wilro15 said:
I'm delighted that your attention to detail has paid off......and it would appear that you have now witnessed the Jekyell and Hyde nature of these speakers.
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I'm delighted that your attention to detail has paid off......and it would appear that you have now witnessed the Jekyell and Hyde nature of these speakers.
Thanks CnoEvil. I owe something to you and other guys on here for your advice, experience and common sense. I have picked up a lot of useful information in how to get the best out of my system. However I am now eyeing up a more powerful amplifier - upgraditis again!
Merry Christmas!
Merry Christmas!
CnoEvil said:
And a merry Christmas to you too and everyone else here.
I'd be interested to see those measurements - the perfect amplifier has been made at last! What's next - perpetual motion?
Electro said:
That sounds fantastic and it's a real world amp making no physics defying claims to double its power as impedance halves:
8 ohms2 x 250 W4 ohms2 x 380 W2 ohms2 x 625 W1 ohms2 x 1100 W
Probably expensive though.
Anyhow, this has nothing to do with the Kefs so I'll leave it alone now and it is Xmas Eve after all.
pauln said:
Here are a couple for your perusal: http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/index.php/amplifiers/47-transistor/208-musical-fidelity-ams-35i.html?start=3
and (see Lab Test Report): http://www.bm.rs/Musical%20Fidelity/Musical%20Fidelity%20AMS-35i%20-%20Australian%20HiFi.pdf
CnoEvil said:
[Couldn't keep your links because of the fu(k1ng spam filter.]
What it says on that lab test report is this:
"The Musical Fidelity AMS35i didn’t quite
achieve a doubling of power output when the
load impedance was halved (the theoretical
ideal) but it certainly came within a whisker,"
Note that part about theoretical ideal. That amp is a great example of engineering and comes very close to achieving the ideal but it can't do the impossible and to get so close costs a lot of money - more than most people would be willing to pay. Much better surely to get something that produces 200W at 8 Ohms and 300W at 4 Ohms? Plenty of power and much more easily achieved although maybe not in class A.
MUSICRAFT
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manicm said:
Hi manicm
I've had a quick look and I have yet to find a site which shows speakers that have a click to buy option which also highlights the importance (particularly useful for anyone unaware) regarding the quality of amplification required. So far all I've seen is the opportunity taken for add on sales (stands, cables, etc.) and finance.
Btw, as I've said before the DSP-A3090 has perfectly good two channel performance and one which i prefer over some dedicated modern stereo amplifiers.
All the best
Rick @ Musicraft
pauln said:
The other test report from HFW said: "and working into a 4 Ohm load the AMS35i perfectly doubles its power to 64 Watts".
I'm only making the point to show it can be done, rather than everyone should try and achieve it......there are good reasons for going Class A despite its apparent lack of power, though there are also good reasons for avoiding it, which includes cost.
Two more Class A amps that should achieve it are
Accuphase E-600
[based on the EIA RS-490 test standard]
8 Ohms - 30W
4 Ohms - 60W
2 Ohms - 120W
1 Ohm - 150W
Accuphase also make great AB amps, where the E-460 achieves 180W @ 8 Ohms and 260W into 4 Ohms
Luxman L 590-A11
8 Ohms - 30W
4 Ohms - 60W
Frank Harvey
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manicm said:
MUSICRAFT said:
The issue is there are too many variables. You can't just post up on the web page that the speakers require a 50wpc amplifier, as some 50wpc amplifiers won't get the job done properly. Although some dealers do post up the specifications, which can be used as a rough guide.
Many of the products available online are online for a number of reasons. Firstly, it is whether the manufacturer allows a product to be sold online. If they don't, this means potential buyers will have to visit a store to audition/buy, which is a good thing, as suitability with existing equipment will be recommended by the dealer. The downside is that many people get irate when they can't order a product they want on the internet or over the phone.
If they do allow the product to be sold online, then of course, any dealer is going to offer that product on their website - if they don't, someone else will. Nowadays, some dealers can't be giving away potential sales to others. Of course, offering it online, you have to assume the buyer has done their homework and knows what they're buying. The downside is that those that have done their homework may have done so at another dealer, and are buying it from somewhere else for whatever reason. The dealer that loses out may have focused many hours on that customer, as well as time on emails and phone calls.
And let's not pretend here - a click-to-buy website is there to sell as many products as it can.
I feel the blame can be dumped on all three - the manufacturer, the dealer, and the buyer. Manufacturers allow certain products to be bought mail order, despite them being products that needs care in system matching. Dealers (who are offering these products on their website because the manufacturer allows them to) are offering these products with little education to the buyer. And the buyer (who is buying online because the dealer allows them to) isn't doing sufficient homework to ensure it is the right product for them, or are buying based on price.
Personally, I think any product over £500 shouldn't be available to buy online - it should be an in store audition and purchase, where they can get all the info they need from their dealer, face to face. This would also cut down on the amount of users who use one dealer's time and facilities and order online elsewhere because they're doing it a tenner cheaper.
manicm said:
Agreed. This amp is a good 15 years old now, and wasn't that great at music in its day, let alone now. Other than the power difference, a good budget amplifier will probably outshine it regarding quality. A Marantz PM6004/6005 would be a good example.
Native_bon
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The piont most forget is that some people may not like the sound every says sounds good to them?.. Secondly I have upgraded my HIFI system many a time. Only to take it to several shops and finally found out it was room acoustics all along!! Each shop i went to with the equipment sound just fine, but went home set it back up & just sounded horrible...
I got a pair of Bostoin acoustics M340 & now my system has never sounded better! Yes I did the hard work of buying & moving speakers to audition at home. Immedialately I heard the first few seconds I said this is it.
Always audition at home simples!!
I got a pair of Bostoin acoustics M340 & now my system has never sounded better! Yes I did the hard work of buying & moving speakers to audition at home. Immedialately I heard the first few seconds I said this is it.
Always audition at home simples!!
wilro15 said:
+1
Give them a good heavy stand, let's say Dreadnoughts (fill them 3/4 with birdsand or Atabites) or similar good stand. Toe them in a little bit:; less then 10 degrees. Give them some space, and with a decent amp they will sound fantastic. If they sound dull, shrill, not open, harsh etc etc...there's something wrong with the set-up o/w system.
Frank Harvey
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TrevC said:
I agree, but this texture is still generally dealt with by the mid/bass driver, and bass texture is still something that many speakers can't convey. My statement (and previous statements) about good bass texture and capturing minute pitch changes still stands.
alchemist 1
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David@FrankHarvey said:
I feel the LS50's produce a more balanced bass note, without dominating the whole presentation.
So, I am interested in keeping the experiment going at home.
I have been playing the LS50 with the D 3020 over the past few days. Sounds is good, but I want to see if it can be improved with more power.
The amps that I am currently interested in testing (the ones that seems to fit my needs):
1. Bel Canto C5i
2. Simaudio 340i
3. HK 990
4. Rotel RA-1570
All integrated above come with phono / dac, and other than the Bel Canto, they are all rather powerful. 100W+
Form factor the Bel Canto is most interesting for me, but it might not be as powerful as I'd like.
Both the Bel Canto and the SimAudio don't offer tone management (which would be nice). There's also no connector between the pre/power, so it won't be as easy integrating a sub with highpass filter with these two.
The HK990 seems to offer everything that I would possibly need (including auto EQ), if only it wasn't SO big.
Would love to hear some opinion about this. I guess that I can always use speaker level input when connecting a sub, and I can get a way without tone control. However, if audio wise (phono input / dac / power) the HK990 / Rotel, than I guess that I should give them a try first.
I have been playing the LS50 with the D 3020 over the past few days. Sounds is good, but I want to see if it can be improved with more power.
The amps that I am currently interested in testing (the ones that seems to fit my needs):
1. Bel Canto C5i
2. Simaudio 340i
3. HK 990
4. Rotel RA-1570
All integrated above come with phono / dac, and other than the Bel Canto, they are all rather powerful. 100W+
Form factor the Bel Canto is most interesting for me, but it might not be as powerful as I'd like.
Both the Bel Canto and the SimAudio don't offer tone management (which would be nice). There's also no connector between the pre/power, so it won't be as easy integrating a sub with highpass filter with these two.
The HK990 seems to offer everything that I would possibly need (including auto EQ), if only it wasn't SO big.
Would love to hear some opinion about this. I guess that I can always use speaker level input when connecting a sub, and I can get a way without tone control. However, if audio wise (phono input / dac / power) the HK990 / Rotel, than I guess that I should give them a try first.
Frank Harvey
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I can't speak for the rest, but the Rotel 1570 is a cracking amp, and should show the NAD a clean pair of heels with the LS50s. Do let us know how you get on 🙂
@tk1111 have you considered the NAD 356BEE DAC? Its got a oodles of power and a really good built in DAC. In the UK it can be had for £700.
I'm in the market for a DAC-enabled amp for my LS50s right now and the NAD looks like a good bet at the moment.
I'm in the market for a DAC-enabled amp for my LS50s right now and the NAD looks like a good bet at the moment.
wilro15 said:
The problem that I am having with the NAD is that from what I understand you need reach the back of the amp to switch between the DAC and the phono.
I first bought the Arcam FMJ amplifier A19 along with the Kef LS 50 speakers using Chord Chameleon connects. I first auditioned the Kef R300’s with the FMJ. The R300’s are sharp, energetic, very detailed, with a kind of slightly bouncy bass, but a kind of quick, lightweight sound that I suspect may hurt my ears after a few hours playing. This is not a criticism of them because they do sound great, just not for me. These are speakers I imagine I would have bought in my twenties.
After a play through of my favourite music I changed to the Kef’s. Now in my late thirties, these speakers sound so right. The difference in tone, treble and bass was immediate. The bass really stands out for me. It is tight and controlled and keeps it’s pace with the music. Vocals sound sublime and throw themselves outward. The detailing is superb also. Listening to Hey you by Pink Floyd, I could hear the little inflection’s Of David Gilmour’s gravelly voice really come through effectively. Fleetwood Macs Oh Daddy was charged with emotion and the vocals merge well with the acoustic guitar, but strangely feel spaced perfectly within the mix.
I now listen to these speakers for hours on end with no ear ache. They are a well balanced speaker, not too bright, an even, refined sound, without at all sounding boring. A mature energy is what I feel with these when I listen to music across the board.
After three months of use (and I listen to them every day), they continue to surprise me with their lush sound. Listening to Goldfrapp’s Annabel has enourmous appeal. Her voice and the snap of consonants at the beginning and end of her dark, musical sentences are hauntingly beautiful to listen to. And this disc is spinning in a 12 year old Marantz 6000 cd player. Which brings me to the Naim cd5si.
Careful listening between the two shows subtle, but noticeable results. The undertones of Goldfrapp’s Annabel feel more distinct and thrown forward into the mix. The same can be said of the Doors, Riders on the storm. The bass drives the song while the ghostly echoes of Jim Morrison’s lyrics are that little bit more apparent in the Naim. The sound of this player definitely feels bigger and spacious, in an ever so subtle, but noticeable way. To my ears it sounds great with the Arcam FMJ and LS 50’s. These speakers have a direct, focused and open sound, very earthly and warm. It’s as if the two are spiritually connected, like soul mates. I love them. The build themselves is solid and they look and feel expensive, The highly polished black against the copper speakers are a beautiful compliment. The official rose gold colour is another way of saying they are copper coloured, but they had to say rose gold because of the 50th anniversary theme didn’t they. I don’t think their modern look is out of place in an a more traditional setting either.
One thing I have noticed with this system, or with any system for that matter is that a poor recorded album will show its weaknesses with this setup more than it would a cheaper system. I cannot recommend enough.
Beautiful, dynamic, detailed and open sound, Solid and controlled bass, These speakers seem spiritually connected, like soul mates
After a play through of my favourite music I changed to the Kef’s. Now in my late thirties, these speakers sound so right. The difference in tone, treble and bass was immediate. The bass really stands out for me. It is tight and controlled and keeps it’s pace with the music. Vocals sound sublime and throw themselves outward. The detailing is superb also. Listening to Hey you by Pink Floyd, I could hear the little inflection’s Of David Gilmour’s gravelly voice really come through effectively. Fleetwood Macs Oh Daddy was charged with emotion and the vocals merge well with the acoustic guitar, but strangely feel spaced perfectly within the mix.
I now listen to these speakers for hours on end with no ear ache. They are a well balanced speaker, not too bright, an even, refined sound, without at all sounding boring. A mature energy is what I feel with these when I listen to music across the board.
After three months of use (and I listen to them every day), they continue to surprise me with their lush sound. Listening to Goldfrapp’s Annabel has enourmous appeal. Her voice and the snap of consonants at the beginning and end of her dark, musical sentences are hauntingly beautiful to listen to. And this disc is spinning in a 12 year old Marantz 6000 cd player. Which brings me to the Naim cd5si.
Careful listening between the two shows subtle, but noticeable results. The undertones of Goldfrapp’s Annabel feel more distinct and thrown forward into the mix. The same can be said of the Doors, Riders on the storm. The bass drives the song while the ghostly echoes of Jim Morrison’s lyrics are that little bit more apparent in the Naim. The sound of this player definitely feels bigger and spacious, in an ever so subtle, but noticeable way. To my ears it sounds great with the Arcam FMJ and LS 50’s. These speakers have a direct, focused and open sound, very earthly and warm. It’s as if the two are spiritually connected, like soul mates. I love them. The build themselves is solid and they look and feel expensive, The highly polished black against the copper speakers are a beautiful compliment. The official rose gold colour is another way of saying they are copper coloured, but they had to say rose gold because of the 50th anniversary theme didn’t they. I don’t think their modern look is out of place in an a more traditional setting either.
One thing I have noticed with this system, or with any system for that matter is that a poor recorded album will show its weaknesses with this setup more than it would a cheaper system. I cannot recommend enough.
Beautiful, dynamic, detailed and open sound, Solid and controlled bass, These speakers seem spiritually connected, like soul mates
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