I don't think it is fair to accuse What HIFI of anti Oppo bias. My own interest in the Oppo blu-ray was sparked when Andrew recommended the oppo DVD player (which he owns) as a DSD sacd player. However, I would add my request that the Oppo blu-ray player is tested ASAP. I am seriously considering buying the payer, and as it is not available to audition, the views of the team woulkd be extremely useful - this is the sort of thing I pay my subscription for.
And having tested it and found it to be quite astonishingly good, I'd like the rest of the world to know too, from the only mag I trust.
hammill:I don't think it is fair to accuse What HIFI of anti Oppo bias. My own interest in the Oppo blu-ray was sparked when Andrew recommended the oppo DVD player (which he owns) as a DSD sacd player. However, I would add my request that the Oppo blu-ray player is tested ASAP. I am seriously considering buying the payer, and as it is not available to audition, the views of the team woulkd be extremely useful - this is the sort of thing I pay my subscription for.
No disrespect to the What HiFi ? team but there is plenty of reliable info on this product from very reputable and respected review sources already available. I appreciate that isn't what you pay your subscription for.
Another poster made a point about the ability to audition products which is a fair comment. I tried to demo several products locally before purchase such as the Denon 3800, A1UD and LX91. No dealers within a reasonable driving distance had these products on demo and would only special order. Also some premium brands force an "in store" purchase thus given my previous comment if it doesn't work in your environement you have limited options. The Oppo selling model is different and because of this you should be covered by distance selling regulations when purchased in the UK. Thus if the product doesn't do what it says it does or doesn't work in your environment you have options.
Dasp
No disrespect to the What HiFi ? team but there is plenty of reliable info on this product from very reputable and respected review sources already available. I appreciate that isn't what you pay your subscription for.
Another poster made a point about the ability to audition products which is a fair comment. I tried to demo several products locally before purchase such as the Denon 3800, A1UD and LX91. No dealers within a reasonable driving distance had these products on demo and would only special order. Also some premium brands force an "in store" purchase thus given my previous comment if it doesn't work in your environement you have limited options. The Oppo selling model is different and because of this you should be covered by distance selling regulations when purchased in the UK. Thus if the product doesn't do what it says it does or doesn't work in your environment you have options.
Dasp
And you'll never find a more helpful dealer than Henry at CRT Projectors. I'm on the list for a player once he has stock in a weeks time. Instant response by e-mail. And immediate answers to queries. There are enough enthusiasts with players, that if the forums work, you can get a demo. You may have to use a forum with PM capability though to accomodate this, and I did. Great to meet fellow forum users. It is a real community out there.
Like you guys I would love to see a comparative review from one of the most trusted sources on this product. It is one that I am very interested in purchasing as well. However I don't think that it's beyond comprehension as to why we won't see a review until an official European product is released. I'm sure that there are other publications that have a more flexible policy towards reviewing "grey market imports" and mod-ed products, but WHFSAV's standpoint on reviewing products that are freely available to the public in factory spec with a full manufacturer's guarantee should be respected as well. Yes this product is available to buy in the UK, but it doesn't carry a manufacturer's warranty - it carries a twelve month warranty from the seller who is performing the modification. I think as a consumer education publication WHF has a duty to recommend products that are fully above-board where all of the consumers' rights are legally protected in a binding contract between them and the manufacturer of the product.
It just seems a bit unfair to direct this torrent of abuse and accusations of back-handers from the competing manufacturers when reasons for WHF waiting until a proper UK product to be released seem perfectly sound. I don't think that just because we want it to be so is reason enough to have a go.
It just seems a bit unfair to direct this torrent of abuse and accusations of back-handers from the competing manufacturers when reasons for WHF waiting until a proper UK product to be released seem perfectly sound. I don't think that just because we want it to be so is reason enough to have a go.
Tom, the contract is always with the seller of the product, not the manafacturer (although the manafacturer may choose to offer extra guarantees). Under European law, consumer durables such as a blu-ray player have a 2 year guarantee (you could argue that under UK law it is 6, but that is harder to enforce). Most companies try and deny this, but the law is quite clear.
I should also add, that I don't expect WHF to recommend the player, but review it. It is for the consumer to make the purchasing decision, it is WHF we rely upon to inform as and educate us. The "grey" status of the Oppo is utterly irrelevant in holding back WHF from reviewing it and rating it. this is a quite objective task and exactly the role the mag is here to fulfil. They're welcome to highlight the dangers of buying an import from an approved retailer if they believe it would help the readership. What I am less keen on is seeing hype around new Denon players due out soon, which will cost more than the Oppo and possibly perform less well and not be universal players to boot. Whether this is the case, is precisely why I want WHF to review the Oppo. It may become the benchmark against which other players are judged. Whether it is officially released in Region B or not, is hardly the point.
Big Aura
Well-known member
WHF, in reviewing or recommending this product, will be giving their stamp of approval to something that doesn't have the back-up of a legit dealer network and proper service/warranty options. I'm sure "Henry at CRT Projectors" is a really wonderful guy (Henry, if you're reading, please provide references!), but in all honesty, a respected journal like WHF really doesn't want to advise readers that "this is the one", to find out that, in 6 weeks thousands of punters all point the finger at them when there's a mass-failure of the units, and CRT Projectors can't make good on thousands of claims, and OPPO (rightly) claim that this is a non-EU model, and it's not their fault they've all gone bad.
I've read on here that a few of the WHF staffers are patiently awaiting a Euro release, but until then, they cannot stick their seal of approval on a grey import.
I've read on here that a few of the WHF staffers are patiently awaiting a Euro release, but until then, they cannot stick their seal of approval on a grey import.
I'm shaking my head in disbelief. This is as insane as banning parents from photographing their own children at sportsday.
They're reviewing it not taking responsibility for every manufacturer fault that might occure. Heaven help Car magazines that reviewed any Rover cars over the years.
This is PC nonsense of the highest order. Is this the sort of country we live in, dominated by fear and litigation?
Just review the player and say whether it's any good in your view as a consumer magazine, don't offer a warranty and don't say anything that isn't true about its availability. Just review it.
They're reviewing it not taking responsibility for every manufacturer fault that might occure. Heaven help Car magazines that reviewed any Rover cars over the years.
This is PC nonsense of the highest order. Is this the sort of country we live in, dominated by fear and litigation?
Just review the player and say whether it's any good in your view as a consumer magazine, don't offer a warranty and don't say anything that isn't true about its availability. Just review it.
Big Aura:
and OPPO (rightly) claim that this is a non-EU model, and it's not their fault they've all gone bad.
A fair point and it really depends if the opinion of What HiFi ? means anything. I'm sure for many it does and for many it doesn't.
Interestingly Oppo direct have been very supportive and responsive in my dealings with them and they are well aware I'm a UK customer of a multi-region US BD83 player purchased from CRT. I don't know of many other manufacturers or retailers who respond to email on Sundays in a meaningful way.
Regarding Henry at CRT he's been in the business for many years and if you look you will find feedback but probably not on this forum.
Dasp
and OPPO (rightly) claim that this is a non-EU model, and it's not their fault they've all gone bad.
A fair point and it really depends if the opinion of What HiFi ? means anything. I'm sure for many it does and for many it doesn't.
Interestingly Oppo direct have been very supportive and responsive in my dealings with them and they are well aware I'm a UK customer of a multi-region US BD83 player purchased from CRT. I don't know of many other manufacturers or retailers who respond to email on Sundays in a meaningful way.
Regarding Henry at CRT he's been in the business for many years and if you look you will find feedback but probably not on this forum.
Dasp
The Oppo DBP-83 certainly looks and sounds like an outstanding blu-ray machine. Following this thread, I've read countless detailed reviews on this player and for a player that is so comprehensively specified, it is selling for a rather reasonable price, looking at the competition. It certainly sounds like it's performance is way beyond it's price point.
If anyone is keen to buy this player, why wait for WHF's verdict? They are not the definitive reviewers. There are countless other international reviewers that have had a go at this machine and gave it glowing accolades and tributes. So, just go out and get it!
I understand perfectly WHF's view on 'grey imports' - that's a policy as far as the magazine is concerned, and we must respect that. Having WHF's 'stamp of approval' would mean a lot to most of us, since it's our favourite magazine. Unfortunately, until a 'European version' is released, it's not going to happen. Accept it and move on.
If anyone is keen to buy this player, why wait for WHF's verdict? They are not the definitive reviewers. There are countless other international reviewers that have had a go at this machine and gave it glowing accolades and tributes. So, just go out and get it!
I understand perfectly WHF's view on 'grey imports' - that's a policy as far as the magazine is concerned, and we must respect that. Having WHF's 'stamp of approval' would mean a lot to most of us, since it's our favourite magazine. Unfortunately, until a 'European version' is released, it's not going to happen. Accept it and move on.
Will Harris:I'm shaking my head in disbelief. This is as
insane as banning parents from photographing their own children at
sportsday.
So far in this thread, you've accused us of being ruled by some mysterious cabal of well-known brandnames, who have been making non-existent threatening phone-calls because they're scared their entire business will be undermined by one company grey improting a few non-European-spec Blu-ray Disc players.
Now we're apparently afraid of litigation, and taking political correctness to a ridiculous extreme.
Are you sure you're not getting this just a tiny bit out of proportion?
insane as banning parents from photographing their own children at
sportsday.
So far in this thread, you've accused us of being ruled by some mysterious cabal of well-known brandnames, who have been making non-existent threatening phone-calls because they're scared their entire business will be undermined by one company grey improting a few non-European-spec Blu-ray Disc players.
Now we're apparently afraid of litigation, and taking political correctness to a ridiculous extreme.
Are you sure you're not getting this just a tiny bit out of proportion?
Big Aura
Well-known member
das:Big Aura:
and OPPO (rightly) claim that this is a non-EU model, and it's not their fault they've all gone bad.
A fair point and it really depends if the opinion of What HiFi ? means anything. I'm sure for many it does and for many it doesn't.
do a search of "clouding" and Sony LCD and you'll see the ire heaped upon WHF for not mentioning an issue that wasn't even present in their test set.
das:
Interestingly Oppo direct have been very supportive and responsive in my dealings with them and they are well aware I'm a UK customer of a multi-region US BD83 player purchased from CRT. I don't know of many other manufacturers or retailers who respond to email on Sundays in a meaningful way.
As a Denon owner, that sounds like the promised land! However it's easy to manage a few dozen issues from a few hundred owners, it's when there are thousands of owners and no proper infrastructure to process/handle all queries that the wheels come off the wagon. OPPO may wish to help, and they do, but at the same time, they're well within their rights to decline. Which they may do, when the cost of fixing/dealing far out-weighs the goodwill they've engendered.
das:
Regarding Henry at CRT he's been in the business for many years and if you look you will find feedback but probably not on this forum.
A reference for Henry, two more and I'll consider him an offical "good skin".
Andrew - as for your mysterious cabal; are you sure it's not a mysterious cable? (Probably a high-end HDMI one at that...!).
and OPPO (rightly) claim that this is a non-EU model, and it's not their fault they've all gone bad.
A fair point and it really depends if the opinion of What HiFi ? means anything. I'm sure for many it does and for many it doesn't.
do a search of "clouding" and Sony LCD and you'll see the ire heaped upon WHF for not mentioning an issue that wasn't even present in their test set.
das:
Interestingly Oppo direct have been very supportive and responsive in my dealings with them and they are well aware I'm a UK customer of a multi-region US BD83 player purchased from CRT. I don't know of many other manufacturers or retailers who respond to email on Sundays in a meaningful way.
As a Denon owner, that sounds like the promised land! However it's easy to manage a few dozen issues from a few hundred owners, it's when there are thousands of owners and no proper infrastructure to process/handle all queries that the wheels come off the wagon. OPPO may wish to help, and they do, but at the same time, they're well within their rights to decline. Which they may do, when the cost of fixing/dealing far out-weighs the goodwill they've engendered.
das:
Regarding Henry at CRT he's been in the business for many years and if you look you will find feedback but probably not on this forum.
A reference for Henry, two more and I'll consider him an offical "good skin".
Andrew - as for your mysterious cabal; are you sure it's not a mysterious cable? (Probably a high-end HDMI one at that...!).
jase fox
Well-known member
Will - Are you sure your not on commission for Oppo? WHSAV havnt said there NOT going to review it but there just waiting for a European version of the player, ok you sound very delighted with this machine as im sure were all going to find out for ourselves one day, your sounding like you've only just discovered BLURAY in general Will !
Just get yourself a beer, chill out mate & be patient as to be honest even if i did have a demo of the Oppo i cant see myself wanting to quickly trade in my Denon 2500BT for one, maybe if i hadnt already got a bluray player i "may" consider it but im sure i wouldnt be eager to ditch my Denon as its hardly a low class product.
Just get yourself a beer, chill out mate & be patient as to be honest even if i did have a demo of the Oppo i cant see myself wanting to quickly trade in my Denon 2500BT for one, maybe if i hadnt already got a bluray player i "may" consider it but im sure i wouldnt be eager to ditch my Denon as its hardly a low class product.
I don't have a blu-ray playerm as none currently meet my requirements. The descriptions of the usability of current machines suggest that they are for early adopters only. I want a blu-ray player that
1. Has a great picture. (Commonly available)
2. Supports SACD with good quality at a reasonable price (None available)
3. Starts up in a reasonable time as I have kids who will not wait 2 minutes for a film to start. (None available).
The reviews of the oppo I have read suggests it is the only player to fulfull my requirements.That is why I am impatient for a review from What HiFi
1. Has a great picture. (Commonly available)
2. Supports SACD with good quality at a reasonable price (None available)
3. Starts up in a reasonable time as I have kids who will not wait 2 minutes for a film to start. (None available).
The reviews of the oppo I have read suggests it is the only player to fulfull my requirements.That is why I am impatient for a review from What HiFi
jase fox:i cant see myself wanting to quickly trade in my Denon 2500BT for one.
I can! Some poor soul just paid me £470 for my 2500BT, £350 brand new would have been a fair price for it!
I can understand WHF's position on grey imports, but as Will has mentioned the spec and reported performance of the Oppo does make it an important entry into the higher end blu-ray market based on the quality of overpriced machines like the 2500BT. It's not even definate that there will be a European model, the one scheduled for release has a lot less features.
I can! Some poor soul just paid me £470 for my 2500BT, £350 brand new would have been a fair price for it!
I can understand WHF's position on grey imports, but as Will has mentioned the spec and reported performance of the Oppo does make it an important entry into the higher end blu-ray market based on the quality of overpriced machines like the 2500BT. It's not even definate that there will be a European model, the one scheduled for release has a lot less features.
hammill:
I don't have a blu-ray playerm as none currently meet my requirements. The descriptions of the usability of current machines suggest that they are for early adopters only. I want a blu-ray player that
1. Has a great picture. (Commonly available)
2. Supports SACD with good quality at a reasonable price (None available)
3. Starts up in a reasonable time as I have kids who will not wait 2 minutes for a film to start. (None available).
The reviews of the oppo I have read suggests it is the only player to fulfill my requirements.That is why I am impatient for a review from What HiFi
Operationally it is in a different league to the products I've used in my setup recently those being the Denon 2500 and 3800, Pio LX91, Sony S350, Panny BD60 and PS3( similar operational speed).
In terms of your other requirements it appears only the Denon A1UD and future Denon 4010 will offer SACD and Blu-ray but if the speed of the current A1UD is anything to go by they they are operationally slow.
Dasp
I don't have a blu-ray playerm as none currently meet my requirements. The descriptions of the usability of current machines suggest that they are for early adopters only. I want a blu-ray player that
1. Has a great picture. (Commonly available)
2. Supports SACD with good quality at a reasonable price (None available)
3. Starts up in a reasonable time as I have kids who will not wait 2 minutes for a film to start. (None available).
The reviews of the oppo I have read suggests it is the only player to fulfill my requirements.That is why I am impatient for a review from What HiFi
Operationally it is in a different league to the products I've used in my setup recently those being the Denon 2500 and 3800, Pio LX91, Sony S350, Panny BD60 and PS3( similar operational speed).
In terms of your other requirements it appears only the Denon A1UD and future Denon 4010 will offer SACD and Blu-ray but if the speed of the current A1UD is anything to go by they they are operationally slow.
Dasp
EvilWolf:
I understand perfectly WHF's view on 'grey imports' - that's a policy as far as the magazine is concerned, and we must respect that. Having WHF's 'stamp of approval' would mean a lot to most of us, since it's our favourite magazine. Unfortunately, until a 'European version' is released, it's not going to happen. Accept it and move on.
Thank you. This thread is getting a bit crazy ain't it? By the sounds of it, the OPPO is a great BD player and there are quite a few people buying it exactly for that reason. (hell, CRT are sold out now until more units ship) But at the end of the day it is a Blu-ray player right? It sounds as though it is being implied that if WHF review it it will become the only deck people will ever buy ever again, which simply isn't the case. I myself am very tempted to get one, but the fact that it is grey-market does make me slightly wary even though the stories that have been posted so far seem to indicate OPPO's gracious stance on supporting non factory-spec machines. Unfortunately for us, OPPO seems not be intending on building the full spec DBP-83 for some time still and instead seems intent on sending Europeans a "Lite" version with a less stellar video processor. Personally a massive pet-peeve of mine is manufacturers' treatment of Europeans as second-class consumers, but I digress... Hopefully by Christmas we can see a review of the full European spec "Non-Lite" machine pitted against all the other mid-level machines by all the other major manufacturers.
I understand perfectly WHF's view on 'grey imports' - that's a policy as far as the magazine is concerned, and we must respect that. Having WHF's 'stamp of approval' would mean a lot to most of us, since it's our favourite magazine. Unfortunately, until a 'European version' is released, it's not going to happen. Accept it and move on.
Thank you. This thread is getting a bit crazy ain't it? By the sounds of it, the OPPO is a great BD player and there are quite a few people buying it exactly for that reason. (hell, CRT are sold out now until more units ship) But at the end of the day it is a Blu-ray player right? It sounds as though it is being implied that if WHF review it it will become the only deck people will ever buy ever again, which simply isn't the case. I myself am very tempted to get one, but the fact that it is grey-market does make me slightly wary even though the stories that have been posted so far seem to indicate OPPO's gracious stance on supporting non factory-spec machines. Unfortunately for us, OPPO seems not be intending on building the full spec DBP-83 for some time still and instead seems intent on sending Europeans a "Lite" version with a less stellar video processor. Personally a massive pet-peeve of mine is manufacturers' treatment of Europeans as second-class consumers, but I digress... Hopefully by Christmas we can see a review of the full European spec "Non-Lite" machine pitted against all the other mid-level machines by all the other major manufacturers.
Hammill fill your boots mate! If you want best bang for buck IMO you have to sometimes go for products that WHF havn't reviewed. My XTZ speakers and BK sub weren't reviewed here but everything else in my system was.
Is there a conspiracy with WHF not reviewing this player - no i think it's simply not officially region B / European model! I think it's a dead cert for 5 stars if ever there was one.
Is there a conspiracy with WHF not reviewing this player - no i think it's simply not officially region B / European model! I think it's a dead cert for 5 stars if ever there was one.
professorhat
Well-known member
Big Aura:do a search of "clouding" and Sony LCD and you'll see the ire heaped upon WHF for not mentioning an issue that wasn't even present in their test set.
I'm not sure why people are pushing What HiFi? to undertake a review given all the in depth info that is already available from reputable sources. It certainly doesn't influence by decision making process.
Dasp
I'm not sure why people are pushing What HiFi? to undertake a review given all the in depth info that is already available from reputable sources. It certainly doesn't influence by decision making process.
Dasp
Andrew Everard:How many times are you going to have this pop, das?
It's not a pop I just don't understand why you are being given a hard time over a not reviewing something given the amount of info available.
Dasp
It's not a pop I just don't understand why you are being given a hard time over a not reviewing something given the amount of info available.
Dasp
I do consider What Hi-Fi's reviews when I make my buying decisions. I've learned a lot from the mag over the years and I don't have time or the available dealers (nor the inclination to waste their time) to test every product that's launched. That's why I rely on WHF to keep me up to date. That's why I subscribe. I'm a fan, I don't have an agenda as such, but I would like to see the Oppo reviewed. That's all. At least this thread is getting some coverage 
jase fox
Well-known member
pete321:
jase fox:i cant see myself wanting to quickly trade in my Denon 2500BT for one.
I can! Some poor soul just paid me £470 for my 2500BT, .
He's far from a poor soul, if anything he's the one that got the cream !! I remember when i bought a Denon 3910 DVD player for £900 & i was absolutely over the moon with that as it was a cracking DVD player probably one of the best "i" ever used & worth every penny, so when it came for me to have to trade it for a bluray player Denon didnt have any machines out so i had to opt for a Pioneer LX70 (now that was a heap of junk, thats another story)if they did i would of got another Denon. So when the 2500BT came out not only is it a stunning bluray player but also its better than what the 3910 was for DVD performance & at the same price i paid for the 3910 ! & to think youve sold yours for 470? I would of given you 500 & told you to keep the change.
jase fox:i cant see myself wanting to quickly trade in my Denon 2500BT for one.
I can! Some poor soul just paid me £470 for my 2500BT, .
He's far from a poor soul, if anything he's the one that got the cream !! I remember when i bought a Denon 3910 DVD player for £900 & i was absolutely over the moon with that as it was a cracking DVD player probably one of the best "i" ever used & worth every penny, so when it came for me to have to trade it for a bluray player Denon didnt have any machines out so i had to opt for a Pioneer LX70 (now that was a heap of junk, thats another story)if they did i would of got another Denon. So when the 2500BT came out not only is it a stunning bluray player but also its better than what the 3910 was for DVD performance & at the same price i paid for the 3910 ! & to think youve sold yours for 470? I would of given you 500 & told you to keep the change.
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