Pre amp bridging 2 power amps

[Blacksabbath25]

Heard good things about the Heed Obilisk PM's (not heard myself) but they are£1400 each....... ouch!

yes i know its not going to be cheap but worth saving a bit more to get it right *smile*

 

[busb]

A friend bridged his Parasound power amps but one kept failing. In the end, he got shot of them but really fell out with the dealer big time - trading standards got involved etc.

One route is monoblocks next to your speakers with short speaker cables & long XLR input cables as you need. I personally feel bridging is a dubious idea. Bi-amping? Don't bother - just get better power amps & flog your existing one. My Primare will bridge for some silly power output but the gain (not power) is too high already meaning that I'm using the volume control near the bottom so end up alweays using the 1st 25% or so of its range. I wish I could reduce the gain by 10dB in the amp itself - I can reduce the output of my DAC to -10dB from 0dB if I chose to.

The potential problem mixing pre amps from one make with power amps from another is the lack of standards (impedances & voltage gain).

 

[Al ears]

Heard good things about the Heed Obilisk PM's (not heard myself) but they are£1400 each....... ouch!

yes i know its not going to be cheap but worth saving a bit more to get it right *smile*

Right! The only other monoblocks I have heard recently where the Exposure 3010's but more to the point is ensuring you get the pre amp right.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

OK,you might not be interested but I'll put it out there anyway.on the well known auction site is a naim pre 202/200 power combo for 2k that should have plenty of air and detail your after..would have set you back a cool 4k new.That pairing should show those dali's who's boss.lol.God I wish I had 2k for them.or should I say...wish the Mrs would let me spend 2k on them.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

I came across audio lab 8300mb mono blocks are they any good

 

[Blacksabbath25]

OK,you might not be interested but I'll put it out there anyway.on the well known auction site is a naim pre 202/200 power combo for 2k that should have plenty of air and detail your after..would have set you back a cool 4k new.That pairing should show those dali's who's boss.lol.God I wish I had 2k for them.or should I say...wish the Mrs would let me spend 2k on them.

thanks mark I will have a look I never understood naim stuff it always confuses me how meany different ways and components they have with the separate power supply boxes and which is the best way to go with there stuff and like you say it's very expensive

 

[Electro]

I came across audio lab 8300mb mono blocks are they any good

I used to own an Audiolab 8000Q preamp many years ago to control my old Mission 777 power amps and out of interest I borrowed a pair of the older 8000 monoblocks just to see what they were like.

All I can say is they were the most dissapointing hifi components I have ever heard .*sad* .

The newer Audiolab models may be better but as you like the Abrahamsen so much I very much doubt you will find the Audiolab mono's to your taste.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

I came across audio lab 8300mb mono blocks are they any good

I used to own an Audiolab 8000Q preamp many years ago to control my old Mission 777 power amps and out of interest I borrowed a pair of the older 8000 monoblocks just to see what they were like.

All I can say is they were the most dissapointing hifi components I have ever heard .*sad* .

The newer Audiolab models may be better but as you like the Abrahamsen so much I very much doubt you will find the Audiolab mono's to your taste.

to be honest I do like the abrahamsen stuff it's a shame they do not make mono blocks as well because I would know what to expect . But I was saving for the abrahamsen pre and bridging two 4ups but people are saying if I wanted to do this really right then I should look at the mono blocks which I would have to save a bit more money . The other option I have is go for the nord mono blocks that Colin makes which I am not sure about as they have little power supply's in them whether this makes any difference I do not know ? Because as you know the abrahamsen uses the big 1000va power supply which helps with very good bass control and a deep bass which I need for metal music but I also want the details in the music so I can hear all of the instruments the abrahamsen 2up just about does this so whether it's a cdplayer or dac issues I am not sure but my abrahamsen 1up CD player has gone wrong and needs a new mechanism which Colin is still waiting on from abrahamsen so I have gone back to my old marantz sacd 8005 cdplayer for now which is not as good as the abrahamsen cdplayer but then I am starting to think weather to buy a much more reliable cdplayer that's better then the 1 up cdplayer ? And maybe it will give me more detail I am not sure ? The thing is I do not want to wast money on a pointless upgrades

 

[Electro]

I came across audio lab 8300mb mono blocks are they any good

I used to own an Audiolab 8000Q preamp many years ago to control my old Mission 777 power amps and out of interest I borrowed a pair of the older 8000 monoblocks just to see what they were like.

All I can say is they were the most dissapointing hifi components I have ever heard .*sad* .

The newer Audiolab models may be better but as you like the Abrahamsen so much I very much doubt you will find the Audiolab mono's to your taste.

to be honest I do like the abrahamsen stuff it's a shame they do not make mono blocks as well because I would know what to expect . But I was saving for the abrahamsen pre and bridging two 4ups but people are saying if I wanted to do this really right then I should look at the mono blocks which I would have to save a bit more money . The other option I have is go for the nord mono blocks that Colin makes which I am not sure about as they have little power supply's in them whether this makes any difference I do not know ? Because as you know the abrahamsen uses the big 1000va power supply which helps with very good bass control and a deep bass which I need for metal music but I also want the details in the music so I can hear all of the instruments the abrahamsen 2up just about does this so whether it's a cdplayer or dac issues I am not sure but my abrahamsen 1up CD player has gone wrong and needs a new mechanism which Colin is still waiting on from abrahamsen so I have gone back to my old marantz sacd 8005 cdplayer for now which is not as good as the abrahamsen cdplayer but then I am starting to think weather to buy a much more reliable cdplayer that's better then the 1 up cdplayer ? And maybe it will give me more detail I am not sure ? The thing is I do not want to wast money on a pointless upgrades

I think you ABE Cd player is perfectly Ok and not holding anything back even though an EMC1up would be a little better it is not a huge amount better.

If you want more reslolution and detail but you're happy with the power and control you have already then in my experience you should look at the preamp side of things .

Maybe use a used Electrocompaniet EC4.8 preamp with a single V4.0 power amp .

In my system the EC4.8 preamp made a massive improvement especially with detail , imaging , space and dynamic impact . It made a much bigger improvement than upgrading to my electro monoblocks .

The EC4.8 pre is a dual mono preamp that has been compared to some of the best and most expensive preamps available and it was better than most and the equal of the rest.

Yes that is the internals of the EC 4.8 pre amp !

A review.

http://www.dagogo.com/electrocompaniet-ec-4-8-preamplifier-review

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

I believe sabbath I did mention to look at your source first before shelling out on more amps.they will definitely not be a waste of cash if your end game is a well balanced system where neither component overshadows others.Roksan,primare,Leema or naim is where my cash would go,but me having naim gear already my next source upgrade will be a used naim cd5xs,and that's the kind of level I reckon you should be looking at as a worthwhile improvement,You're amp and speakers can't retrieve what's not available from the source,it's a method condoned for many years from linn and naim...source first always . Who's to say that two of the finest British electronics manufacturers are wrong.

 

[BigH]

You're amp and speakers can't retrieve what's not available from the source,it's a method condoned for many years from linn and naim...source first always . Who's to say that two of the finest British electronics manufacturers are wrong.

I think that is true with turntables not so sure about digital sources.

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

So big H....you reckon a £600 cd player is going to compete with a 2k cd player.If there wasn't any improvement in Sq I doubt anyone would buy them.I've heard an improvement from every cd player upgrade I've made..from budget marantz units to entry level arcams to midrange arcams and now on to the naim cd5i italic....every player has had something to offer in terms of Sq and build quality.oh and don't forget pride of ownership.Cd players aren't just about the dac chip,but you already know this..I'm only trying to help sabbath achieve a nicely balanced system,In my view a good system really has to have an equilibrium about it and not just loads of cash spent on one area like the amplification.just my view though.And for what it's worth it looks to me like sabbaths system should have a nice balance at the moment but if he's intent on more upgrades I think the source should be the next unit to be looked at.

 

[BigH]

So big H....you reckon a £600 cd player is going to compete with a 2k cd player.If there wasn't any improvement in Sq I doubt anyone would buy them.I've heard an improvement from every cd player upgrade I've made..from budget marantz units to entry level arcams to midrange arcams and now on to the naim cd5i italic....every player has had something to offer in terms of Sq and build quality.oh and don't forget pride of ownership.Cd players aren't just about the dac chip,but you already know this..I'm only trying to help sabbath achieve a nicely balanced system,In my view a good system really has to have an equilibrium about it and not just loads of cash spent on one area like the amplification.just my view though.And for what it's worth it looks to me like sabbaths system should have a nice balance at the moment but if he's intent on more upgrades I think the source should be the next unit to be looked at.

All I'm saying is the differences are subtle and small, its not like turntables and cartridges. Stereophile even had a Sony playstation that they thought was as good as many cd players upto $3,000. ALso their reviewers tend to say similar things about cd players the differences are subtle. Yes some sound different, but thats more about presentation and changing the sound, some of the upmarket ones uses values in the processing to get a warmer more analogue sound. Its something he should try I agree, maybe dropping £3k on a cd player is better than power amps, I don't know. I would probably go a different route myself. Pride of ownership what is that? So what cd player should he try?

 

[TomSawyer]

Sorry if I missed it somewhere, but what are you trying to achieve?

There's ususally a couple of (perceived) advantages to a separate pre and power amp: better sound quality and more power.

If you're looking for the former, and you like Abrahansen, why not just run a V30UP with one V40UP in stereo mode?

 

[Blacksabbath25]

It's ok everyone glad of some ideas it may come down to the CD player I am not sure but both cdplayers that I do have have a value of a £1000 CD player marantz sacd 8005 / abrahamsen 1up CD player which I am not using as it needs a new mechanism so I am using the marantz at the moment but would say the abrahamsen is slightly better in detail and clean sounding the marantz seems a little bright on the treble side of things whether this is down to buying a CD player with a much more better dac inside but both players I do have are well constructed .

If mono blocks are the way to go here then I will carry on saving until I can get hold of some well respected mono blocks and a pre amp .

If it just comes to getting a better sound out of a pre amp / power amp then I will look into this too and maybe change to the abrahamsen 3up pre / 4up power amp .

but like I have said before the abrahamsen 2up is a good amp but I understand that I could get a little bit more detail and space around the instruments on the treble side without it sounding bright but more natural sounding but I am going to be hard pushed to buy any amp with this kind of horse power for £900 without spending ££££££

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Hay big H I agree..once you get to a certain level every upgrade is small and subtle and I wouldn't drop 3k on a cd player...my next one would be used from the well known auction site (naim cd5xs)which happens to be the go to player for the nait xs or I may chase another turntable upgrade but then I'll need better amplification at the end of the day I think it's all about getting a nicely balanced system and knowing when to stop.If I was sabbath I'd be looking for a turntable to be honest but he doesn't seem to want to travel that road even though he has some vinyl he's been collecting.A nice turntable and stage can be had for 2k.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Hay big H I agree..once you get to a certain level every upgrade is small and subtle and I wouldn't drop 3k on a cd player...my next one would be used from the well known auction site (naim cd5xs)which happens to be the go to player for the nait xs or I may chase another turntable upgrade but then I'll need better amplification at the end of the day I think it's all about getting a nicely balanced system and knowing when to stop.If I was sabbath I'd be looking for a turntable to be honest but he doesn't seem to want to travel that road even though he has some vinyl he's been collecting.A nice turntable and stage can be had for 2k.

yes mark ! *smile* i will get a good turntable ones i have the sound side of things sorted out first then i will more on to the turntable

 

[BigH]

Hay big H I agree..once you get to a certain level every upgrade is small and subtle and I wouldn't drop 3k on a cd player...my next one would be used from the well known auction site (naim cd5xs)which happens to be the go to player for the nait xs or I may chase another turntable upgrade but then I'll need better amplification at the end of the day I think it's all about getting a nicely balanced system and knowing when to stop.If I was sabbath I'd be looking for a turntable to be honest but he doesn't seem to want to travel that road even though he has some vinyl he's been collecting.A nice turntable and stage can be had for 2k.

I did suggest a Turntable at the beginning. I think for his type of music that maybe the best option, some heavy metal cds don't sound good. Other options are downloads and streaming, not sure how good the high rez mastering is on some of his music, I think some recently are pretty good from what I have read but its more money for music he already has, another option is to try a better Dac such as the Chord Qute EX DAC, that maybe better than buying a new player.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Hay big H I agree..once you get to a certain level every upgrade is small and subtle and I wouldn't drop 3k on a cd player...my next one would be used from the well known auction site (naim cd5xs)which happens to be the go to player for the nait xs or I may chase another turntable upgrade but then I'll need better amplification at the end of the day I think it's all about getting a nicely balanced system and knowing when to stop.If I was sabbath I'd be looking for a turntable to be honest but he doesn't seem to want to travel that road even though he has some vinyl he's been collecting.A nice turntable and stage can be had for 2k.

I did suggest a Turntable at the beginning. I think for his type of music that maybe the best option, some heavy metal cds don't sound good. Other options are downloads and streaming, not sure how good the high rez mastering is on some of his music, I think some recently are pretty good from what I have read but its more money for music he already has, another option is to try a better Dac such as the Chord Qute EX DAC, that maybe better than buying a new player.

i do not use streaming i just do not like it i just buy cds and like a collection i sometimes buy a download of itunes if i can not wait for the cd to come but that's it i did buy the irdac about 12 months ago but do not use it anymore as the dac inside my cd player is much better then the irdac chip

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

OK Mr Sabbath.if it must be amplification and you got 2k..your going to have to go used if you want better than what you have,I'd buy the naim pre/power combo That I mentioned in a earlier post,(not everyone's cup of tea..I know)also Leema tucana 2 and if you can manage 3k there is a bryston b135 integrated on....you no where.which by all accounts should be all the amp you ever need 5k new.I'm sure there's others but that's what would tickle my toes.lol.

 

[BigH]

Hay big H I agree..once you get to a certain level every upgrade is small and subtle and I wouldn't drop 3k on a cd player...my next one would be used from the well known auction site (naim cd5xs)which happens to be the go to player for the nait xs or I may chase another turntable upgrade but then I'll need better amplification at the end of the day I think it's all about getting a nicely balanced system and knowing when to stop.If I was sabbath I'd be looking for a turntable to be honest but he doesn't seem to want to travel that road even though he has some vinyl he's been collecting.A nice turntable and stage can be had for 2k.

I did suggest a Turntable at the beginning. I think for his type of music that maybe the best option, some heavy metal cds don't sound good. Other options are downloads and streaming, not sure how good the high rez mastering is on some of his music, I think some recently are pretty good from what I have read but its more money for music he already has, another option is to try a better Dac such as the Chord Qute EX DAC, that maybe better than buying a new player.

i do not use streaming i just do not like it i just buy cds and like a collection i sometimes buy a download of itunes if i can not wait for the cd to come but that's it i did buy the irdac about 12 months ago but do not use it anymore as the dac inside my cd player is much better then the irdac chip

Thats fair enough. Thought the Chord maybe worth a try its said to be a clear and open sounding Dac, I nearly tried one last demo a few weeks ago but ran out of time.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

OK Mr Sabbath.if it must be amplification and you got 2k..your going to have to go used if you want better than what you have,I'd buy the naim pre/power combo That I mentioned in a earlier post,(not everyone's cup of tea..I know)also Leema tucana 2 and if you can manage 3k there is a bryston b135 integrated on....you no where.which by all accounts should be all the amp you ever need 5k new.I'm sure there's others but that's what would tickle my toes.lol.

ok I did look at the naim on enter bay but like I have said before I have never heard naim stuff before or understand what all the different kinds of boxes they make and what some of them do and I did look at the naim web site you could easily spend £61000 on naim stuff which I would not want to do . I will keep saving and doing my homework for now and contact Colin to see what he will say about just using the abrahamsen pre / power which I can afford now but I just do not want to do pointless upgrades as it's taken me some time to save £2000 as I do not believe in borrowing money to get this things

 

[hybridauth_Facebook_100004211376004]

Or run his cd player through the external dac via coaxial or optical and if you got the cash a chord Hugo or Hugo tt if your really feeling flush.oooh how I love spending other people's money.lol.

 

[BigH]

Or run his cd player through the external dac via coaxial or optical and if you got the cash a chord Hugo or Hugo tt if your really feeling flush.oooh how I love spending other people's money.lol.

Thats what I was saying but unless you want the portability of the Hugo the Chord 2qute dac is said to be as good and is cheaper.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Or run his cd player through the external dac via coaxial or optical and if you got the cash a chord Hugo or Hugo tt if your really feeling flush.oooh how I love spending other people's money.lol.

you said your self you was tempted in the abrahamsen 2up it is a good amp for the money anyway what I do not understand about naim is they do a thing called flat caps , power supply , pre amp , power amp , dac , normal amps , streamers , cdplayers they all look the same lol and the model that you sent me a link about what year was that pre / power amp ? As the company seems to keep to the same design even if it was 20 years ago