Paradigm SUB 15, Ken Kreisel 5000 Mark3 subwoofer advice advice needed..

[Frank Harvey]

No one Nick - we are exclusive UK retailers. The UK dristributor also supplies the UK, but obviously they have no premises over here

 

[Anonymous]

As i said earlier the Fathom f113 reproduces massively fast, tight and deep bass which is supported with great power, grip, drive and hard hitting dynamics

Not as fast, tight, deep, powerful, grippy, driven or hard hitting as a DXD12012. :hand:

Hmmm. A single 13" or a dual 12".....

With the F113 at £3695 you can get a pair of DXD12012s for just £250 more. There was not really any competition with the DXD12012 at £2495 so at £1979 it is game over. :rofl:

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Howdy CaptHowdy

Good to see your support for the DXD-12012 :beer: Anyway, hold that thought.

In the meantime good accurate audio monitoring and good sound reproduction to you

All the best

Sheriff Rick @ Musicraft

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Howdy CaptHowdy

Good to see your support for the DXD-12012 :beer: Anyway, hold that thought.

In the meantime good accurate audio monitoring and good sound reproduction to you

All the best

Sheriff Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Anonymous]

Howdy CaptHowdy

Good to see your support for the DXD-12012 :beer: Anyway, hold that thought.

In the meantime good accurate audio monitoring and good sound reproduction to you

All the best

Sheriff Rick @ Musicraft

and sarcasm is like a second language to me so I am right there with ya.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Howdy CaptHowdy

Good to see your support for the DXD-12012 :beer: Anyway, hold that thought.

In the meantime good accurate audio monitoring and good sound reproduction to you

All the best

Sheriff Rick @ Musicraft

and sarcasm is like a second language to me so I am right there with ya.

Howdy partner

I don't know what you're talking about :?

All the best

Sheriff Rick @ Musicraft

 

[ideal av]

are these the same subs that were supposed to be released the end of last year but were not. Then around March/April this year but were not. That is on top of the 'rumours' that have been knocking around for the past 3 years. I wonder who started them.

'They' say a lot of things and it is mostly rubbish.

mind the the new JL Audio subs I have are simply awesome...........

Of course they are. You sell them.

they probably are the same ones but why do you say they talk rubbish?

with "they" who exactly are you referring to do you mind me asking

these things take time as i`m sure you will understand, and whats the point in releasing a product if its not ready, talk about its coming yes, why not everyone else does, its called marketing.

JL Audio aren`t awesome because I sell them

I sell them because they are awesome, well to me they are and everyone else who has heard them here

if you want to come for a listen your welcome anytime

Allan

 

[ideal av]

As i said earlier the Fathom f113 reproduces massively fast, tight and deep bass which is supported with great power, grip, drive and hard hitting dynamics

Not as fast, tight, deep, powerful, grippy, driven or hard hitting as a DXD12012. :hand:

so I take it thats from comparing them both side by side, your opinion is only valid if this has been done

has it been arrived at this way or is it just speculation

if you want to come and see for yourself then come along, i`ve got a DXD12012 here now

i`m on an install the rest of the day but free all sunday pm, the DXD12012 is going back to its owner at 3.30pm tomorrow afternoon so don`t miss this chance if you want to do a side by side comparison.

theirs a MX350, a Fathom f112 & f113 to compare it to

Allan

 

[Anonymous]

they probably are the same ones but why do you say they talk rubbish?

with "they" who exactly are you referring to do you mind me asking

these things take time as i`m sure you will understand, and whats the point in releasing a product if its not ready, talk about its coming yes, why not everyone else does, its called marketing.

JL Audio aren`t awesome because I sell them

I sell them because they are awesome, well to me they are and everyone else who has heard them here

if you want to come for a listen your welcome anytime

Allan

You were the one that first mention 'they' so not sure why you are asking me.

It seems that the Subs were ready but the release of the KK Subs then had a big impact on the original plan.

I have already heard the 113 and for me it did not live up to the asking price. It is well built and does look and feel expensive but to me the performance is probably worth around £1500 now that the DXD12012 has dropped in price. It reminded me of the old SVS SB13 but with a bit more punch and control. I much preferred the Velodyne DD12+ at the same price. I also preferred the Paradigm Sub 15 at £500 less. But then came the DXD12012 and at £2500 is was too good to ignore. Now it is down to £1979 I really could not imagine why anyone would weant to spend so much more for something with a lower performance. If a single Sub is required then it would take something like the Paradigm Sub1 to improve on the DXD12012 and possibly the Velodyne DD15+ would have a chance if onbaord EQ was required. But with both of them at around the £4500 mark I highly recommend making room for dual DXD12012s.

I am not saying the F113 is a bad Sub but it just is not worth £3695 and does not match the performance of a single DXD12012.

 

[Anonymous]

Not as fast, tight, deep, powerful, grippy, driven or hard hitting as a DXD12012. :hand:

so I take it thats from comparing them both side by side, your opinion is only valid if this has been done

has it been arrived at this way or is it just speculation

if you want to come and see for yourself then come along, i`ve got a DXD12012 here now

i`m on an install the rest of the day but free all sunday pm, the DXD12012 is going back to its owner at 3.30pm tomorrow afternoon so don`t miss this chance if you want to do a side by side comparison.

theirs a MX350, a Fathom f112 & f113 to compare it to

Allan

Yes I have heard the F113 as I have just pointed out.

 

[v1c]

http://www.jlaudio.co.uk/f212-gloss-home-audio-fathom-powered-subwoofers-96150

http://www.jlaudio.co.uk/home-audio-powered-subwoofers-gotham

I was thinking that a quattro quattro stack of DXD12012 was a bit unobtainable until i saw the price of the fathom gotham

£10995. So if you were to go with the recommended 4 sub option advocated by various publication that would be £43980

Taking the KK 4 sub quattro route would be £31664. Would 4 13.5" dual subs be better than 16 12" dual subs even discounting you'd be paying £12316 more. I think if you could afford to pay circa 31K for subwoofers you would have the room for Quattro Quattro stack.

I'm sure the Fathoms are great but they do seem a tad overpriced.

I think you have actually highlighted what great value the KK's are Rick :cheers:

 

[Frank Harvey]

At the moment v1c, we're seeing a few products emerging (hi-fi and AV) that are redefining what is possible for their price point. One of those are KEF's R series, another is Pioneer's new range of Class D hi-fi amplifiers, to name just two. Add to that the DXD12012. For the last couple of years, the subwoofer market has been hiked up in price, taking the high end out of reach of most people. Granted, some of these subs are built without fault, and could be dropped out of a first floor window and survive with only a few scratches. But when you actually look at what you get - in some cases, around £3k for a single 10" driver - it's just ludicrous. And adding in a bit of DSP doesn't make it VFM! I honestly thi that what we're looking at here is a product that is going to make manufacturers sit up and think, "s***, we've got to start from scratch!". Ken's "old but gold" dual 12" MX5100SF sub (considered by many to be the pinnacle of home theatre subwoofery) was £3300 - the DXD12012 outperforms that comfortably, and is under £2k - how is that not a game changer?

I know some will be thinking, "he sells them, he will say that", I'd like to say that I don't 'big up' anything that doesn't deserve it. If I claimed any old product was awesome, I'd just make myself look stupid to those that knew it wasn't. We took on Ken's products because we knew how good they were going to be. Those that have owned his MX subwoofers before know what I'm talking about, and this new range wasn't going to be any different (only better!). We knew they would be special, hence we asked for exclusivity.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

http://www.jlaudio.co.uk/f212-gloss-home-audio-fathom-powered-subwoofers-96150

http://www.jlaudio.co.uk/home-audio-powered-subwoofers-gotham

I was thinking that a quattro quattro stack of DXD12012 was a bit unobtainable until i saw the price of the fathom gotham

£10995. So if you were to go with the recommended 4 sub option advocated by various publication that would be £43980

Taking the KK 4 sub quattro route would be £31664. Would 4 13.5" dual subs be better than 16 12" dual subs even discounting you'd be paying £12316 more. I think if you could afford to pay circa 31K for subwoofers you would have the room for Quattro Quattro stack.

I'm sure the Fathoms are great but they do seem a tad overpriced.

I think you have actually highlighted what great value the KK's are Rick :cheers:

Hi v1c

Hold that thought :beer:

Anyway, i am comfortable with the pricing of the Fathom and Gotham sub woofers. If i wasn't then i would not support these products

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Anonymous]

Anyway, i am comfortable with the pricing of the Fathom and Gotham sub woofers. If i wasn't then i would not support these products

Hold that thought. :wave:

 

[v1c]

/O

 

[Anonymous]

I was in a fortunate enough position to listen to a quattro setup of the dxd12012 over the weekend and all I can say is that the bass on the whole was sharp and thunderous. The depth is there and the attack of the upper bass as well.

 

[v1c]

Sammy i am very envious of your experience

 

[Frank Harvey]

Sammy i am very envious of your experience

Why be envious v1c? Saturday 1st December.... >)

 

[v1c]

Oh you have an open day event. I'll have to see if i can get a rare Saturday off work :cheers:

 

[recruit]

See you on the 1st then

 

[Frank Harvey]

I wasn't going to mention it because it has always been against the rules, but it seems that those rules no longer exist, so yes, we have an open day on Saturday 1st December - there'll be a few new products on demo, and some exclusive first appearances

 

[recruit]

God, its been a while since I posted on this forum, did not know it had a KK thread going, good to see his new subs are getting the recognition they deserve :cheers:

 

[Anonymous]

Well none of these Subwoofers got an award, so I guess they all suck ass, right? :?

 

[recruit]

Well none of these Subwoofers got an award, so I guess they all suck ass, right? :?

I don't think that really needs answering does it

 

[Anonymous]

You know it.