Active v passive sound quality test to be conducted today The results to follow after. The main question that needs answering is: can set up costing 3 - 4 times cheaper beat my current system for sound quality. If it can then by how much? And also if it is much better, am i ready to make some hard choices - go for the best sound and ignore any brand attachements? I'll either be building passive k100 kits (scm 100 clones) or going active. Sound quality being the most important thing above all else. I hope you will all enjoy the results that follow over next few days
passive set up v active set up
- Thread starter Andrewjvt
- Start date
plastic penguin
Well-known member
Andrewjvt said:
I think it all boils down to requirements. I couldn't afford to keep my Leema as preamp and use alongside a pair of actives.
The other consideration IMO would be its presentation: Do I want ultimate clarity? not if it sacrifices certain sonic attributes I crave.
IMHO it isn't about what is technically better but what is familiar. I wouldn't say my set-up is technically the best around that price range, but I've moulded a sound that I've looked for for a number of years. I can't explain this certain sound, apart from it has a whiff of 'old skool' about it. Think you know what I'm talking about - designer sound if you like.
Nonetheless I'll read with interest your findings.
Andrewjvt said:
Look forward to reading your impressions. Not sure about putting them up against something 3-4 times the price. Sounds like you may be setting them up to fail.
When I recommend actives to people it's usually to do with value for money at the budget end of the scale, but I'm often reluctant to for a living room setup because, especially for beginners, they're trickier to setup. It's hard to get the connectivity options you get with a regular integrated amp/passive speaker setup. They tend to be pretty ugly.
Then there's the boring semantic bit about "better". I'm a boring person so I'd accept "better" if they measured better, but that may have little bearing on whether one likes how they sound. I prefer the sound of my active setup to my previous passive setup, but that's just personal preference. I like the presentation of active speakers and they sound the most balanced to me, but that's no guarantee that others will like it. Seeing as you like ATCs it might be a presentation suited to you, but despite claims of ultimate accuracy and detail, etc. they are compromised just like any speaker and different makes do sound different.
chebby
Well-known member
Is it going to be active ATCs vs passive ATCs?
What methodology? Blind? Double blind? Level matched?
What methodology? Blind? Double blind? Level matched?
Yes, also interested.
These things are terribly subjective, so not necessarily impossible for a cheap system to "beat" a more expensive one.
Hopefully my AVIs will be here soon. I won't be able to compare with my ProAc studio 125s (they sold instantly on eBay) but could compare to the tablettes (a fairer fight than yours?).
what aspects of sound quality are you after? And which are you prepared to compromise on?
for me, smooth mid range, untiring sound, imaging and clarity as well as a sense of musical excitement.
i can live without full bass, possibly the most detailed treble (not sure about that).
It's fun to try to understand gadgets and learn about what's out there in a kind of academic sense, but at the end of the day, once I have something that makes me smile, I'll stop sweating this small stuff and enjoy the music, having ticked the box marked "done due diligence"
These things are terribly subjective, so not necessarily impossible for a cheap system to "beat" a more expensive one.
Hopefully my AVIs will be here soon. I won't be able to compare with my ProAc studio 125s (they sold instantly on eBay) but could compare to the tablettes (a fairer fight than yours?).
what aspects of sound quality are you after? And which are you prepared to compromise on?
for me, smooth mid range, untiring sound, imaging and clarity as well as a sense of musical excitement.
i can live without full bass, possibly the most detailed treble (not sure about that).
It's fun to try to understand gadgets and learn about what's out there in a kind of academic sense, but at the end of the day, once I have something that makes me smile, I'll stop sweating this small stuff and enjoy the music, having ticked the box marked "done due diligence"
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
plastic penguin said:
Hi plastic penguin
Fair point and this is what we've experienced over the last eighteen months with ATC's curved SCM40A active monitors and curved SCM40 passive monitors. Some clients prefer the direct presentation of the curved SCM40A active monitors and other clients in comparison prefer the somewhat fuller/rounded presentation of curved SCM40 passive monitors paired with amplification such as SuperNait 2, H360, KAV-400xi, SIA2-150 MK2, ECI1, M6si, etc.
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
plastic penguin
Well-known member
MUSICRAFT said:
Agree. That's why I'm so reluctant to change the main body of my set-up (amp and speakers). A few months ago I had a home dem of a pair of LS50s, and they sounded really impressive... hard to put a finger on it, but there was something missing compared the PMCs. Sometimes there's a lot to be said for just leaving ones set-up in situ.
steve_1979
Well-known member
steve_1979
Well-known member
chebby said:
No he's visiting forum member Ipv to compare setups.
Andrew has passive ATC SMC11 speakers with a Hegal H360 amplifier and Ipv has active AVI DM10 speakers with a non AVI subwoofer (a budget BK sub I think???).
Should be interesting.
chebby
Well-known member
steve_1979 said:
'Sighted' comparison or 'blind'?
Levels equalized before test?
Sub used (or not used) with both systems.
It's just that I know what 'sticklers' for correct methodology people can (quite correctly) be over testing the small stuff (cables etc.), so I assumed the same for this sort of test.
ay up.. Andrew just left, we've spent quality afternoon listening to mentioned set ups.. I'll post pictures later and I'm sure, Andrew will share his impressions..
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
Hi Steve
I've still got a DSP-E800. Good product particularly its S video performance.
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
I've still got a DSP-E800. Good product particularly its S video performance.
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
that was:
1) Hegel H360, ATC SCM11 & laptop as a source
2) AVI DM10, BK Gemini II ( sub was on and off as Andrew requested) & laptop as a source
1) Hegel H360, ATC SCM11 & laptop as a source
2) AVI DM10, BK Gemini II ( sub was on and off as Andrew requested) & laptop as a source
plastic penguin
Well-known member
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
Hi plastic penguin
Fwiw, here is an excellent SCM50 passive v SCM50 active thread http://www.atcforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6928
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
Fwiw, here is an excellent SCM50 passive v SCM50 active thread http://www.atcforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6928
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
plastic penguin
Well-known member
MUSICRAFT said:
That's the point. We all, including myself, get caught up in this in this mad caldron of upgradeitus... or we must have this or that because...
Yet we forget about people, like me, who is still gets a sonic thrill from our existing components.
I would never slag off anyone for trying something different, and if people get a buzz from that then hats off to them.
Personally speaking, wild horses would not drag me away from my current system. It does a great job and some...
As regards Andrew testing actives against more expensive passive set-up is good to read, but has no relevance to me or any future set-up I might be planning.
Id like to say a big thank you to Darius for his hospitality, cakes en coffee! Oh yes we even got to listen to some music.
So i know you all eager to know how it went so id like to say first off ive learnt one thing: carting atcs and hegels is hard work lol.
So i know you all eager to know how it went so id like to say first off ive learnt one thing: carting atcs and hegels is hard work lol.
MUSICRAFT
Well-known member
plastic penguin said:
Hi plastic penguin
I think you might have got the wrong end of the stick as i was referring to something else. As to the rest that's fair enough
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
ID. said:
In terms of cost yes my set up much more expensive but in terms specs no as the avi is a 4 seperate mono power amp 2 x 75w for hf, 2 x250w for lf. Hegel 2 x250.
The avi also has pre amp and dac built in.
chebby said:
Started off trying to match by ear best possible. Went tits up from there on though as totally different source : spotify apple lossless airportv laptop flac direct usb. So most songs were at different levels.
What we did do though was pause one play another back and forward in same part in song and compare quite well i thought, once we got into the timming.
Blacksabbath25
Well-known member
plastic penguin
Well-known member
MUSICRAFT said:
My stick is firmly placed in the right direction. *biggrin*
It was just a summary of my posts to you and Andrew. It'll make a good read but my stick is concreted firmly into the ground (Windsock! Anyone got a windsock?) *ROFL*
So both combos sounded very good no doubt.
So as we started:
First song katie melua, id love to kill you
The Avi's clearly more clearer at first with the atcs more thicker on guitars. Still adjusting to the sound.
Played a few then first eye opener: bob marley i want to love you. Sounded ace on mine but then almost came alive on the avi- so much more real sounding.
So at this point for a while inwas skipping loads different tracks checking cetain details backwards and forwards, fanatically checking details and comparrisons.
So at this stage to sum up both sounded good but the Avi stood out on vocals even more so than mine.
At that stage if i gave the avi 10/10 id give the hegel/atc 8.5/10 in relation.
All this without sub on avi.
Id need more time to get used to all the subtle differences so we took a coffee break went back to playing and all the same. Both sounded good but avi won on vocals and midrange more apparent.
In my mind could easy feel the active has advantages over the passive but my passive setup keeping in sight but falling back as i take it all in.
Then i started packing up my stuff and Daruis stating playing some tracks that totally blew my up. Artists you wouldnt think of. Nat king cole, luther Vandross and some very modern electronic contemporary stuff that ive not heard of. All with little sub on now and im sold.
Cant explain the sound quality but so pure, real and live like i have to have a set of these.
All the clarity, texture and details are not at expense of anything musically at all.
Just lack of colour/distortion like the atcs but taken to a higher level and possibly unfair but then maybe 10/10 to 7.5/10.
Please i ask Daruis to give also his thoughts also. But the sound quality after a while of adjusting was just phenominal. No right to sound like this at the price.
Believe all the hype.
Please excuse all spelling/gramar as im doing on ohone one hand whilst feeding dogs
So as we started:
First song katie melua, id love to kill you
The Avi's clearly more clearer at first with the atcs more thicker on guitars. Still adjusting to the sound.
Played a few then first eye opener: bob marley i want to love you. Sounded ace on mine but then almost came alive on the avi- so much more real sounding.
So at this point for a while inwas skipping loads different tracks checking cetain details backwards and forwards, fanatically checking details and comparrisons.
So at this stage to sum up both sounded good but the Avi stood out on vocals even more so than mine.
At that stage if i gave the avi 10/10 id give the hegel/atc 8.5/10 in relation.
All this without sub on avi.
Id need more time to get used to all the subtle differences so we took a coffee break went back to playing and all the same. Both sounded good but avi won on vocals and midrange more apparent.
In my mind could easy feel the active has advantages over the passive but my passive setup keeping in sight but falling back as i take it all in.
Then i started packing up my stuff and Daruis stating playing some tracks that totally blew my up. Artists you wouldnt think of. Nat king cole, luther Vandross and some very modern electronic contemporary stuff that ive not heard of. All with little sub on now and im sold.
Cant explain the sound quality but so pure, real and live like i have to have a set of these.
All the clarity, texture and details are not at expense of anything musically at all.
Just lack of colour/distortion like the atcs but taken to a higher level and possibly unfair but then maybe 10/10 to 7.5/10.
Please i ask Daruis to give also his thoughts also. But the sound quality after a while of adjusting was just phenominal. No right to sound like this at the price.
Believe all the hype.
Please excuse all spelling/gramar as im doing on ohone one hand whilst feeding dogs
Blacksabbath25
Well-known member
Well that surprised me ! I really thought the passive speakers would be better . How meany hours have you had out of your new speakers then Andrew ? So does this mean the hagal h-360 is in for a trade-in then for some actives ?
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