NVA Cube 2 review

[nvahifi]

are you a liar!

if you have the intelligence to read it and understand it.

stay cool everyone as Richard Dunn is warming up

Im going to have to weed that thread out and copy / paste

One of my pet hates.

Let me check my calendar for really boring tedius to do list

You brought it up I didn't. I can't find it, so I thought you might help me. There is suspicion that comes from circumstancial evdence that he was have problems with cabinet damage on his AVi. This saga then erupts from what *should* have been a simple process, with injected agendas and obvious attempts at personal damage to me and damage to NVA. It seems since the eruption all his problems with AVi have ended. Do you really think if I saw this coming I would have loaned him the gear with over £100 shipping costs paid for by me. No of course not, all of this has occurred after the event, and after AJ and JC got involved on the AVi forum, They have stopped it there as they know it is being played out here. Now this was just a very suspicious maybe, not an accusation, I was racking my brain to find a reason why the man changed so much. AND not just to me, he has completely reversed opinion about the first Bake-Off involving Lyndsay. If you look at the beginning of the HFS thread started by Darius you will see Lyndsay singing has praises and recommending I loan him gear, speak to him now about it.

 

[chebby]

Why is this being conducted here?

NVA have a forum. AVI have a forum.

Don't you have room in them?

 

[Andrewjvt]

From the nva forum
In no paticular order

The proof of an agenda is the post you have recently made at the AVi forum, nobody here now doubts that.

Also your back tracking on the bake-off with Lyndsay is proof someone has got at you - I wonder who 

Dr Bunsen Honeydew 21942 Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:26 pm Muppet Labs Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:33 pm

by jimbob » Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:36 pm

I think that because there is a lack of balance to your review. It's negative from start to finish to the point of seeming like it was written with an agenda. I'm pretty sure I could listen to any system and find something positive to say about aspects of it, even if the negatives outweighed the positives.

I'm going to do my best to arrange a bake off asap and would like you to attend.

Denon DCD-520AE CD Player, PS4 (Spotify), NVA P50 / CW SECA 10w(when built), Allison Six 'Doc Mod' speakers, NVA LS5 Speaker Cable, NVA SSC interconnects.

jimbob 539 Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:35 pm Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:33 pm

OK the conversation carries on.

Sadly it looks like Darius has flounced off as he left the forum and hasn't been back since his last post.

What we have now is a situation of totally opposite opinions on the same equipment by two different people. Now normally I accept "horses for courses" but they are SO wide apart something is going on. It will be nice to have either side have re-inforcement or justification in what they say and the future bake-off hopefully will give this.

I hate to think there is industry politics or just plain marketing lies behind this, but I have seen it so many times in this industry I cannot rule it out. Personally I am leaning on to the "I couldn't give a **** and didn't really want to do it in the first place" scenario. He is happy with his AVi, Lyndsay opened his ears and mind a little which he has now effectively backtracked from, so the pattern is there for all to see.

For me it serves a purpose even if it ends up to be thought of as having motivation, shall we say. As Jammy was saying it was getting embarrassing not to have a bad review in the review thread. Now I know there will never be many, as people are more motivated to write about like than dislike, unless there is a side motive. Anyway I have one now so no matter what the motives were I can stop thinking about it.

Well lets look through the round window.........

Darius is an AVI fanboy.
Darius is a long time (brainwashed) senior member of the AVI Forum.
Darius owns an AVI system.
Darius returns yer NVA kit with little regard to contents.
Darius is the only person (so far) to give a very damming review (1 out of 50).

Once again its obvious the Duckwit's set up would win, he was playing games.

: AVI vs...? bake off anyone?

by Dr Bunsen Honeydew » Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:12 am

Well this is now becoming very predictable. Email I just received from Darius. It seems he is going to transfer the now obvious agenda to What Hi-fi.

Dariusz Konkiewicz

12:06 AM (2 minutes ago)

to me
Hi Rich,

I must say you have quite a bunch of abusive and vicious customers and forum members !!! I understand that every small audio maker relay on and need support from customers and the forum is the place but.. hey, enough is enough.. even whf forum I post from time to time is more friendly and if I disagree with any of them I rather put together a funny comment than abusive and even if my funny is their abusive is still nowhere near 'fuckwit'
I'll put review of nva's there soon. more or less the same you already know.
Maybe there I'll have more polite discussion.

Regards,
Darius

My reply
If you have been back to look you will see I was out yesterday, when I came back the posts were moderated.

Yep, another agenda Monkey  should have geussed from his earlier threatening post below.

I think all the 3 threads should now be out there on other forums so other can have a bit of nva luxury treatment. (Darius).

Well Darius, post away, just remember to include the part about returned goods below.

Hi Richard,
Received the 3 boxes of NVA loan items, a few concerns.
Whoever re-packed these items deserves a kick in the nuts, just thrown in the boxes, no protection or care at all, I can see how they would originally been packed having received items from you previously and what is left of the packaging.
The AP50 box is soaking wet on the underneath and ripped/damaged in one corner with one speaker cable actually sticking out of the box. The amplifier itself it wet/condensation on the underside so I will dry it off, it is also a marked up mess, no bubble wrap, not cleaned etc.
I'm guessing the cubes, as they are demos, already had the corner chips/damage but none the less they are in a state, filthy dirty, smeared, finger prints and barely any protection.
It's more a respect thing really, to send on these items in this state is disgusting.
The speaker cables are so badly jammed in there with 2 being bent at such right angles back on them selves I'd be surprised if damage hadn't been done.
Some people just don't give a **** it seems. (Neil).

r Bunsen Honeydew » Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:33 am

Proper honest bake-offs or loan schemes are the complete answer to these problems. Which is why other manufacturers don't like them or want them, in fact they are scared shitless by them - customers having the power to see the truth  they can't cope with it.

Re: AVI vs...? bake off anyone?

by Dr Bunsen Honeydew » Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:10 pm

Predictable, now will the forum allow the correct information to be passed or a link to this thread - I will bet they don't, they have what they wanted, once again reality is meaningless.

y Dr Bunsen Honeydew » Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:32 pm

The proof of an agenda is the post you have recently made at the AVi forum, nobody here now doubts that.

Also your back tracking on the bake-off with Lyndsay is proof someone has got at you - I wonder who

e: AVI vs...? bake off anyone?

by Dr Bunsen Honeydew » Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:38 pm

I have only done this once before, and it is only done when it is obviously deserved. In this thread the ad hom rule is suspended, emotions, feeling of betrayal and fraud and motives and agendas etc are high, have at it and have fun.

BUT remember only this thread.

Dr Bunsen Honeydew 21942 Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:26 pm Muppet Labs Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:45 pm

o is darius going to deny that AJ has got to him, we know he has got FREE replacement for his marked AVi cabs that AVi *DO NOT NORMALLY DO* in fact they fight against any customer service that costs them money, are we seeing the payment   even more than that in this case also we should look at the sudden change of opinion and back tracking on opinion of Lyndsays Bake-Off.

Dr Bunsen Honeydew 21942 Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:26 pm Muppet Labs Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:46 pm

Cant be arsed to carry on

 

[lpv]

Im going to have to weed that thread out and copy / paste

One of my pet hates.

Let me check my calendar for really boring tedius to do list

Don't do it. These type of threads are an enormous waste of time and breed nothing but negative feeling and resentment. Don't fall into the trap and make the mistake of wasting half of your weekend.

Trust me I been there more times than I care to remember. It's pointless.

it's just a way to kill time on a night shift

 

[nvahifi]

Exactly Andrew, thank you for proving my point.

 

[chebby]

From the nva forum ...

Let's leave it there then?

Why drag the whole sorry looking mess over here? (None of you even like the software.)

 

[nvahifi]

I didn't bring this nonsense here Darius did. Ask yourself why!

He is still a member at HFS nothing is stopping him posting there. He will be challeged by other members, that is normal, and If Andrew believes strongly about it then he can join as well to support him. Then this silliness no longer needs to be here.

 

[chebby]

He is still a member at HFS ...

Hi-Fi Sounds?

Another forum?

 

[lpv]

I didn't bring this nonsense here Darius did. Ask yourself why!

why did you call my review nonsense?

 

[Andrewjvt]

From the nva forum ...

Let's leave it there then?

Why drag the whole sorry looking mess over here? (None of you even like the software.)

There is more to it than it appears right now. My motivation that is.

 

[steve_1979]

Im going to have to weed that thread out and copy / paste

One of my pet hates.

Let me check my calendar for really boring tedius to do list

Don't do it. These type of threads are an enormous waste of time and breed nothing but negative feeling and resentment. Don't fall into the trap and make the mistake of wasting half of your weekend.

Trust me, I've been there more times than I care to remember. It's pointless.

 

[Escapism]

After these seemingly friendly 'bake offs' can anyone confirm if Linsay is genuinly an annoying obsessive antagonist in real life, or if it's just an online persona to irritate and troll. I'm genuinely not interested.

Thanks

ps WTF is Nva??

 

[lpv]

I didn't bring this nonsense here Darius did. Ask yourself why!

He is still a member at HFS nothing is stopping him posting there. He will be challeged by other members, that is normal, and If Andrew believes strongly about it then he can join as well to support him. Then this silliness no longer needs to be here.

yeah, he won't answer my question: " why did you call my review nonsense" and instead he wants to drag us over HFS clan where his abusive customers can't digest any non positive comments.

I've been there Richard and your horde is the most vicious of all the forums I know... you're really have no shame coming here or telling HFS forum members to copy here in this thread link to HFS thread where your customers behave like monkeys

ps. if you would send my working speakers in the first place (instead of sending twice broken one) you probably wouldn't spend £100 on couriers ( which btw treated your parcels badly).

 

[lpv]

ps WTF is Nva??

Nonsense Vicious Apparatus

 

[nvahifi]

HFS = www.hifisubjectivist.org

nva = www.nvahifi.co.uk

 

[nvahifi]

OK Darius, your review was called nonsense because that is what it was, non sensicle. Apart from it was obvious you didn't like it, the reasoning and construction of the review was gobble-de-****, as at least 10 people have told you so far and questioned you (which YOU have refused to reply to) to qualify or explain what you are acyually saying. I know English is not your first language but your review was like a google translation of Polish text.

 

[lpv]

any non nva owner think my review is like google translation?

 

[Andrewjvt]

any non nva owner think my review is like google translation?

I wonder if the review was full of praise they would say the same?

Pathetic

 

[lindsayt]

That was a dig at LindsayT and his rating system? Did you not get that?

As in still trying to work out scm11s worth same as wharfedales 220s

I wouldn't rate SCM11's being worth the same amount of money as Wharfedale 220's.

As to my personal valuation of SCM11's it's quite simple and logical.

SCM11's lost - in terms of sound quality - in a bake-off to AVI DM10's.

DM10's cost what 2nd hand? £700? £800? Plus £200 for a sub.

We'd need to add the cost of a DAC or CD player and amplification to the SCM11's. A good enough digitial source can be had for a pretty neglible amount of money. So it's then a case of how much would we have to pay for the amplification? That will be a big fat "it depends".

I think about £500 would get a 2nd hand amplifier that may well not be as good as a Hegel H360, but would still be good enough to use with SCM11's.

And then comes the big personal judgement call. How much is the difference in sound quality between SCM11's and DM10's with sub worth? I'd put it at about £300. Someone else might value it at £1000, or £100.

So it's simple maths and logic. If you can get DM10's plus sub for £1000, SCM11's would be worth buying and keeping if you could get them for £200.

Now that to me is not trolling - it's just giving the very best, most direct and honest buying advice I can.

There is a very large number of speakers that I would put in the "Don't pay more than £50 for them if you want to keep them" category. Wharfedale 220's are one example.

 

[Andrewjvt]

That was a dig at LindsayT and his rating system? Did you not get that?

 

As in still trying to work out scm11s worth same as wharfedales 220s

I wouldn't rate SCM11's being worth the same amount of money as Wharfedale 220's.

As to my personal valuation of SCM11's it's quite simple and logical.

SCM11's lost - in terms of sound quality - in a bake-off to AVI DM10's.

DM10's cost what 2nd hand? £700? £800? Plus £200 for a sub.

We'd need to add the cost of a DAC or CD player and amplification to the SCM11's. A good enough digitial source can be had for a pretty neglible amount of money. So it's then a case of how much would we have to pay for the amplification? That will be a big fat "it depends".

I think about £500 would get a 2nd hand amplifier that may well not be as good as a Hegel H360, but would still be good enough to use with SCM11's.

And then comes the big personal judgement call. How much is the difference in sound quality between SCM11's and DM10's with sub worth? I'd put it at about £300. Someone else might value it at £1000, or £100.

So it's simple maths and logic. If you can get DM10's plus sub for £1000, SCM11's would be worth buying and keeping if you could get them for £200.

 

Now that to me is not trolling - it's just giving the very best, most direct and honest buying advice I can.

There is a very large number of speakers that I would put in the "Don't pay more than £50 for them if you want to keep them" category. Wharfedale 220's are one example.

In part i agree regarding your logic.
i agree the that the dm10 is better value for money than scm11 and good amp as pound for pound v sound quality etc.

I also agree that you can get more sound quality 2nd hand and buying old classic designs as you have.

But i believe that true strength and weakness of scm 11 was not shown in bake off as ive come to appreciate since using the hegel ht bypass and scm11s in hone theatre set up and extream high levels.
Youll be shocked at the output with no distortion or stress what so ever.

Dm10s with sub better bass
Scm11 v dm10 without sub - hows the bass

Another quality not tested was all the hisden details in the backing tracks etc. Something the hegel excels at and i did try compare and to be honest the dm10s were also good at this. We all listen differently.

These things take to long to do properly.

I also think that distortion can be concieved as volume at first and lack of distortion can be as if something is missing from the reproduction 'at first'. But after weeks with a set up a more realistic review could be formed. Then in hearing all these rules now regards scm11 and dm10s regarding worth as if we all agree on it and is a proven fact.

Its as if at bake off words used like 'wow' i could not believe how good those old ev sentrys sound

Is like everything you say will be held against you on forums to say that dm10 and scm11s sound drap
When its not the case at all.

I never mentioned how my wife and son, who i was trying so hard to sell the big ev's much prefered the scm11s when playing the cat stevens and rhcp.

And you can recall i was talking up the evs.

So my point is there is always more to it than a straight one is better than the other.

Both darius and myself also had question of congestion on the ev's or distortion that i picked up when i was close to driver and continued to hear while further away after.

Not serious issues but as you say all speakers are a compromise.

Ive only mentioned this or brought it up after Darius was treated by nva forum for not liking the sound of nva with the bake off being used as an order number.

 

[nvahifi]

I am just responding to the last paragraph. Once again reality is being twisted, I am obviously wondering why, and that is what creates conspiriacy doubts.

Anyway the *opinion* of the review was accepted at HFS, if dissagreed with by a large number of users, which is bound to happen as the forum contains largely nva users. The objections were to the *illogicality* of a lot of the points made, mostly because of *unqualified or unexplained statements*, then irritation followed when he refused to explain them.

Our other problem was the way the review was written which led to confusion and accusations of gobble-de-**** and google translation. We are of course refering here to the review as published at HFS I haven't compared the one here in detail or bothered to read it, just scanned it, as I presumed it was the same or at least very similar,

I have been around in this industry long enough (46 years) to see patterns of dubious behaviour when they happen, and AVi in the personas of AJ and JC have been serial offenders over the last few years. The web is wonderful, we can now point to this when we see it. If we had this ability in the past then anomalies like the flat earth couldn't have occured without serious questioning. And this questioning can be done in a way to create conflict or to create understanding. In this case the initiation was to create conflict, so the wish was fulfilled.

 

[chebby]

I still don't get it. You have a forum and AVI have a forum.

So why are you doing your dirty laundry here?

Most manufacturers have the 'decorum' to keep it all in-house or just visit here to assist people with technical difficulties. (Like Paul at Rega who behaves impeccably.)

As for the reference to 'conspiracy' ... this is the relative merits of some consumer durables you are talking about, NOT who was present (or not) on the grassy knoll during the Kennedy assassination! Get some perspective.

 

[nvahifi]

I am not, I am replying to another individual who is washing his dirty laundry, I didn't initiate this thread, I would prefer not to be on it, but I am honour bound to defend NVA, HFS, and myself from what are deliberate attempts at trolling reality.

 

[Mammy Nun]

After these seemingly friendly 'bake offs' can anyone confirm if Linsay is genuinly an annoying obsessive antagonist in real life, or if it's just an online persona to irritate and troll. I'm genuinely not interested.

Thanks

ps WTF is Nva??

If you aint intrested, may I suggest you escape elsewhere......!!!!

 

[shadders]

Hi,

It has been stated that the bass is “uncontrolled, slow and all over the place”, and that the crossover is a “capacitor”.

The stated benefit of an active loudspeaker is that the amplifier is directly connected to the speaker driver and has a greater degree of control.

The NVA amplifier and Cube 2 speakers closely match this topology, more so than other passive speakers available. Therefore the bass/mid driver of the Cube 2 will be under greater control than other speakers, which are assumed to have a 2nd order filter connecting the bass/mid driver.

Using speaker simulation software, the NVA Cube 2 sealed enclosure response has a slight rise about the 200Hz to 1kHz frequency range, is -6dB at 140Hz, and rolls off at -12dB/octave from 140Hz.

I have estimated the AVI DM10 port dimensions and the simulation of this enclosure meet the stated specifications of the AVI DM10. As such, the simulation is assumed to be accurate. This results in the bass extension being significantly less than the AVI DM10 – which is 50Hz at -6dB, against the NVA Cube 2 which is -6dB at 140Hz.

Given that the NVA Cube 2 is a sealed enclosure, and the amplifier connection to the bass/mid driver is direct, as per active speakers (although there may be a paralleled resistor/inductor on the output of the amplifier), the bass/mid driver will be under significantly more control than an alternative passive loudspeaker (assumption above) connected to the NVA amplifier.

Therefore, I would NOT expect that NVA system to have an “uncontrolled, slow, all over the place” bass, given this extra degree of control over the bass/mid driver and the reduced bass extension. The NVA crossover design and Cube 2 enclosure type would have the opposite impact.

I defer to speaker designers to confirm or refute the above.

Regards,

Shadders.