Question Dual mono tube amps: how to get it right?

[El Puerco Volante]

I'm thinking to upgrade one of my systems to pure tube amps.

How I'd like to get it right from the beginning, so some advice from the experts would be very welcome 😁

I want to get the best possible setup, without going crazy on cost, of course.

From what I'm reading, separate tube pre-amp and power amp, in dual mono setup are the best. Now a couple of questions:

1) You will probably laugh, but how many amps do I actually need? I think it's 3 in total, but what type of ? One pre-amp and two power amps in dual mono, each powering one speaker?

2) I had a look and PrimaLuna looks decent. Anyone has experience with those? I'm thinking about 200 or 300 series.

Big thanks in advance 🙂

 

[Integralista]

Hi, what budget do you have for the whole amp system? Price range is very big.

 

[El Puerco Volante]

Hi, what budget do you have for the whole amp system? Price range is very big.

Hello. I'm thinking about 10-15k, nothing crazy. Looks like PrimaLuna fits that

 

[Juzzie Wuzzie]

If I was starting again, I'd probably go a WiiM ultra into two mono blocks. Whether they were tube or not is up for debate. That said, I own a PrimaLuna stereo power amplifier and love it. Had it approximately 12 years and no regrets. It did cost me a pretty penny (€1k) to fix this year, but I guess it is what it is.

Sound is so individual, I'll leave it to you to determine whether or not you'll like the tube sound. What I would mention, and possibly teaching you to suck eggs, is the practicality. It's not like a modern system where you pick up your remote / phone, select a track and boom ... there it plays. Rather ... walk to system, switch on (in a particular order), wait to warm up, play track ....! If you were pairing it with a turntable (as I once did) the incremental is neglible, but if you are replacing a modern convenience, you may notice it.

I've commented on other threads in more detail, etc which should easily be found.

 

[skinnypuppy71]

If I was spending that much cash, I'd probably not bother with a valve amp.....I'd go straight to class A, something from Accuphase, Sugden or pass labs would do it for me.....oh and I own a primaluna dialogue premium hp integrated.

 

[Juzzie Wuzzie]

If I was spending that much cash, I'd probably not bother with a valve amp.....I'd go straight to class A, something from Accuphase, Sugden or pass labs would do it for me.....oh and I own a primaluna dialogue premium hp integrated.

I'd agree - as just posed on the Tube Pin-Up thread, my perfect world would be a tube set up in an office / library with a one-box solution in the general living area.

 

[Al ears]

Never gone down the dual mono tube amp route but it may get slightly complicated.
Some manufacturers make a dual mono in the same chassis.
If you go separates you may need to ensure the tubes in each amp are from matched pairs to get identical output potential from both amps.
obviously one preamp and two monoblocks is the way to go but understand this may limit your choice of suitable speakers.

 

[El Puerco Volante]

Never gone down the dual mono tube amp route but it may get slightly complicated.
Some manufacturers make a dual mono in the same chassis.
If you go separates you may need to ensure the tubes in each amp are from matched pairs to get identical output potential from both amps.
obviously one preamp and two monoblocks is the way to go but understand this may limit your choice of suitable speakers.

Very interesting. Why would it limit my choice of speakers? I was thinking to pair those dual mono tube amps with GoldenEar Triton 2+ I recently acquired.

 

[El Puerco Volante]

If I was spending that much cash, I'd probably not bother with a valve amp.....I'd go straight to class A, something from Accuphase, Sugden or pass labs would do it for me.....oh and I own a primaluna dialogue premium hp integrated.

I like the tube sound 🙂. So the goal here is to get the best possible tube sound, without spending crazy amounts. I believe the amps you mentioned, although excellent, wouldn't give me that sound.

 

[Al ears]

Very interesting. Why would it limit my choice of speakers? I was thinking to pair those dual mono tube amps with GoldenEar Triton 2+ I recently acquired.

Tube amps will always work at their best with efficient speakers that don't have big dips in impedance. I know nothing about the Triton 2 although one review seems to say they will work well with tube amplifiers

 

[Jasonovich]

A million shifting of sands ago, I had two Edison 12 A class tube amps, I had these bi-amped to Musical Fidelity MC4 speakers .
I recall there was a thumb and a buzz when these were switched on but this didn't distract from the sound. This was ancient kit and relatively cheap. Really can't compare to modern tubes.

If I was in your shoes and I was planning on spending a lot of bread on serious kit, I think it would be prudent to book a demo with your dealership.
Ask the dealer to compare the tubes to solid state amps of comparative costs, perhaps you can ask them to set up a class A amp direct comparison between tube and solid state.

Have fun

 

[El Puerco Volante]

Thanks for all the replies so far. I will try to arrange a listening session for both tube and solid A amps. Probably will still go with tubes, since I always liked the tube sound. But good (and fun) to compare. In case I'll decide to go with tubes : I connect my input devices (streamer, vinyl) to the pre-amp, connect the pre-amp left out to one power amp and the right out to the other power amp. Correct so far? Then the power amp (probably Primaluna EVO 400) has different speaker outputs, marked with 16, 8, 4 and 0 impedance. My speakers say: 4Ω nominal (Compatible with 8Ω). Is it better to connect them to 4 then?

This is very helpful for me, so big thanks and also apologies for stupid questions 😁

 

[Al ears]

Thanks for all the replies so far. I will try to arrange a listening session for both tube and solid A amps. Probably will still go with tubes, since I always liked the tube sound. But good (and fun) to compare. In case I'll decide to go with tubes : I connect my input devices (streamer, vinyl) to the pre-amp, connect the pre-amp left out to one power amp and the right out to the other power amp. Correct so far? Then the power amp (probably Primaluna EVO 400) has different speaker outputs, marked with 16, 8, 4 and 0 impedance. My speakers say: 4Ω nominal (Compatible with 8Ω). Is it better to connect them to 4 then?

This is very helpful for me, so big thanks and also apologies for stupid questions 😁

Surely the Prima Luna EVO400 is a stereo power amp? You do not want two of them and the monoblocks are around 9900 dollars per pair, did you mean these?
What do you intend to use as the preamp? The PrimaLuna EV400 preamp?
Rethink needed?
You probably wouldn't notice much difference by using one stereo power amp apart from saving yourself 4500$
Regards speakers 4ohm connection should be better.

 

[Jasonovich]

Thanks for all the replies so far. I will try to arrange a listening session for both tube and solid A amps. Probably will still go with tubes, since I always liked the tube sound. But good (and fun) to compare. In case I'll decide to go with tubes : I connect my input devices (streamer, vinyl) to the pre-amp, connect the pre-amp left out to one power amp and the right out to the other power amp. Correct so far? Then the power amp (probably Primaluna EVO 400) has different speaker outputs, marked with 16, 8, 4 and 0 impedance. My speakers say: 4Ω nominal (Compatible with 8Ω). Is it better to connect them to 4 then?

This is very helpful for me, so big thanks and also apologies for stupid questions 😁

If you bridge your amp , i.e. two Primaluna EVO 400 running as mono blocks left and right, the output Ω can work with speakers with variable ohms inputs from 2Ω to 8Ω.
If you have it setup as a traditional stereo, the amp's output is able to operate from 4Ω , 8Ω and 16Ω. If your speakers only handle 4Ωs, it should be perfectly fine for the amp. Though, I can't see from the specs the amps watts output rating for 4Ωs. Below are the specs for 8Ω

 

[Jasonovich]

If you bridge your amp , i.e. two Primaluna EVO 400 running as mono blocks left and right, the output Ω can work with speakers with variable ohms inputs from 2Ω to 8Ω.
If you have it setup as a traditional stereo, the amp's output is able to operate from 4Ω , 8Ω and 16Ω. If your speakers only handle 4Ωs, it should be perfectly fine for the amp. Though, I can't see from the specs the amps watts output rating for 4Ωs. Below are the specs for 8Ω

View attachment 7438

Sorry, just to add.
It's seems you're set on the tube amplification but should you decide to do the opposite and go down the solid state route, you can still have your cake and eat it.

Namely, you could include in your solid state system a tube head amp but make sure the ohms on your headphones are compatible, same applies to tube integrated amps. Brands like Bayer and Sennheiser's have a selection of headphones that are >250ohms.

I'm having a tube renaissance myself, I decided to invest in XDUOO TA-66, maybe get into tube rolling, that's another discussion



No circuit boards - Point to Point Wiring - ooooooh Aaaah

 

[skinnypuppy71]

......or.......you could go with a hybrid approach from Pathos,.....tube pre amp stage and solid state power stage, although this would be a integrated amplifier.....start from around 4k up to silly money...
The Pathos InPol2 mkii could give the best of both worlds, valve pre amp stage with 45w of pure class A out put in a dual mono configuration.😁

Pathos Amplifiers | Vickers HiFi

We stock a range of amplifiers from the leading brand Pathos. Including pre amplifiers, integrated amplifiers and power amplifiers.

www.vickershifi.com

 

[Jasonovich]

......or.......you could go with a hybrid approach from Pathos,.....tube pre amp stage and solid state power stage, although this would be a integrated amplifier.....start from around 4k up to silly money...
The Pathos InPol2 mkii could give the best of both worlds, valve pre amp stage with 45w of pure class A out put in a dual mono configuration.😁

Pathos Amplifiers | Vickers HiFi

We stock a range of amplifiers from the leading brand Pathos. Including pre amplifiers, integrated amplifiers and power amplifiers.

www.vickershifi.com

These look mighty fine, it would be a sensible choice, the best of both worlds.
It sounds Greek to me, even though it's made in Italy and these are Herculean, the muscles on those power amps!

 

[Juzzie Wuzzie]

I don't think PL has a current line of (solely) monoblocks - you buy a stereo power amplifier and bridge it. As such, I'd build into this if possible:

Stage 1: streamer (hopefully with pre-amp / volume control capabilities) into 1xEVO 400 in stereo mode
Stage 2: as stage 1, with 1xEVO400 pre-amplifier into 1xEVO 400 in stereo mode
Stage 3: as stage 2, with 2xEVO 400, bridged in mono mode

Also, PL do a hybrid amplifier if it is an attraction to the brand.

 

[Al ears]

I don't think PL has a current line of (solely) monoblocks - you buy a stereo power amplifier and bridge it. As such, I'd build into this if possible:

Stage 1: streamer (hopefully with pre-amp / volume control capabilities) into 1xEVO 400 in stereo mode
Stage 2: as stage 1, with 1xEVO400 pre-amplifier into 1xEVO 400 in stereo mode
Stage 3: as stage 2, with 2xEVO 400, bridged in mono mode

Also, PL do a hybrid amplifier if it is an attraction to the brand.

ProLogue Premium Mono Power Amplifier — PrimaLuna USA

www.primaluna-usa.com

At least they call it a mono amplifier

 

[Juzzie Wuzzie]

Just not sure you can buy them anymore. European (Spanish at least) retailers only stocking the Evo range which, I guess, has replaced the Prologues?

 

[Al ears]

Just not sure you can buy them anymore. European (Spanish at least) retailers only stocking the Evo range which, I guess, has replaced the Prologues?

Aha! Possibly so.
The Evo 400 does appear to be a switchable mono / stereo power amp which defeats the purpose in my opinion.
Your "Stage 2" seems the most sensible way to go.

 

[Jasonovich]

Aha! Possibly so.
The Evo 400 does appear to be a switchable mono / stereo power amp which defeats the purpose in my opinion.
Your "Stage 2" seems the most sensible way to go.

It does have a tri speaker post, different from stereo. Kind of messy

 

[Al ears]

It does have a tri speaker post, different from stereo. Kind of messy

Necessary for both 4 and 8 ohm connection

 

[skinnypuppy71]

Yeah..you use either the 8 ohm tap or 4...not both....I got mine into the 4...apparently it's the way to go..lol.

 

[Amormusic]

My question is why? A very-good valve amp is a very-good valve amp. Monoblocks is fine, but in reality it's more cost, more space, more valves to roll, etc.

With your budget I'd go about it differently. The below amp can be picked up new for around £2200. Until you start spending a vast amount more there's little that I've heard in the valve amp domain that's better. You can then further 'upgrade' this by sticking an excellent preamp in front of it (they have a pre bypass mode).

For £5k you've then got a truly kickass system. I'd then also roll the valves in this. However, you've got a lot of change from your budget to do this if you go this route.

My comments are not speculation btw, I've heard this exact amp in three different systems and it is utterly excellent. Especially considering what it costs.

I've also heard valve amps that cost 5x this amount and they don't sound 5x better.

ATB

Line Magnetic LM-805iA Integrated Amplifier Review

This interesting new mid-price Chinese valve amplifier gives Mark Gusew a warm glow…

www.stereonet.com

Edit: if you get the chance and are in the UK you should go to the Maverick Hifi show. There's a post on this forum with info about where and when. There will be many valve amps there you can hear for yourself to get some inspiration.