New amplifier: my long journey...

[Macspur]

Thanks for relaying your experience so far Ben.

Does that same dealer stock Harbeth Super HL5? They would give similar presentation to the P3's, but more of everything.

A friend of mine recently bought the Arrows and hooked them up to his Sugden pre/power combo and now unfortunately can't wait to get rid of them.

Look forward to your next installment.

Mac

 

[CnoEvil]

A friend of mine recently bought the Arrows and hooked them up to his Sugden pre/power combo and now unfortunately can't wait to get rid of them.

All the Totem speakers I've heard, sounded a little "shouty".

 

[egoBen]

Edit, sorry, forgot to qoute Mac.

Actually, they do, and I had a good look at them. The problem is that they are quite big in size and I have small living room. And I am afraid they will play too low bass which creates a boomyness in my room.

May I as why your friend wants to get rid of the Totem Arros? They seemed pretty easy to live with when I heard them.

 

[egoBen]

Here are their dealerships: http://www.audionote.co.uk/distributor/dist_home_01.shtml

Failing that, contact martin.grennall@audionote.co.uk (if he can help, he will).

I just sent an e-mail to the Audio Note importer where I live. The speaker called AN-K looks like something that could be of interest. Which ones have you heard and how would you describe them?

 

[CnoEvil]

I just sent an e-mail to the Audio Note importer where I live. The speaker called AN-K looks like something that could be of interest. Which ones have you heard and how would you describe them?

Here is the system I heard (room 057):
http://www.adventuresinhifiaudio.com/19/11/2010/northern-ireland-audio-show-part-three/

As you can see, the speakers (AN/E) were on the end of an all AN system.....I don't see any reason why they wouldn't work their magic on the end of your Jadis.

They are designed to go in the corners of the room, and the room then in effect becomes part of the speaker. This may sound like a terrible idea, but somehow it just works. I couldn't believe the sound that came out of this unassuming box....the bass went amazingly deep and proved tight and punchy.

The overall impression is one of a natural musicality, which delivers the passion of the musicians in full. This is the opposite of a cold analytical speaker, and just sounds "right"...it stops all that analysis of the sound, as it just gets out of the way, allowing you to forget the speakers are there. They never sound harsh or bright.

Please don't get the impression that they are overly warm and dead, as in fact they are dramatic, exciting and full of life. For a speaker that looks like a school woodwork project, they deliver a very surprising level of performance.

As you can see I'm a fan, and this is purely my opinion.....please let me know how you get on as I'd be interested to see if their baby brothers deliver something approaching this.

Cno

 

[egoBen]

Thank you, this is good information and according to your impression I will probably like what I hear if I get the chance. However, I will not be able to listen to anything in four weeks from now since I am going to a vacation to the states but who knows, I might pop into some hifi store, for instance in New York or San Francisco, there should be plenty of them. But when I have no chance of buying anything, I don't feel relaxed listening seriously, and I won't bring my own music anyway. If there is something nice already playing in the store I will definately listen to whatever is playing.

I am in no hurry whatsoever and will continue my search more extensively when I get back. Hopefully there is some money left on the account although I strongly doubt it. 🙂

 

[Macspur]

Edit, sorry, forgot to qoute Mac.

Actually, they do, and I had a good look at them. The problem is that they are quite big in size and I have small living room. And I am afraid they will play too low bass which creates a boomyness in my room.

May I as why your friend wants to get rid of the Totem Arros? They seemed pretty easy to live with when I heard them.

My listening room is only 7ft by 13 with a low ceiling and the SHL5's work perfectly... I tried many speakers before settling on them, ProAc, Usher, B&W, Audio Vector, Mark&Daniel all of which gave me the same problem as you with horribly boomy base, but the Harbeths thankfully were the answer. Also Harbeth is a brand known to work well with valves.

The guy with Arrows has found them to be too shouty and forward... he too has quite a small listening room.

Mac

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

I am interested in other speakers aswell, for instance the Dynaudio Excite X12 and Focus 110, as I already know I like the "house sound".

if you get a chance audition Golden Ear Technology Tritton II speakers. I heard them once at the end of Leben CS-300, a 12Wpc tube amp and I knew then it's time now to upgrade the speakers. and I'm saying this as an owner of Focus 110 at that time. in the end I decided on Magnepans because I wanted to try out something completely different from what you can experience in a typical hi-fi store or friend's system. never regretted the decision.

anyway, the Trittons have a few features that may suit you. they are slim floorstanders so should fit into small spaces. they are semi-active speakers with active bass section (> 200 Hz) therefore you can adjust the level of bass to suit your room easily without any need to revert to equalisation and Jadis will take care of what it does best - mid range and highs, and internal SS class D amps will take care of low end. they may not look too pretty but they are definite;y worth a listen.

 

[CnoEvil]

Alex, I have had a long interesting phone call with Darren of Clearer Audio today to discuss what direction I should take, as I really need more than 4 sockets.

At the end of the conversation, I asked if he did mains blocks with Schuko plugs. He has started doing them, but they aren't on his website yet.

I would strongly recommend you give him a ring (0044 1702 543 981), as he is a real gentleman to talk to, and only wants to get the right solution for a given situation. He would build you a block to your spec (ie. no. of sockets, copper / silver wiring etc) and let you try it for 60 days (you initially have to pay for it, but get a refund if returned).

So far, of all the blocks I've looked at, it ticks the most boxes:

OCC 6N 2.47mm copper *; Star wired / Star earthed; passive surge protection that doesn't effect performance; EMI / RFI rejection; no active circuitry; different wiring and socket options; option of Furutech plugs.

*The Atlas is 2mm OFC copper which is less pure (don't know how much difference it makes).

 

[acalex]

Alex, I have had a long interesting phone call with Darren of Clearer Audio today to discuss what direction I should take, as I really need more than 4 sockets.

At the end of the conversation, I asked if he did mains blocks with Schuko plugs. He has started doing them, but they aren't on his website yet.

I would strongly recommend you give him a ring (0044 1702 543 981), as he is a real gentleman to talk to, and only wants to get the right solution for a given situation. He would build you a block to your spec (ie. no. of sockets, copper / silver wiring etc) and let you try it for 60 days (you initially have to pay for it, but get a refund if returned).

So far, of all the blocks I've looked at, it ticks the most boxes:

OCC 6N 2.47mm copper *; Star wired / Star earthed; passive surge protection that doesn't effect performance; EMI / RFI rejection; no active circuitry; different wiring and socket options; option of Furutech plugs.

*The Atlas is 2mm OFC copper which is less pure (don't know how much difference it makes).

Interesting, are you getting one of them? I would be amazing to have one with 6 sockets, silver wired with Furutech plugs 🙂

I will give him a ring, thanks a lot!

 

[CnoEvil]

Interesting, are you getting one of them? I would be amazing to have one with 6 sockets, silver wired with Furutech plugs 🙂

I will give him a ring, thanks a lot!

I'm seriously looking at this one: http://www.cleareraudio.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=49

I know he can do a very expensive OCC Silver Optimus wired one with Furutech sockets for the UK, but you will need to discuss what he can do with Schuko plugs. He seems to be able to do almost anything, but going way off standard may be harder to return (but probably not impossible, knowing Darren).

If you speak to him, let me know how it goes.

 

[CnoEvil]

Right, I have a few initial thoughts on the Atlas mains block -

It certainly has an effect. There is more breathiness to the Sax, more snap to the drums and generally more detail jumping out from a quieter background...........but for me (in my system), I find it makes the whole thing a little too bright and forward, which is very noticeable when the volume is turned up.

For some, this would be more transparant, but to me it makes the music less enjoyable.......the search continues for something that will protect my kit but retain what I like about the way it sounds.

 

[acalex]

Right, I have a few initial thoughts on the Atlas mains block -

It certainly has an effect. There is more breathiness to the Sax, more snap to the drums and generally more detail jumping out from a quieter background...........but for me (in my system), I find it makes the whole thing a little too bright and forward, which is very noticeable when the volume is turned up.

For some, this would be more transparant, but to me it makes the music less enjoyable.......the search continues for something that will protect my kit but retain what I like about the way it sounds.

Interesting, you are talking here about the Atlas power strip, right?

 

[CnoEvil]

Interesting, you are talking here about the Atlas power strip, right?

Yes it's the Atlas.

It could easily be argued that it brought an improvement, as clarity was improved (if that was the ultimate goal)..........this hobby is so subjective and system dependant, that my conclusions can't really be applied to a different situation.

 

[BigColz]

Right, I have a few initial thoughts on the Atlas mains block -

It certainly has an effect. There is more breathiness to the Sax, more snap to the drums and generally more detail jumping out from a quieter background...........but for me (in my system), I find it makes the whole thing a little too bright and forward, which is very noticeable when the volume is turned up.

For some, this would be more transparant, but to me it makes the music less enjoyable.......the search continues for something that will protect my kit but retain what I like about the way it sounds.

That's interesting.. I'd expect it to increase dynamics and bass texture and depth (complete assumtion of course).. Thats certainly not the effect i'd be looking for, although I know it will effect different electronics differently.. Are you planning on getting a clearer audio to demo next?

 

[CnoEvil]

That's interesting.. I'd expect it to increase dynamics and bass texture and depth (complete assumtion of course).. Thats certainly not the effect i'd be looking for, although I know it will effect different electronics differently.. Are you planning on getting a clearer audio to demo next?

Please don't let my perseptions put you off trying one. It is quite possible that you would take a different view.....I am hyper-sensitive to any "forwardness". It (imo) did subtley bring improvements in the areas you are taliking about.

FWIW. I think it brings an improvement to AV, where the presentation gives more excitement.

 

[Singslinger]

CnoEvil - have you tried the mains conditioning gear from PS Audio? I use the P-10, which I find has made a big difference in my system. There's also the smaller P-5 if you only need 5 inputs.

 

[acalex]

CnoEvil - have you tried the mains conditioning gear from PS Audio? I use the P-10, which I find has made a big difference in my system. There's also the smaller P-5 if you only need 5 inputs.

I tried a few days ago the P3 from PS-Audio and despite noticing some improvements I wasn't convince the price of these unit is worth it.

To be fair, I didn't have an extensive listening as I was in the middle of some works...it was just a quick and dirty analysis.

 

[BigColz]

That's interesting.. I'd expect it to increase dynamics and bass texture and depth (complete assumtion of course).. Thats certainly not the effect i'd be looking for, although I know it will effect different electronics differently.. Are you planning on getting a clearer audio to demo next?

Please don't let my perseptions put you off trying one. It is quite possible that you would take a different view.....I am hyper-sensitive to any "forwardness". It (imo) did subtley bring improvements in the areas you are taliking about.

FWIW. I think it brings an improvement to AV, where the presentation gives more excitement.

Yeah you haven't put me off at all and I will one day but if the differences are that slight there's no point in me doing it until I have solved all the other niggles I have and in a room with (much) better acoustics so I can make a fair comparison. I'm going to try link my speaker posts (and on the response D Two's) with some cambridge pure copper cable off my living room hifi see if that makes a difference compared to the standard jumpers. Annoys me the TQ black speaker links are £85???!!!! I only payed £15 for 4 meters of the stuff!!!!!!!! The blue are £29 + best offer and Epic are £40.. grrrr.. May have to buy blue's and try different combos ie blue links from bass to treble and visa versa.. So many combos to try in the next week :rockout: :clap:

 

[CnoEvil]

Yeah you haven't put me off at all and I will one day but if the differences are that slight there's no point in me doing it until I have solved all the other niggles I have and in a room with (much) better acoustics so I can make a fair comparison. I'm going to try link my speaker posts (and on the response D Two's) with some cambridge pure copper cable off my living room hifi see if that makes a difference compared to the standard jumpers. Annoys me the TQ black speaker links are £85???!!!! I only payed £15 for 4 meters of the stuff!!!!!!!! The blue are £29 + best offer and Epic are £40.. grrrr.. May have to buy blue's and try different combos ie blue links from bass to treble and visa versa.. So many combos to try in the next week :rockout: :clap:

I am going to leave it in situ for a week and then reassess.....I do like what it does for AV.

 

[CnoEvil]

CnoEvil - have you tried the mains conditioning gear from PS Audio? I use the P-10, which I find has made a big difference in my system. There's also the smaller P-5 if you only need 5 inputs.

Sorry, I have never had conditioning in my system. I once borrowed an Isol8 power re generator, but didn't like it's effect, which was to make the sound cleaner, but more analytical.

ATM I am looking at really well made mains blocks, and possibly a decent switch-less wall socket. I always have reservations about putting conditioning on high current amps.....good leads and sockets may be the way to go if there isn't a really dirty mains problem. It's all about which compromise is the lesser of two evils.

 

[CnoEvil]

I have done a bit more messing about and experimentation today.

This mains lark is definitely unpredictable:

- My amp sounds better plugged into the wall.

- With its own lead, the DS sounds better into the wall.

- Up to now, I have heard no difference with a P/C on the DS, but through the mains block, there is a worthwhile and noticeable difference for the better....in fact it sounds better than with its own lead plugged directly into the wall.

- i like the clarity and dynamics it brings to AV.

So when it comes to all this, IMO it is better to try all possible options and take nothing for granted.

FWIW. Mrs. Cno is able to tell whether I am using the Atlas block or not as soon as she walks into the room (with the volume is turned up). She finds it way too forward. Without knowing, she has been right 100% of the time.

 

[BigColz]

I have done a bit more messing about and experimentation today.

This mains lark is definitely unpredictable:

- My amp sounds better plugged into the wall.

- With its own lead, the DS sounds better into the wall.

- Up to now, I have heard no difference with a P/C on the DS, but through the mains block, there is a worthwhile and noticeable difference for the better....in fact it sounds better than with its own lead plugged directly into the wall.

- i like the clarity and dynamics it brings to AV.

So when it comes to all this, IMO it is better to try all possible options and take nothing for granted.

FWIW. Mrs. Cno is able to tell whether I am using the Atlas block or not as soon as she walks into the room (with the volume is turned up). She finds it way too forward. Without knowing, she has been right 100% of the time.

Thats interesting.. Maybe the fact your amp draws so much current it is affected so much by the power block..

 

[acalex]

I have done a bit more messing about and experimentation today.

This mains lark is definitely unpredictable:

- My amp sounds better plugged into the wall.

- With its own lead, the DS sounds better into the wall.

- Up to now, I have heard no difference with a P/C on the DS, but through the mains block, there is a worthwhile and noticeable difference for the better....in fact it sounds better than with its own lead plugged directly into the wall.

- i like the clarity and dynamics it brings to AV.

So when it comes to all this, IMO it is better to try all possible options and take nothing for granted.

FWIW. Mrs. Cno is able to tell whether I am using the Atlas block or not as soon as she walks into the room (with the volume is turned up). She finds it way too forward. Without knowing, she has been right 100% of the time.

Ahaha, my gf also can hear sometimes things I can't even hear myself...and she is also 100% right all the times without ever knowing what has been changed/added :cheers:

 

[CnoEvil]

Thats interesting.. Maybe the fact your amp draws so much current it is affected so much by the power block..

There shouldn't be any circuitry in the block to restrict the current....but the sound is changed.