professorhat
Well-known member
You're right, I suspect now it's all part of a wider conspiracy. Just like everything is these days it seems
Dave_
Well-known member
Will Harris:if I was writing a consumer mag, I'd ask for a demo loan model for a month or however long it's needed. I wouldn't wait for the manufacturer to offer it. You can't be utterly passive and expect to stay on top of things.I think that's assumption on your part somewhat! There are plenty of threads on the forum's where members have enquired about reviews of products and it's been stated that samples have been requested,so WHF clearly aren't just being passive.
I agree with that but at least be in the loop about which products are gaining almost cult status in the homes of AV enthusiastics and beg, borrow or steal them so that the rest of the public can see that they can get far better for their money sometimes. Oppo 983 is regarded to be the best upscaling player at any price (I know it was reviewed), Optoma HD65 has a cult status which enabled many of us to get a taste of what projectors can do. Under 550 pounds and HD ready when everything else around was 1000 pounds plus. BK subs, SVS subs, the list goes on.
I am sick that I paid what I paid for a Wharfedale sub. It was my fault, I did not research enough. I trusted one source. I now know that I need to use other forums. Thats all I had to do to find out what was available and which products were giant killers and why. Would be great if WHF could find the best value products available no matter what and inform the general public of them.
My Kit: Yamaha Z7 amp
PS3 (soon to be replaced by Oppo BD 983)
Optoma HD65 projector
XTC 99.25 Speakers LCR
XTC 93 WMT surround
Wharfedale SW150 (soon to be replaced by a BK Monolith)
I will start the kit list, hope others follow suit.
I am sick that I paid what I paid for a Wharfedale sub. It was my fault, I did not research enough. I trusted one source. I now know that I need to use other forums. Thats all I had to do to find out what was available and which products were giant killers and why. Would be great if WHF could find the best value products available no matter what and inform the general public of them.
My Kit: Yamaha Z7 amp
PS3 (soon to be replaced by Oppo BD 983)
Optoma HD65 projector
XTC 99.25 Speakers LCR
XTC 93 WMT surround
Wharfedale SW150 (soon to be replaced by a BK Monolith)
I will start the kit list, hope others follow suit.
We are getting way off topic here - as anyone who has been reading this forum for a while will know, we have been pushing Oppo for a review sample of the Blu-ray Disc player ever since it became known that one was forthcoming. And we have kept the Forum informed of our efforts to get hold of one.
However, the fact remains that the model currently being sold is not an official European one, but a grey import from the States, and that's why we won't be reviewing it.
However, the fact remains that the model currently being sold is not an official European one, but a grey import from the States, and that's why we won't be reviewing it.
AndrewH13
Well-known member
@ Will Steady on, I'm having enough trouble getting hold of one without a glowing WHF review
. Actually, after waiting for months for a Region B Oppo, went on holiday and missed all the fun. Pre-ordered last night and received acceptance email at 04.47AM. Man that guy is working all hours!
Agree with the sentiments made here, but have to chuckle at Andrew's initial dry responses! This will be the first Hi-Fi product I have bought without hearing (discounting the interim Samsung 1600 BluRay bought in a hissy fit when it seemed the Oppo was never going to arrive on these shores). But I'm sure all the feedback cant be wrong and I've had some YES DVD-Audios waiting for 2 years on the shelf waiting to be played. Might even buy some SACDs now!
http://community.whathifi.com/forums/6/274930/ShowThread.aspx
Agree with the sentiments made here, but have to chuckle at Andrew's initial dry responses! This will be the first Hi-Fi product I have bought without hearing (discounting the interim Samsung 1600 BluRay bought in a hissy fit when it seemed the Oppo was never going to arrive on these shores). But I'm sure all the feedback cant be wrong and I've had some YES DVD-Audios waiting for 2 years on the shelf waiting to be played. Might even buy some SACDs now!
http://community.whathifi.com/forums/6/274930/ShowThread.aspx
AndrewH13:I've had some YES DVD-Audios waiting for 2 years on the shelf waiting to be played. Might even buy some SACDs now!
I think you'll find SACD's sound far better than DVD Audio. With both formats there was always a lot made of the higher frequencies they could achieve (beyond the possibilities of my Proac's and my hearing!), but it is the bass that really impressed me with SACD.
As I've mentioned to Will, get yourself a XRCD or 2 (not many titles to choose from depending on your music taste). They'll play on any CD player and sound superb. It just shows what you can get from a plain old CD! To my ears, they come second only to SACD's.
I think you'll find SACD's sound far better than DVD Audio. With both formats there was always a lot made of the higher frequencies they could achieve (beyond the possibilities of my Proac's and my hearing!), but it is the bass that really impressed me with SACD.
As I've mentioned to Will, get yourself a XRCD or 2 (not many titles to choose from depending on your music taste). They'll play on any CD player and sound superb. It just shows what you can get from a plain old CD! To my ears, they come second only to SACD's.
There's nothing wrong with the Wharfedale Diamond SW150. I've been running one for over 4 years and love it though I am only using it in a small room and it is supporting Wharfedale's own Diamond 9 speakers with which it integrates perfectly.
As for the Oppo BDP-83, I'm expecting delivery of my hardware modded one this morning. Really looking forward to seeing what it can do!
As for the Oppo BDP-83, I'm expecting delivery of my hardware modded one this morning. Really looking forward to seeing what it can do!
It may be fine in a small space. I do not consider my cinema room that large at 4.5 X 5 meters but its underperforming in this size room. For the price there are much better subs available. Its a case of hearing the best for the price and buying on what your ears like best. For me the BK subs at this price wipe the floor with it. Just my opinion and thats what these forums are for afterall.
Really good point about not overwhelming Henry! I put in my order yesterday and I'm on the list. Expecting a mid to late July delivery.
Very curious about the XRCD, never heard one, but very keen to get into SACD, it's an incredible format. I'm hearing my rears and surrounds for the first time, really playing music. Glad they're actually quite capable speakers, even if not in the same league as my front three.
I can understand AndrewH13 ordering one without hearing it, I was very lucky to have 2 demos and one in my own home. So for perhaps the first time, I really KNOW it works in my listening environment and have been able to compare against my Pioneer. All I can say is that HDMI is amazing. All the formats down one cable, makes life soooo much easier. The Arcam really sings when fed by the Oppo. Let's all keep each other informed as our machines arrive.
There may be no official review. But the underground fan base is growing by the day.
Very curious about the XRCD, never heard one, but very keen to get into SACD, it's an incredible format. I'm hearing my rears and surrounds for the first time, really playing music. Glad they're actually quite capable speakers, even if not in the same league as my front three.
I can understand AndrewH13 ordering one without hearing it, I was very lucky to have 2 demos and one in my own home. So for perhaps the first time, I really KNOW it works in my listening environment and have been able to compare against my Pioneer. All I can say is that HDMI is amazing. All the formats down one cable, makes life soooo much easier. The Arcam really sings when fed by the Oppo. Let's all keep each other informed as our machines arrive.
There may be no official review. But the underground fan base is growing by the day.
AndrewH13
Well-known member
Cheers Pete, will scout around see whats available.
Will, its harder these days anyway to demo and especially to home demo. I used to bring lots of equipment home from Rayleigh Hi-Fi, these days they only stock more limited ranges so can never make a proper comparison. Needs info from Forums now to make an informed purchase. Not for speakers though that are next on my list! Looks like week after next for us late-comers for the BDP83
Will, its harder these days anyway to demo and especially to home demo. I used to bring lots of equipment home from Rayleigh Hi-Fi, these days they only stock more limited ranges so can never make a proper comparison. Needs info from Forums now to make an informed purchase. Not for speakers though that are next on my list! Looks like week after next for us late-comers for the BDP83
Will Harris:Really good point about not overwhelming Henry! I put in my order yesterday and I'm on the list. Expecting a mid to late July delivery. Very curious about the XRCD, never heard one, but very keen to get into SACD, it's an incredible format. I'm hearing my rears and surrounds for the first time, really playing music. Glad they're actually quite capable speakers, even if not in the same league as my front three. I can understand AndrewH13 ordering one without hearing it, I was very lucky to have 2 demos and one in my own home. So for perhaps the first time, I really KNOW it works in my listening environment and have been able to compare against my Pioneer. All I can say is that HDMI is amazing. All the formats down one cable, makes life soooo much easier. The Arcam really sings when fed by the Oppo. Let's all keep each other informed as our machines arrive. There may be no official review. But the underground fan base is growing by the day.Will, as your amp cannot handle DSD over HDMI, it might be worth trying the analogue outs on the Oppo for SACD.
hammill:Will Harris:Really good point about not overwhelming Henry! I put in my order yesterday and I'm on the list. Expecting a mid to late July delivery. Very curious about the XRCD, never heard one, but very keen to get into SACD, it's an incredible format. I'm hearing my rears and surrounds for the first time, really playing music. Glad they're actually quite capable speakers, even if not in the same league as my front three. I can understand AndrewH13 ordering one without hearing it, I was very lucky to have 2 demos and one in my own home. So for perhaps the first time, I really KNOW it works in my listening environment and have been able to compare against my Pioneer. All I can say is that HDMI is amazing. All the formats down one cable, makes life soooo much easier. The Arcam really sings when fed by the Oppo. Let's all keep each other informed as our machines arrive. There may be no official review. But the underground fan base is growing by the day.Will, as your amp cannot handle DSD over HDMI, it might be worth trying the analogue outs on the Oppo for SACD.
Oh, I thought it could handle it? Well, we ran the Oppo via HDMI and also Analogues into the Arcam with a number of SACDs and the HDMI sounded better. The amp said it was receiving a PCM signal so the Oppo must have done some decoding, but the sound was amazing. Slightly richer and fuller than the analogues so I'll stick with HDMI. We did set-up the Oppo so that the levels we matching the Arcam's and the distances also matched.
Oh, I thought it could handle it? Well, we ran the Oppo via HDMI and also Analogues into the Arcam with a number of SACDs and the HDMI sounded better. The amp said it was receiving a PCM signal so the Oppo must have done some decoding, but the sound was amazing. Slightly richer and fuller than the analogues so I'll stick with HDMI. We did set-up the Oppo so that the levels we matching the Arcam's and the distances also matched.
Will Harris:Oh, I thought it could handle it? Well, we ran the Oppo via HDMI and also Analogues into the Arcam with a number of SACDs and the HDMI sounded better. The amp said it was receiving a PCM signal so the Oppo must have done some decoding, but the sound was amazing. Slightly richer and fuller than the analogues so I'll stick with HDMI. We did set-up the Oppo so that the levels we matching the Arcam's and the distances also matched.
I don't think there are many amps that can decode DSD. I used have a Pioneer 757 DVD player which fed the DSD signal via firewire to my Pioneer i-link amp which could decode it, that was great. The Oppo will be converting the SACD DSD to PCM and then sending that to the Arcam, you should still be getting the higher bitrate/frequencies though. That's exactly what it would do if you used the analogue outs, obviously it's better to use the digital HDMI feed to make use of the speaker settings already made on the AVR600. Only thing to make sure is that it's not sending the normal CD track which are on a lot of SACD's.
I don't think there are many amps that can decode DSD. I used have a Pioneer 757 DVD player which fed the DSD signal via firewire to my Pioneer i-link amp which could decode it, that was great. The Oppo will be converting the SACD DSD to PCM and then sending that to the Arcam, you should still be getting the higher bitrate/frequencies though. That's exactly what it would do if you used the analogue outs, obviously it's better to use the digital HDMI feed to make use of the speaker settings already made on the AVR600. Only thing to make sure is that it's not sending the normal CD track which are on a lot of SACD's.
hammill:My Onkyo 875 supports DSD. One of the reasons the Oppo is so appealing.
And indeed why I am using one of Oppo's DVD players into an 875 myself...
And indeed why I am using one of Oppo's DVD players into an 875 myself...
Andrew Everard:
hammill:My Onkyo 875 supports DSD. One of the reasons the Oppo is so appealing.
And indeed why I am using one of Oppo's DVD players into an 875 myself...
My Denon 3808 will accept a DSD signal as well over both denon link and HDMI. I'm not sure if all Denons do or just the upper end ones, but I have a feeling that all the ones that can decode HD audio formats can recieve DSD. This is why I am interested in a universal BD player that will send all the formats over HDMI. (well that and the fact that my current BD deck, a panny bd30, was the first that could output all the BD audio formats as a bitstream, so an upgrade to a more mature deck would be nice)
hammill:My Onkyo 875 supports DSD. One of the reasons the Oppo is so appealing.
And indeed why I am using one of Oppo's DVD players into an 875 myself...
My Denon 3808 will accept a DSD signal as well over both denon link and HDMI. I'm not sure if all Denons do or just the upper end ones, but I have a feeling that all the ones that can decode HD audio formats can recieve DSD. This is why I am interested in a universal BD player that will send all the formats over HDMI. (well that and the fact that my current BD deck, a panny bd30, was the first that could output all the BD audio formats as a bitstream, so an upgrade to a more mature deck would be nice)
PIPPI
Well-known member
I just noticed Kris Deering has announced the 83 as his standing reference source component.
Dasp
Dasp
Oh dear WHF, you don't really want to be the last magazine to review this player do you? It's good to break rules every now and then, we dare you!
das:I just noticed Kris Deering has announced the 83 as his standing reference source component.
Who?
pete321:Oh dear WHF, you don't really want to be the last magazine to review this player do you? It's good to break rules every now and then, we dare you!
As I said, we're extremely keen to review this player - but only in an official European version, not as a grey import.
Who?
pete321:Oh dear WHF, you don't really want to be the last magazine to review this player do you? It's good to break rules every now and then, we dare you!
As I said, we're extremely keen to review this player - but only in an official European version, not as a grey import.
Andrew Everard:As I said, we're extremely keen to review this player - but only in an official European version, not as a grey import.
Andrew, I'm sorry to pull you up on this but the Oppo sold by CRT Projectors is NOT a grey import and to suggest it is casts an aspersion on Henry's business that is quite unwarranted. CRT are an official distributor of Oppo in the UK. The BDP-83 is not a grey import it is an authorised import by CRT from Oppo America. You'd be right in stating that it is the US version not the much awaited European version but it is not a grey import nor is it sourced from the grey market (from whence the term derives). You are actually doing Henry a disservice by continuing to state something that is incorrect and implies that CRT Projectors do not have a direct relationship with Oppo.
Andrew, I'm sorry to pull you up on this but the Oppo sold by CRT Projectors is NOT a grey import and to suggest it is casts an aspersion on Henry's business that is quite unwarranted. CRT are an official distributor of Oppo in the UK. The BDP-83 is not a grey import it is an authorised import by CRT from Oppo America. You'd be right in stating that it is the US version not the much awaited European version but it is not a grey import nor is it sourced from the grey market (from whence the term derives). You are actually doing Henry a disservice by continuing to state something that is incorrect and implies that CRT Projectors do not have a direct relationship with Oppo.
Will Harris:Andrew Everard:As I said, we're extremely keen to review this player - but only in an official European version, not as a grey import.
Andrew, I'm sorry to pull you up on this but the Oppo sold by CRT Projectors is NOT a grey import and to suggest it is casts an aspersion on Henry's business that is quite unwarranted. CRT are an official distributor of Oppo in the UK. The BDP-83 is not a grey import it is an authorised import by CRT from Oppo America. You'd be right in stating that it is the US version not the much awaited European version but it is not a grey import nor is it sourced from the grey market (from whence the term derives). You are actually doing Henry a disservice by continuing to state something that is incorrect and implies that CRT Projectors do not have a direct relationship with Oppo.
I did notice a reply from Oppo Digital Inc to a UK user in another forum suggesting he contact CRT Projectors re purchasing an 83.
Dasp
Andrew, I'm sorry to pull you up on this but the Oppo sold by CRT Projectors is NOT a grey import and to suggest it is casts an aspersion on Henry's business that is quite unwarranted. CRT are an official distributor of Oppo in the UK. The BDP-83 is not a grey import it is an authorised import by CRT from Oppo America. You'd be right in stating that it is the US version not the much awaited European version but it is not a grey import nor is it sourced from the grey market (from whence the term derives). You are actually doing Henry a disservice by continuing to state something that is incorrect and implies that CRT Projectors do not have a direct relationship with Oppo.
I did notice a reply from Oppo Digital Inc to a UK user in another forum suggesting he contact CRT Projectors re purchasing an 83.
Dasp
Well, OK, since the CRT Projectors fan-club is so insistent, and has now changed tack from its previous accusations of us bowing to pressure from the well-known manufacturers, I'm going to contact Oppo's European office and get clarification on whether the player the company is selling is an authorised import, and if so authorised by whom.
I'll also be asking Oppo whether CRT offers full servicing of this machine, and whether the modifications it's offering are also authorised by the manufacturer.
I'll report back when I have a reply.
I'll also be asking Oppo whether CRT offers full servicing of this machine, and whether the modifications it's offering are also authorised by the manufacturer.
I'll report back when I have a reply.
Andrew Everard:
Well, OK, since the CRT Projectors fan-club is so insistent, and has now changed tack from its previous accusations of us bowing to pressure from the well-known manufacturers, I'm going to contact Oppo's European office and get clarification on whether the player the company is selling is an authorised import, and if so authorised by whom.
I'll also be asking Oppo whether CRT offers full servicing of this machine, and whether the modifications it's offering are also authorised by the manufacturer.
I'll report back when I have a reply.
Andrew
Out of interest can you also ask if a product bought via Oppo Shop (Sweden) is my purchasing (contract) governed by English or Swedish law ?
Dasp
Well, OK, since the CRT Projectors fan-club is so insistent, and has now changed tack from its previous accusations of us bowing to pressure from the well-known manufacturers, I'm going to contact Oppo's European office and get clarification on whether the player the company is selling is an authorised import, and if so authorised by whom.
I'll also be asking Oppo whether CRT offers full servicing of this machine, and whether the modifications it's offering are also authorised by the manufacturer.
I'll report back when I have a reply.
Andrew
Out of interest can you also ask if a product bought via Oppo Shop (Sweden) is my purchasing (contract) governed by English or Swedish law ?
Dasp
Andrew Everard:
Well, OK, since the CRT Projectors fan-club is so insistent, and has now changed tack from its previous accusations of us bowing to pressure from the well-known manufacturers, I'm going to contact Oppo's European office and get clarification on whether the player the company is selling is an authorised import, and if so authorised by whom.
I'll also be asking Oppo whether CRT offers full servicing of this machine, and whether the modifications it's offering are also authorised by the manufacturer.
I'll report back when I have a reply.
Andrew, Oppo Europe are in fact Oppo Sweden. They don't produce the player. Why would you contact them and not Oppo USA, the actual company? But nonetheless, I'm sure that Oppo Sweden will confirm that all is well with CRT Projectors.
CRT are a retailer. What sort of servicing would you expect them to do other than the usual of taking in the player and either returning it to the parent manufacturer for repair or the manufacturers own authorised service centre in the UK?
As for the mod, it's at the owners own risk. So no doubt you'll be able to pick holes in the offer if you do you darndest, which you seem to be awfully keen to do. Of course, you'll find out that CRT warranties the machine for 12 months and no-doubt you'll consider that to be substandard when compared to an "official manufacturer authorised" modification. So yes. Go ahead and pick holes and give yourself a few excellent bureaucratic reasons to continue not to test it and therefore keep your readers in the dark. So far you appear to be more keen to do the leg work on why you shouldn't test it, than to get one in and stick it on your test rig.
Why can't we go back to the days of embracing products that bust out of the straightjackets the industry sometimes impose. The hardware mod will never be an authorised modification because Oppo are bound by the BluRay Forum rules. So they can't make a multi-region player. So what do you expect to find? Only the obvious. Oppo are unlikely to explicitly state they endorse it or they could have their license removed. What they did do, was leave very easy to use connections inside the player, to supply power and connectivity to any mod someone might like to cunningly add at a later date. Rather good of them if you ask me, and about the nearest you're likely to get to an endorsement of the modification by the manufacturer.
Well, OK, since the CRT Projectors fan-club is so insistent, and has now changed tack from its previous accusations of us bowing to pressure from the well-known manufacturers, I'm going to contact Oppo's European office and get clarification on whether the player the company is selling is an authorised import, and if so authorised by whom.
I'll also be asking Oppo whether CRT offers full servicing of this machine, and whether the modifications it's offering are also authorised by the manufacturer.
I'll report back when I have a reply.
Andrew, Oppo Europe are in fact Oppo Sweden. They don't produce the player. Why would you contact them and not Oppo USA, the actual company? But nonetheless, I'm sure that Oppo Sweden will confirm that all is well with CRT Projectors.
CRT are a retailer. What sort of servicing would you expect them to do other than the usual of taking in the player and either returning it to the parent manufacturer for repair or the manufacturers own authorised service centre in the UK?
As for the mod, it's at the owners own risk. So no doubt you'll be able to pick holes in the offer if you do you darndest, which you seem to be awfully keen to do. Of course, you'll find out that CRT warranties the machine for 12 months and no-doubt you'll consider that to be substandard when compared to an "official manufacturer authorised" modification. So yes. Go ahead and pick holes and give yourself a few excellent bureaucratic reasons to continue not to test it and therefore keep your readers in the dark. So far you appear to be more keen to do the leg work on why you shouldn't test it, than to get one in and stick it on your test rig.
Why can't we go back to the days of embracing products that bust out of the straightjackets the industry sometimes impose. The hardware mod will never be an authorised modification because Oppo are bound by the BluRay Forum rules. So they can't make a multi-region player. So what do you expect to find? Only the obvious. Oppo are unlikely to explicitly state they endorse it or they could have their license removed. What they did do, was leave very easy to use connections inside the player, to supply power and connectivity to any mod someone might like to cunningly add at a later date. Rather good of them if you ask me, and about the nearest you're likely to get to an endorsement of the modification by the manufacturer.
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