KEF LS50 disappointment :(

[Covenanter]

1000th post

Blast you beat me to it!

However let me summarise what we have learnt from this thread (apart from the informative posts by our friend from Kef).

Chris

 

[shkumar4963]

I vote for LS50's over CM1's.

?

It's not even close. CM1's are too sleep inducingly boring for me to get any pleasure from listening to them.

I had auditioned several speakers and found LS50 the best. Here are the rest if the speakers.

Cm1: a bit boomy. Seems like the box sings. Sorry Vlad. I know you love them.

CM5: Much better than CM1 and not boomy.

LS50: Similar to CM5 but a little more livlier. A bit more clearer and a bit more revealing.

Twenty 21: a little better than LS50 but twice as expensive especially with PMC stands. More natural and effortless.

 

[shkumar4963]

I also auditione 685s2 for a short while. I thought they were not in the same league. The sound was just too muddy.

 

[Vladimir]

The Blutack was to keep your speakers planted well on the stands. As for the sibilance, are the new stands taller than the old ones?

 

[shkumar4963]

Here is my take.

I feel that LS50 are as good a speaker as any in their price bracket. I personally feel that they are the best IN THAT PRICE RANGE.

Even people who don't like them will agree that when they are compared with similarly priced speakers they hold on their own.

So why so many posts...

I think it is because they were voted two years on a row as most recommended speakers in Class A category with limited low end. This class of speakers are supposed to be the best money can buy at any price in all other ways exempt for the low end. It seems no other £800 speaker has ever been placed in this category in the past. Stereophile has tested thousands of speakers in the last several years and has chosen LS50 as the only £800 speaker to be ever placed in Class A category and that too 2 years in a row ( Please correct me if I am wrong)

This has raised people's expectations too much and when the actual performance does not meet those high expectations, they complain.

Also, some feel that while these speakers are good and best for their price, Stereophile has tried to do a marketing job on us and we resent that.

 

[shkumar4963]

The Blutack was to keep your speakers planted well on the stands. As for the sibilance, are the new stands taller than the old ones?

Yes the old stands were shorter by about 12 inch.

On further analysis I see that the sibilance is only pronounced in one song ( so far that I have tested) and not in others. So I decided to live with it.

But now I am curious about sibilance. Where it comes from and why it is in some songs and that in others. I will try to read more about it.

 

[Vladimir]

If I was in the US I would not choose a KEF LS50 over a Magnepan for £800.

 

[Electro]

The Blutack was to keep your speakers planted well on the stands. As for the sibilance, are the new stands taller than the old ones?

Yes the old stands were shorter by about 12 inch.

On further analysis I see that the sibilance is only pronounced in one song ( so far that I have tested) and not in others. So I decided to live with it.

But now I am curious about sibilance. Where it comes from and why it is in some songs and that in others. I will try to read more about it.

I don't think it helps that so many people insist on putting the microphone right in their mouths when they are singing *biggrin*

 

[Vladimir]

If this height has the tweeter on axis with your ears, your are hearing the speakers correctly. If they show sibilance in certain records, that's something you will have to live with.

 

[BigH]

I would have LS50s over CM1s which have bass issues also certainly not neutral.

 

[Vladimir]

How about CM5? They cost the same as the LS50.

 

[shkumar4963]

If I was in the US I would not choose a KEF LS50 over a Magnepan for £800.

Magnepan are two big and not in consideration in this. Let's stay with similar size and similar price.

 

[shkumar4963]

It seems that my set up the following makes little or no difference in the overall sound quality of the system. Or i am too old to notice

Cables, speaker position beyond few inches from the back wall, height of the speakers, position of the listener, spikes vs. Flat feet in speaker stands, spikes vs. Rubber pads vs blu tack between speakers and stands, proper stands vs. Coffee side tables as stands, etc.

Here is what does make a big difference that us clearly observable :

Music recording quality
speaker quality (big difference)
Pre amp settings like tone control, EQ and dsp settings etc

Not tested: low voltage interconnects, different amps, different pre amps.

Welcome other's observations.

 

[Vladimir]

If I was in the US I would not choose a KEF LS50 over a Magnepan for £800.

Magnepan are two big and not in consideration in this. Let's stay with similar size and similar price.

Just saying that if space is no issue, much better can be had for the same price. The Maggies will blow away the LS50 for sonic details, imaging, transient response... everything.

Why are we considering the CM1 btw? The CM5 is the same price as LS50 and both with aprox. 6.5L cabinets, +/-0.2L.

 

[Vladimir]

It seems that my set up the following makes little or no difference in the overall sound quality of the system. Or i am too old to notice

Here is what does make a big difference that us clearly observable :

Music recording quality speaker quality (big difference) Pre amp settings like tone control, EQ and dsp settings etc

Not tested: low voltage interconnects, different amps, different pre amps.

Welcome other's observations.

Same here. Maybe this is why people move to horns, electrostats, fullrange drivers and planars. They are utterly bored with conventional loudspeaker design and how much money it costs to get little improvements. Seing the forest and not the trees gives that eureka moment when new neuron connections in your brain are created.

 

[BigH]

How about CM5? They cost the same as the LS50.

I don't know the CM5s, never heard them. But if they are similar to CM1s no thanks.

 

[BigH]

If I was in the US I would not choose a KEF LS50 over a Magnepan for £800.

Magnepan are two big and not in consideration in this. Let's stay with similar size and similar price.

Just saying that if space is no issue, much better can be had for the same price. The Maggies will blow away the LS50 for sonic details, imaging, transient response... everything.

Why are we considering the CM1 btw? The CM5 is the same price as LS50 and both with aprox. 6.5L cabinets, +/-0.2L.

Well from what I have heard, Maggies need a fairly large room and the right shape? Also need powerful amp. Maggies in USA are good option as LS50s cost $1500 there.

 

[Vladimir]

Well from what I have heard, Maggies need a fairly large room and the right shape? Also need powerful amp. Maggies in USA are good option as LS50s cost $1500 there.

Yup, they really shine with adequate room and powerful amps.

 

[Vladimir]

How about CM5? They cost the same as the LS50.

I don't know the CM5s, never heard them. But if they are similar to CM1s no thanks.

Ah. Good thinking. *wink*

 

[dim_span]

It seems that my set up the following makes little or no difference in the overall sound quality of the system. Or i am too old to notice

Here is what does make a big difference that us clearly observable :

Music recording quality speaker quality (big difference) Pre amp settings like tone control, EQ and dsp settings etc

Not tested: low voltage interconnects, different amps, different pre amps.

Welcome other's observations.

Same here. Maybe this is why people move to horns, electrostats, fullrange drivers and planars. They are utterly bored with conventional loudspeaker design and how much money it costs to get little improvements. Seing the forest and not the trees gives that eureka moment when new neuron connections in your brain are created.

£120 get you old B&W DM2 transmission speakers

£250-300 gets you IMF TLS80 transmission speakers

£500-£650 gets you Quad electrostatics

£800 gets you Yamaha NS1000M

so many bargains when it comes to older speakers ...

 

[Esra]

If I was in the US I would not choose a KEF LS50 over a Magnepan for £800.

Agree,imo. one of the next best speakers to better LS50 .Unfortunately they have even less bass (depends on model and amplification) in real life and it is much more difficult to combine them with a really fast subwoofer.Also they need a much stronger amp (current) as for LS50 to shine.But put things together right these are spectacular.Imo. MG3.7 are better than Ls50 if one can live with a narrow sweetspot,doesn´t give anything about it looks and has the space to place them right;the smaller ones are not really an upgrade imo..Anyway 3.7 are much more expensive than ls50 in europe,about 8x Ls50.Speaks for LS50, especially if you consider them to use in HT and/or have limited space ;-)

 

[Vladimir]

Not that narrow. 2 feet is plenty, just don't move your head. *preved*

 

[shkumar4963]

It seems that my set up the following makes little or no difference in the overall sound quality of the system. Or i am too old to notice

Here is what does make a big difference that us clearly observable :

Music recording quality speaker quality (big difference) Pre amp settings like tone control, EQ and dsp settings etc

Not tested: low voltage interconnects, different amps, different pre amps.

Welcome other's observations.

Same here. Maybe this is why people move to horns, electrostats, fullrange drivers and planars. They are utterly bored with conventional loudspeaker design and how much money it costs to get little improvements. Seing the forest and not the trees gives that eureka moment when new neuron connections in your brain are created.

£120 get you old B&W DM2 transmission speakers

£250-300 gets you IMF TLS80 transmission speakers

£500-£650 gets you Quad electrostatics

£800 gets you Yamaha NS1000M?

so many bargains when it comes to older speakers ... 

Yep. I thought about getting it used. But then you take the risk of buying it without audition using eBay.

And look what happened when I auditioned more than 5 speakers. If I had not, I would have always thought I made a mistake in choosing speakers.

 

[hg]

And look what happened when I auditioned more than 5 speakers. If I had not, I would have always thought I made a mistake in choosing speakers.

You are confident these are the best speakers for you even though others have said they prefer different speakers and as a desk speaker/small monitor/nearfield monitor they lack the output to function as main speakers in a room at reference level. Are you able to identify the postive aspects that for you outweigh these negative aspects?

 

[Frank Harvey]

For genuine comparisons to other speakers with a similar cabinet and driver size, the LS50s should be compared to the Sonus Faber Toy, B&W PM1, CM1 S2, and 686 S2, Q Acoustics Concept 20, ProAc D1, KEF R100 and Q100, PMC DB1 Gold, Monitor Audio Silver 1 and Gold GX50, and the ATC SCM7.