long and they seem good for the kind of music I listen to so I do not really want to change them

if I went for a hegal it would be there flag ship h360 which I would have to save a bit more money to do this

do not get me wrong I think the abrahamsen 2up is a brilliant amp for £900 and glad I brought one but I can not help think if I brought a proper abrahamsen pre amp and the abrahamsen power amps this would give me more detail and openness separation around the instruments which is what I am after the abrahamsen 2up on its own is good with bass control and very tight sounding with drums and I am sure my speakers will manage the detail that I am after . But at the time I brought the abrahamsen 2up Colin did give me the option of pre/ power but I could not afford it then but now I know what a abrahamsen amp sounds like so I know it should be even better going the pre/ power amp route

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Anyway Andrew what part of the U.K. are you ? I am Ely Cambridgeshire

 

[Andrewjvt]

Anyway Andrew what part of the U.K. are you ? I am Ely Cambridgeshire 

But as i say couod meet you at colins one day as i also want to demo some of his gear also.

 

[TomSawyer]

Hi Black Sabbath,

Of course you must buy what you want - that's what it's all about - but where did you read about poor reliability of the 851e/w pair? I only ask because I googled it and couldn't find any.

I think you probably would prefer a Hegel or an Abrahamsen, but I'm surprised you wouldn't at least audition the Cambridge pairing, if only to know you did the right thing not choosing them.

Incidentally, I'm not pushing them because I have them or have anything to do with CA or RS, just that they were mighty impressive when I heard them but I understand they lack the cache of the other brands you are considering.

 

[Burnsie]

I seem to remember reading something a while back that Abrahamsen can convert the 2UP into a pre amp, I might be talking absolute bollox but you could send them an email or ask Colin. If they can it might save you a bit of cash.

Originally I was wanting to down the Pre/power road but they never had any power amps at the time. If you manage to get a listen let me know how you get on.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

if I went for a hegal it would be there flag ship h360 which I would have to save a bit more money to do this

Hi Blacksabbath25

The H360 has got some serious power, control (which has so far been unfazed by any loudspeaker) and with a performance to match. You might find Hegel's new ROST amp/DAC/streamer to also do trick as the ROST will use a fair chunk of H360 technology (particularly SoundEngine MK2) and at a lower price. Something worth bearing in mind.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Blacksabbath25]

if I went for a hegal it would be there flag ship h360 which I would have to save a bit more money to do this

Hi Blacksabbath25

The H360 has got some serious power, control (which has so far been unfazed by any loudspeaker) and with a performance to match. You might find Hegel's new ROST amp/DAC/streamer to also do trick as the ROST will use a fair chunk of H360 technology (particularly SoundEngine MK2) and at a lower price. Something worth bearing in mind.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

ok thanks Rick i will bear this in mind *smile*

 

[Blacksabbath25]

I seem to remember reading something a while back that Abrahamsen can convert the 2UP into a pre amp, I might be talking absolute bollox but you could send them an email or ask Colin. If they can it might save you a bit of cash.

Originally I was wanting to down the Pre/power road but they never had any power amps at the time. If you manage to get a listen let me know how you get on.

hi yes will have to talk to colin anyway next week so will ask him then

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Hi Black Sabbath,

Of course you must buy what you want - that's what it's all about - but where did you read about poor reliability of the 851e/w pair? I only ask because I googled it and couldn't find any.

I think you probably would prefer a Hegel or an Abrahamsen, but I'm surprised you wouldn't at least audition the Cambridge pairing, if only to know you did the right thing not choosing them.

Incidentally, I'm not pushing them because I have them or have anything to do with CA or RS, just that they were mighty impressive when I heard them but I understand they lack the cache of the other brands you are considering.

https://www.audioholics.com/ this is the site that i see the review on the cambridge pre / power i do like the look of both units but it puts me off spending that kind of money on them both if cambridge just uses cheap bits inside that go wrong in 12 months i might be wrong it might not any amp can go wrong i know this anyway just google 851e review audioholics review should come up its after the review on the comments *smile*