KEF LS50 disappointment :(

[MarkJones83]

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum (and to hifi) and wondered if someone can help me out....

I recently took a chance and bought a set of KEF LS50's on a friends recommendation and after reading rave reviews (inc What Hifi)

Having wired them up to my amp (Yamaha DSP A3090) and played around with the settings, words cannot express my disappointment

Everyone who listens to them sits there with confused faces and remarks that while the clarity excellent, they lack 'something'.

For me the bass, although there to some extent, sounds clinical and doesnt engage or excite me - everyone who hears them just sighs and says they expected better. A friend told me yesterday he gets more bass in his ford fiesta.

Theres no shortage of power and they go loud, but as you turn them up are so bright that they hurt the ears.

I bought these speakers as a returned item and im wondering if there may be something wrong with them. Some people have suggested it could be my amp, others have said its because the woofers are at the back?

A friend has some KEF Q1's and his speakers sound WAY better than mine. Dynamic punchy bass and crystal clear sound. He's using a vintage stereo amp which i think is a pioneer. His woofers are at the front.

We're both playing music through spotify at the moment and im using my apple tv which is connected to the amp by optical cable. I know the quality will be impaired by that to some extent but the friend with the Q1's does a similar thing and his sound is crushingly better than mine

If anyone has any ideas please let me know,

Mark Jones

 

[alchemist 1]

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum (and to hifi) and wondered if someone can help me out....

I recently took a chance and bought a set of KEF LS50's on a friends recommendation and after reading rave reviews (inc What Hifi)

Having wired them up to my amp (Yamaha DSP A3090) and played around with the settings, words cannot express my disappointment

Everyone who listens to them sits there with confused faces and remarks that while the clarity excellent, they lack 'something'.

For me the bass, although there to some extent, sounds clinical and doesnt engage or excite me - everyone who hears them just sighs and says they expected better. A friend told me yesterday he gets more bass in his ford fiesta.

Theres no shortage of power and they go loud, but as you turn them up are so bright that they hurt the ears.

I bought these speakers as a returned item and im wondering if there may be something wrong with them. Some people have suggested it could be my amp, others have said its because the woofers are at the back?

A friend has some KEF Q1's and his speakers sound WAY better than mine. Dynamic punchy bass and crystal clear sound. He's using a vintage stereo amp which i think is a pioneer. His woofers are at the front.

We're both playing music through spotify at the moment and im using my apple tv which is connected to the amp by optical cable. I know the quality will be impaired by that to some extent but the friend with the Q1's does a similar thing and his sound is crushingly better than mine

If anyone has any ideas please let me know,

Mark Jones

Have you checked your speaker cables are connected correctly ?

 

[npoguy]

IMHO, something is wrong with the speakers or your setup. I own them paired with Parasound and absolutely love the sound. Certainly, the bass isn't what you would get with towers, but I've been very pleased. In fact, I sold a set of Salk Songtowers (extremely well regarded in the States)for the LS50's and haven't had a moment of regret. I would try a few things including room placement (give them plenty of room away from the wall) and the rear bungs before giving up.

 

[KidKomet]

Are they backed against a wall? Placement could be an issue.

 

[BigH]

What do you mean by "the woofers are at the back"?

 

[davedotco]

It is just possible that the speakers are faulty, not likely but possible. Generally if there is a problem it is pretty obvious and different speaker to speaker. if they both sound the same (try switching then) and there is nothing obvious wrong then they are probably fine.

Reading between the lines I think we simply have a system that has been poorly selected both in terms of system matching and the OP's actual needs, happens all the time.

The OP is badly in need of help from a compedent dealer

 

[MarkJones83]

Had a couple of friends who are into hifi go over the wiring and setup for me, all seems to be as it should be.

Placement is an issue for me because the room is relatively small, so yes they are backed into corners.

The manual says to put bungs in the back (guessing these ports arent called 'woofers' then lol but when i put the bungs in, the bass lack gets even worse.

I've taken a picture of the room layout but cant see a way of attaching it on here - how would i do that?

Mark

 

[MakkaPakka]

You need to host the picture on somewhere like flickr or photobucket then use the forum to link to it.

Your experience would tend to add weight to comments in the WHF review:

http://www.whathifi.com/review/kef-ls50

 

[MakkaPakka]

You need to host the picture on somewhere like flickr or photobucket then use the forum to link to it.

Your experience would tend to add weight to comments in the WHF review:

http://www.whathifi.com/review/kef-ls50

 

[matt49]

What do you mean by "the woofers are at the back"?

What he means is that they're rear-ported.

Evidently these speakers are capable of sounding great, so something's wrong, as others have suggested, whether the speaker placement or the system synergy or the connection to the amp or some combination of the above.

To the OP: could you take the speakers round to your friends house and try them in his system? Or borrow a different amp from a local dealer?

 

[BigH]

The manual says to put bungs in the back (guessing these ports arent called 'woofers' then lol but when i put the bungs in, the bass lack gets even worse. I've taken a picture of the room layout but cant see a way of attaching it on here - how would i do that? Mark

The woofer is the driver for the low to mid frequencies as opposed to the tweeter which is the high. You are referring to ports. Bass is pretty average for that size of speaker/driver, don't bung up the ports and move a foot or so away from walls. What sort of room furnishing do you have, carpets, bare laminate floor? Curtains and soft sofas? It could be your amp. I don't know that one.

 

[MarkJones83]

What do you mean by "the woofers are at the back"?

To the OP: could you take the speakers round to your friends house and try them in his system? Or borrow a different amp from a local dealer?

Thats a good idea, will ask him if we can give that a try.

Would a local dealer lend an amp??

 

[matt49]

Would a local dealer lend an amp??

The bigger chains (Richers, Superfi) don't lend kit out. Independent dealers generally do. No harm in getting on the phone and asking. If you tell the forum where you are, people might suggest good dealers in your area.

 

[MarkJones83]

What sort of room furnishing do you have, carpets, bare laminate floor? Curtains and soft sofas? It could be your amp. I don't know that one.

Its a bedroom. Floor is laminate and at the moment there are no curtains.

We tried them out at a friends house in his small room though (he has carpets, curtains and a newish Yamaha amp) - same problem.

Bass and sound doesnt fill the room.

A friend yesterday said its like the bass doesnt move the air around it.

To test we played a rousing orchestral sound track of his choice and turned it up loud (Halo original sound track - truth and reconciliation) It was wonderfully clear but the bass doesnt didnt stir or move the emotions. We just sat there with blank faces.

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

What cables do you have?

Are they vintage as well? Those thin wires black and grey...?

 

[davedotco]

What sort of room furnishing do you have, carpets, bare laminate floor? Curtains and soft sofas? It could be your amp. I don't know that one.

Its a bedroom. Floor is laminate and at the moment there are no curtains.

We tried them out at a friends house in his small room though (he has carpets, curtains and a newish Yamaha amp) - same problem.

Bass and sound doesnt fill the room.

A friend yesterday said its like the bass doesnt move the air around it.

To test we played a rousing orchestral sound track of his choice and turned it up loud (Halo original sound track - truth and reconciliation) It was wonderfully clear but the bass doesnt didnt stir or move the emotions. We just sat there with blank faces.

Everything that the OP says makes the issue more and more clear, hard reflective surfaces, no curtains, mediocre amplifier and a fondness for a bit of bass pretty much explains everything.

In the words of a very fine scottish band, "rip it up and start again"......... :rockout:

 

[jaxwired]

Here's a video I posted of the pair I owned. This is how good they can sound.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fwnjKWWfg_w

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

What sort of room furnishing do you have, carpets, bare laminate floor? Curtains and soft sofas? It could be your amp. I don't know that one.

Its a bedroom. Floor is laminate and at the moment there are no curtains.

We tried them out at a friends house in his small room though (he has carpets, curtains and a newish Yamaha amp) - same problem.

Bass and sound doesnt fill the room.

A friend yesterday said its like the bass doesnt move the air around it.

To test we played a rousing orchestral sound track of his choice and turned it up loud (Halo original sound track - truth and reconciliation) It was wonderfully clear but the bass doesnt didnt stir or move the emotions. We just sat there with blank faces.

Everything that the OP says makes the issue more and more clear, hard reflective surfaces, no curtains, mediocre amplifier and a fondness for a bit of bass pretty much explains everything.

In the words of a very fine scottish band, "rip it up and start again"......... :rockout:

IMO that is only half the problem, can explain the speakers soud bright but not the lacking of bass, the amp is old, yes, but has 80wpc RMS, still not capable of driving the KEFs to loud controled sound but still can do the job...

Are they on stands?

What the cables like?

are they with bananas plugs?

are the speakers run in yet?

all this factors together can contribute to a poor sound.

And yes a new amp will help a lot!

 

[jaxwired]

I think this is just a case that highlights the difference between what an audiophile thinks is good sound (neutrality, accuracy, clarity, realism) and what the general public thinks is good sound (lots of boom and tizz). When a non hifi nut asks to hear my system I always take a minute first to correct what are the typical misconceptions. No I don't have 12 speakers surrounding me. No I don't consider vibrating the entire house with massively distorted bass a great achievement, no loudness is not the sole measure of a great hifi. The fact the OPs friends prefer a cheap car stereo to the LS50s is a perfect example. The car stereo IS better by their yard stick. Bass is thumpier, goes louder.

 

[lpv]

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum (and to hifi) and wondered if someone can help me out....

I recently took a chance and bought a set of KEF LS50's on a friends recommendation and after reading rave reviews (inc What Hifi)

Having wired them up to my amp (Yamaha DSP A3090) and played around with the settings, words cannot express my disappointment

Everyone who listens to them sits there with confused faces and remarks that while the clarity excellent, they lack 'something'.

For me the bass, although there to some extent, sounds clinical and doesnt engage or excite me - everyone who hears them just sighs and says they expected better. A friend told me yesterday he gets more bass in his ford fiesta.

Theres no shortage of power and they go loud, but as you turn them up are so bright that they hurt the ears.

I bought these speakers as a returned item and im wondering if there may be something wrong with them. Some people have suggested it could be my amp, others have said its because the woofers are at the back?

A friend has some KEF Q1's and his speakers sound WAY better than mine. Dynamic punchy bass and crystal clear sound. He's using a vintage stereo amp which i think is a pioneer. His woofers are at the front.

We're both playing music through spotify at the moment and im using my apple tv which is connected to the amp by optical cable. I know the quality will be impaired by that to some extent but the friend with the Q1's does a similar thing and his sound is crushingly better than mine

If anyone has any ideas please let me know,

Mark Jones

Seems to me you get used to a different sound your previous speakers/ system produced.. same happend to me when I switched to 'hi-fi' world and bought some components without audition.. now I know - system matching/ personal preferences/ room acoustics are paramount..

 

[davedotco]

I think this is just a case that highlights the difference between what an audiophile thinks is good sound (neutrality, accuracy, clarity, realism) and what the general public thinks is good sound (lots of boom and tizz). When a non hifi nut asks to hear my system I always take a minute first to correct what are the typical misconceptions. No I don't have 12 speakers surrounding me. No I don't consider vibrating the entire house with massively distorted bass a great achievement, no loudness is not the sole measure of a great hifi. The fact the OPs friends prefer a cheap car stereo to the LS50s is a perfect example. The car stereo IS better by their yard stick. Bass is thumpier, goes louder.

Very nicely put Jax, a huge problem that is made far, far worse by the current assertion, told to almost everyone who makes an enquiry, that if it 'sounds right, it is right right'.

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

I think this is just a case that highlights the difference between what an audiophile thinks is good sound (neutrality, accuracy, clarity, realism) and what the general public thinks is good sound (lots of boom and tizz). When a non hifi nut asks to hear my system I always take a minute first to correct what are the typical misconceptions. No I don't have 12 speakers surrounding me. No I don't consider vibrating the entire house with massively distorted bass a great achievement, no loudness is not the sole measure of a great hifi. The fact the OPs friends prefer a cheap car stereo to the LS50s is a perfect example. The car stereo IS better by their yard stick. Bass is thumpier, goes louder.

All of that is right, and spot on!

But...

I have a 42 sqm living room, a 50wpc Brio R driving a pair of Dynaudios X12 and the system produce lot of bass, a matter of fact i had to replace the speakers to attenuate the bass, some times I get up the sofa to check if the sub is off.

 

[davedotco]

What sort of room furnishing do you have, carpets, bare laminate floor? Curtains and soft sofas? It could be your amp. I don't know that one.

Its a bedroom. Floor is laminate and at the moment there are no curtains.

We tried them out at a friends house in his small room though (he has carpets, curtains and a newish Yamaha amp) - same problem.

Bass and sound doesnt fill the room.

A friend yesterday said its like the bass doesnt move the air around it.

To test we played a rousing orchestral sound track of his choice and turned it up loud (Halo original sound track - truth and reconciliation) It was wonderfully clear but the bass doesnt didnt stir or move the emotions. We just sat there with blank faces.

Everything that the OP says makes the issue more and more clear, hard reflective surfaces, no curtains, mediocre amplifier and a fondness for a bit of bass pretty much explains everything.

In the words of a very fine scottish band, "rip it up and start again"......... :rockout:

IMO that is only half the problem, can explain the speakers soud bright but not the lacking of bass, the amp is old, yes, but has 80wpc RMS, still not capable of driving the KEFs to loud controled sound but still can do the job...

Are they on stands?

What the cables like?

are they with bananas plugs?

are the speakers run in yet?

all this factors together can contribute to a poor sound.

And yes a new amp will help a lot!

All reasonable points, but they pale into insignificance beside the real problem, which is that the OP has no experience, doesn't know what he is doing and has neither listened nor taken good advice before parting with his money.

We see this all the time on this forum.

 

[jaxwired]

All of that is right, and spot on!

But...

I have a 42 sqm living room, a 50wpc Brio R driving a pair of Dynaudios X12 and the system produce lot of bass, a matter of fact i had to replace the speakers to attenuate the bass, some times I get up the sofa to check if the sub is off.

i assume you me "reposition" and not "replace"???

And I'm not surprised. Dynaudios have very pronounced bass for their size. But unlike most mass market speakers they somehow produce this bass in a very clean accurate way.

And this brings up a good point. No doubt there are speakers the OP would be happier with. Monitor Audio RX2s or Dyn X16s. Those would both probably be better received. No doubt a better amp would help as well.

 

[CnoEvil]

FWIW. I think the reasons have been well covered above - ie. if the LS50s are correctly set up, are on decent (heavy) stands, are connected with well made copper cables (eg. Linn K20), have a decent source and suitable amp, and are in a non reflective room that isn't far too big......they will sound great, provided you are not expecting seismic bass.

IME. A bad sound is, more often than not, down to poor system matching and/or poor set up.