Need help finding affordable 92-93db speakers

[sthomas048]

Hello there,

I am pretty much pulling out my hair in frustration trying to find the right speakers. Im looking to buy a low powered vavle amp - probably between 3-12w and so I need to find suitably powered speakers. Am I not looking hard enough ? My budget is low, this might be the problem. I only have £200-300 max to spend. I need a bookshelf speaker at around 92-93db. Does anyone have any ideas to help me here ?

Thanks.

Stephen

 

[BigH]

Yes that maybe difficult as most bookshelf ones tend to be 84-90 at 8 Ohms. Floorstanders tend to be more sensitive. There are a few FS around for that price but I guess they are too large?

 

[hoopsontoast]

Whats more important is the impedance load of the speakers, rather than senstivity.

You will struggle to find small speakers with such high senstivity as its just the laws of physics.

In terms of speakers that could suit, something like the Rega R1 or RS1 could be a good choice, small and relatively senstive but critically easy to drive.

What valve amp are you planning on using and any particular reason you want one with such small speakers?

 

[manicm]

hoopsontoast - when you're at under 20w then I'd say both sensitivity and impedance are equally important. BTW Klipsch make high sensitivity speakers i.e. >90db at 8ohms. But how good they sound may be a matter of taste...

 

[hoopsontoast]

hoopsontoast - when you're at under 20w then I'd say both sensitivity and impedance are equally important. BTW Klipsch make high sensitivity speakers i.e. >90db at 8ohms. But how good they sound may be a matter of taste...

I would beg to differ, IME.

A lot of the cheaper Klipsch speakers for example, have high advertised sensitivity, but actually quite demanding impendance/phase curves that might not be suitable.

 

[sthomas048]

Well, im restricted by my budget and Ive found that all the valve amps at my price range tend to be the lower powered sort. Maybe it costs less to produce low powered valve amps ? Not sure. As for why bookshelf speakers, its due to my small room size. I figured I dont need to pay more for a traditional EL34 style 50w valve amp due to the small listening space. I appreciate your advice, I will take a lookee at the Rega speakers.

 

[hoopsontoast]

Well, im restricted by my budget and Ive found that all the valve amps at my price range tend to be the lower powered sort. Maybe it costs less to produce low powered valve amps ? Not sure. As for why bookshelf speakers, its due to my small room size. I figured I dont need to pay more for a traditional EL34 style 50w valve amp due to the small listening space. I appreciate your advice, I will take a lookee at the Rega speakers.

Its more that it costs more to produce a decent higher power valve amplifier. Decent Power and Output transformers are expensive.

Something like the Puresound A10 sounds like a good option for you, they can be had around £300 or a little less S/H.

You have the Icon Audio MP3 and various Stereo models (20 PP goes quite cheap IIRC).

In a small room, senstivity is not really that important. FWIW, I have used a 2-3wpc SET to good effect with 80dB speakers in a normal living room, and those same speakers with various amps, including the above Puresound and an 18w Audion amp.

 

[BigH]

You may want to consider the Monitor Audio Bronze BX2 they are rated at 90db @ 8Ohms and cost around £250

 

[sthomas048]

In a small room, senstivity is not really that important. FWIW, I have used a 2-3wpc SET to good effect with 80dB speakers in a normal living room, and those same speakers with various amps, including the above Puresound and an 18w Audion amp.

Well, I think the best plan then is to buy an amp and see how it performs with my current speakers. Take it from there. Thank you.

 

[sthomas048]

Just to confirm, Im not going to damage a low power 3w amp with 88db speakers ? My room is small only 12ft sqaure-ish. Thanks to everyone who has replied.

 

[hoopsontoast]

Just to confirm, Im not going to damage a low power 3w amp with 88db speakers ? My room is small only 12ft sqaure-ish. Thanks to everyone who has replied.

It depends, if you plan on having a party then you might get the amp to clip hard and cause damage, but under normal listening, it should be OK.

What 3wpc amp are you looking at?

 

[lindsayt]

You might find a pair of 2nd hand Klipsch Heresys at or close to your budget. They have a lovely detailed, wide open dynamic midrange and treble, but in common with many speakers of that size, they are very lean in the bass. They are highly efficient and would play very loud with 1 watt.

 

[sthomas048]

It depends, if you plan on having a party then you might get the amp to clip hard and cause damage, but under normal listening, it should be OK.

What 3wpc amp are you looking at?

No, Im a very sensible listener ! On my current amp the dial never goes above 9 o'clock. Im looking at the Miniwatt N3, yes its very cheap but ideal for my first valve amp and has had many good reviews.

 

[sthomas048]

You might find a pair of 2nd hand Klipsch Heresys at or close to your budget. They have a lovely detailed, wide open dynamic midrange and treble, but in common with many speakers of that size, they are very lean in the bass. They are highly efficient and would play very loud with 1 watt.

I would love a pair of Heresys ! Heard nothing but good about them. Dont suppose there's any other candidates you could suggest ? Looking for info online is proving impossible. Floorstanders will give me what I want I know, but space is limited unfortunately.

 

[hoopsontoast]

I might suggest looking for a S/H Icon Audio MP3 or Stereo 20 (and Puresound A10) over the Miniwatt, it looks OK but a small valve amp with tiny power/output transformers is never going to be brilliant.

http://www.tonepublications.com/review/miniwatts-latest-the-n3/

I had a pair of similarly cute Antique Sound Labs Monoblocks, they were mediocre at best, would be fine for a desktop system but they were no match for a Decware Zen for example.

The Miniwatt might be good, but I think you can do a lot better.

 

[mongoose1234]

Please pardon my ignorance as I've never heard a valve amp, but what are the advantages and would a valve amp at 3w played near its limits sound better than an ss amp which would be unstressed at that output level?

Please don't get me wrong I'm just interested, not suggesting you should buy a ss amp.

Good luck in your search!!

 

[hoopsontoast]

Please pardon my ignorance as I've never heard a valve amp, but what are the advantages and would a valve amp at 3w played near its limits sound better than an ss amp which would be unstressed at that output level?

Please don't get me wrong I'm just interested, not suggesting you should buy a ss amp.

Good luck in your search!!

I cant actually think of any distinct advantages that a Valve Amplifier over a Solid State Amplifier.

If you go by specifications, they looks worse on paper in just about every area.They are a lot less efficient, usually give off quite a lot of heat, tend to be large and heavy for a given power output, need carefull matching with the output transformers and speakers, valve tubes have a limited life (and 'can' be expensive), tend to have high measured distortion (mainly 2nd order harmonics) etc etc...

BUT IME they can just plain sound, really good.

You cant really compare without trying with a particular pair of speakers. Two EL84 amplifiers foe example may sound similar, and both be SE or SET and ~3wpc but wont sound the same IME.

Power output and distortion are all down to the valve used, the output/design type (Triode, Pentode, Ultralinear, Push Pull etc) and if you have negative feedback.

IME, you tend to get what you pay for in valve amplfiers. Saying that, the Decware for example is the best one I have had, or possibly heard and thats relatively cheap, in the grand scale of things.

 

[lindsayt]

You might find a pair of 2nd hand Klipsch Heresys at or close to your budget. They have a lovely detailed, wide open dynamic midrange and treble, but in common with many speakers of that size, they are very lean in the bass. They are highly efficient and would play very loud with 1 watt.

I would love a pair of Heresys ! Heard nothing but good about them. Dont suppose there's any other candidates you could suggest ? Looking for info online is proving impossible. Floorstanders will give me what I want I know, but space is limited unfortunately.

I'm struggling to think of any other bookshelf sized speakers that would work really well with low powered valve amps. Increase the size of the speakers a lot and the budget up to £500 or even to £1500 and that opens up loads of options for great sounding speakers that work well with a couple of watts.

The last 2 amplifier bake-offs that I've attended have been won by SET valve amps. One based on 300b valves and one on 211. Neither of them were budget amps. Amongst valve afficionados the general advice is that sound quality goes up as power levels go down - as long as you can get away with the lower power. 2 watt 45 based amps supposedly sounding better than 4 watt 2a3's followed by 8 watt 300b's followed by 16 watt 211's. I would love to try a well engineered 45 based amp some day.

At the budget end I think that a Chinese 2a3 SET amp might be worth trying - especially if you found one in good nick 2nd hand.

 

[sthomas048]

Well I think I have found one suitable speaker, seems ideal and what Im looking for - Klipsch RB-61 II Reference. Good value and has a handful of good reviews. Its a starting point at least. 97db sensitivity too, although some say its closer to 93-94db. So whichever valve amp I end up with these speakers should work well. Why valves you say ? Well Im not a fan of SS sound, I more into musicality over accuracy. I love my turntable and my vinyl collection. This search for valves has been ongoing for a long time and I intend to have fun taking my first steps !

 

[hoopsontoast]

Those Klipsch speaker are around 90dB at best, so I would not just go for them on their advertised senstivity.

http://www.hometheater.com/content/klipsch-reference-rb-61-ii-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures

I have not heard them so they could be excellent.

As you are mainly using them for lower volume levels, I really dont think senstivity is a problem, its more the impedance/phase plot which will be more important especially with cheaper valve amplifiers.

 

[sthomas048]

Here are some tech details on my current B&W speakers -

Technical Details[/b]
Power Handling 25W –100W into 8 ohms
Frequency Reponse 70Hz – 20kHz ± 3dB on reference axis
Impedance 8 ohms (minimum 4.2 ohms)
Sensitivity 88dB spl(2.83V 1m)

 

[manicm]

Those Klipsch speaker are around 90dB at best, so I would not just go for them on their advertised senstivity.

http://www.hometheater.com/content/klipsch-reference-rb-61-ii-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures

I have not heard them so they could be excellent.

As you are mainly using them for lower volume levels, I really dont think senstivity is a problem, its more the impedance/phase plot which will be more important especially with cheaper valve amplifiers.

I've read a few reviews of them, one of them here at WHF, and they seem to suggest they do have above average sensitivities.

 

[manicm]

Here are some tech details on my current B&W speakers -

Technical Details[/b]
Power Handling 25W –100W into 8 ohms
Frequency Reponse 70Hz – 20kHz ± 3dB on reference axis
Impedance 8 ohms (minimum 4.2 ohms)
Sensitivity 88dB spl(2.83V 1m)

sthomas, other speakers you may want to look at are the Monitor Audio BX2 - they went quite loud with my 25w ss amp but definitely prefer higher volumes, and the Rega RS1.

And again, don't overlook some Klipsch speakers.

 

[sthomas048]

Regarding the Monitor Audio BX2s, I am interested in these speakers. It seems they might balance well with the valve sound in that the speaker's possible sharp edges are tamed by tubes ?

 

[manicm]

sthomas - I think the warmer electronics would definitely sit well with the BX2s! BTW I did not find them sharp at all, just very clear and with very good, tight bass. I also found them very flexible - I had mine <20cm from the rear wall on bedside pedestals! I'll bet they'll sound even better atop proper stands.

I just found them a bit lacking in 'musicality' or what David@FrankHarvey would more accurately and dismissively term euphonism :rofl: , but upon changing sources it seemed to confirm to me they do indeed work better.

I can also confirm they sound much better when you're sitting up rather than lying down!!! :rofl: I blame their tweeter grill for that.