Is the resurgence of vinyl LP's a fad?

[nopiano]

If you completely ignore the huge amount of energy used to extract, refine and process the raw materials, etc, etc, then theres manufacturing, packaging and transportation of the finished product....

I’m not deliberately ignoring it, but I am thinking of a lifetime’s enjoyment. Obviously not all music will be played regularly, but I’ve got numerous LPs that my parent bought when I was at school. Fifty plus years later they’re still in excellent condition, as they were always kept in a closed carrying box. If I had played the same content via streaming hundreds of times I’m not clear how advantageous it would be versus a physical LP that was made and shipped just the once.

I do know I am not about to do the maths!

 

[daveh75]

I’m not deliberately ignoring it, but I am thinking of a lifetime’s enjoyment. Obviously not all music will be played regularly, but I’ve got numerous LPs that my parent bought when I was at school. Fifty plus years later they’re still in excellent condition, as they were always kept in a closed carrying box. If I had played the same content via streaming hundreds of times I’m not clear how advantageous it would be versus a physical LP that was made and shipped just the once.

I do know I am not about to do the maths!

It's one LP to you, but if it sold in hundreds of thousands, even millions that's a lot of resources, compared to a file being served...

Then of course the entire process from extracting the raw materials to delivering it to the listener would have been a whole lot dirtier and inefficient 50 years ago.

Plus everyone has music in their collection that's never/rarely listened to, then there's the even the suggestion that 50% of new Vinyl is being bought by those with no means of playing it.

 

[davidf]

If you completely ignore the huge amount of energy used to extract, refine and process the raw materials, etc, etc, then theres manufacturing, packaging and transportation of the finished product....

Although, with the CD or record you buy once, it's made once, bought once, and played for as long as you own it - someone else may even get some benefit out of it if it is sold on. Streaming is a continuous, ongoing thing with regards to running servers etc. And there's some people literally dumping their CDs to switch to streaming. But I guess if we look at it like that and drop physical media like a bomb, we could point fingers at cars - electronic or otherwise - which is potentially worse as some might end up being written off after a few years, or only last a decade or two due to high wear and tear.

 

[Jasonovich]

Mine does on a regular basis

Are you still on the old telephone wire ADSL?
Better to switch over to optic fibre, if you're not already, much more reliable Doug. Though, to be fair, Virgin Media crashes at least once every 1-2 months.

 

[DCarmi]

If you completely ignore the huge amount of energy used to extract, refine and process the raw materials, etc, etc, then theres manufacturing, packaging and transportation of the finished product....

Figures I've seen suggest that a cd disc is 5 times less environmentally friendly than streaming the same album. This does not include packaging and transportation etc.

The same LP is around 17 times less friendly.

However, people now stream music more than the discs bought in the past, which does not help to the streaming figures.

Numbers quoted are indicative and should be taken with a decent amount of sodium-chloride!!

 

[Al ears]

Figures I've seen suggest that a cd disc is 5 times less environmentally friendly than streaming the same album. This does not include packaging and transportation etc.

The same LP is around 17 times less friendly.

However, people now stream music more than the discs bought in the past, which does not help to the streaming figures.

Numbers quoted are indicative and should be taken with a decent amount of sodium-chloride!!

Sodium chloride is a nasty substance not beneficial to your health so taking anything with a low dose is indeed encouraged....
PS: the same applies to 'statistics '

 

[DougK1]

Are you still on the old telephone wire ADSL?
Better to switch over to optic fibre, if you're not already, much more reliable Doug. Though, to be fair, Virgin Media crashes at least once every 1-2 months.

Of course I am Jason The guys laying fibre a couple of years ago cut my telephone cable, I was not pleased. What I have is sufficient for my current needs

 

[podknocker]

Figures I've seen suggest that a cd disc is 5 times less environmentally friendly than streaming the same album. This does not include packaging and transportation etc.

The same LP is around 17 times less friendly.

However, people now stream music more than the discs bought in the past, which does not help to the streaming figures.

Numbers quoted are indicative and should be taken with a decent amount of sodium-chloride!!

Any human activity can be viewed as a threat to the world's ecology. I've done environmental conservation courses and done a bit of field work, so I'm a bit of an ecowarrior, to be honest. The thing is, all our collective contributions to the early demise and death of this planet are significant and are a direct cause of the negative impact, but I'm a realist. I'm not prepared to go back to living in a cave and abandon my biological right to my place in a modern society, using electricity and ranting on this forum. I do consider my carbon footprint, but my attempts to minimise the effects are completely negated by the lifestyles of my neighbours, never mind the new coal fired power station China builds every week. You can't obsess about this stuff and reduce your rightful quality of life in a modern world. Yes, try to recycle and don't burn tyres at the weekend, but just be sensible and practical about it. The thing is, humans will be gone in around 1000 years, because of war, disease, overpopulation and just plain old stupidity and I can guarantee the planet will eventually rid itself of any sign of our endless greed and destruction and our attempts to ruin the planet will prove futile. The planet will repair itself in the long term and another species, not obsessed with materialism and vanity will take our place. The world will give a big sigh of relief and the stage will be set for another life form to fill the hole we leave behind. 'Humans, thank **** they've gone. Time for another ice age and a bit of peace and quiet.' Sorry it's a bit off topic, but unless 8 billion people change their lifestyle and put the world first, nothing will change. Sean Lock accurately approximated a single person's efforts to minimse their impact, to be the same as turning up to an earthquake zone with a pan and brush. If you want to cut out all your daily activity to 'save the planet' then go ahead, but it won't change the outcome.

 

[My2Cents]

The thing is, humans will be gone in around 1000 years, because of war, disease, overpopulation

1,000 years? You're very optimistic!
My contribution to the environment was to not have children (and neither did my only other sibling).
I think I have earned a ton of carbon credits right there! (but I still attempt to be frugal as much as I possibly can.... except for all those damn guitars).

We are right on the edge of a precipice as a result of our ecological overshoot.
One example, the native Americans lived in tepee's and caves for thousands of years and (although they didn't know any better) probably valued life more than we perhaps do today and they were (for the most part) probably pretty happy. They made music, danced, sang and told stories. Their lifestyle kept them connected with nature.

 

[jy999]

Back to the original post... of course its a fad? I could see physical media staying, but we need something new and exciting, so many problems in the LP chain.

As for the idea that CDs don't matter because the originals were analog tapes.. well, only if the tapes had lower quality. The LP master/production process downgrades those tape versions quite a bit.

That said, I'm starting to look at LPs for my system!

 

[Revolutions]

Servers will destroy the earth. It seems everyone is relying on quantum computing to solve the problem of efficient power. Except it’s only just about feasible & a long way from viable.

every single email, doorbell video, notification from instagram etc needs a physical server with power & cooling. I use server space to send a few sentences from my phone to my laptop. How many times do I stream music without thinking about it! I really should download albums to my phone to stop the pointless waste.

We really are the worst kind of cancer vs the status quo of nature. But holy crap, look what can happen when cultural evolution becomes the norm. We adapt at thousands of times the speed of evolution. Incredible. Although we have no other species to compare it to. Which is mind-blowing when you consider the conditions that had to happen in order for homo sapiens to thrive like we have.

Oh, what? Yeah.. virgin materials is a disaster too.

 

[Revolutions]

That said, I'm starting to look at LPs for my system!

I approve of this whether it’s albums or Les Paul’s.

Regarding formats: we love vinyl artwork but dislike the faff/noise floor. We love CDs for the practicality. What we’re saying is BRING BACK LASER DISCS.

 

[podknocker]

Back to the original post... of course its a fad? I could see physical media staying, but we need something new and exciting, so many problems in the LP chain.

As for the idea that CDs don't matter because the originals were analog tapes.. well, only if the tapes had lower quality. The LP master/production process downgrades those tape versions quite a bit.

That said, I'm starting to look at LPs for my system!

When you move a master tape recording to CD, there is less loss of information as there is when you transfer this recording to an LP. CD gives you more than vinyl. CD has a higher resolotion than vinyl, so a bad recording will be revealed, warts and all. A vinyl version will flatter the recording and sound 'safe'. I don't want safe, I want the authentic reproduction of a recording.

 

[jy999]

BRING BACK LASER DISCS.

This - minus the disc rot. They could even make players that play both sides so you don't have to flip the disc, remember those?

 

[My2Cents]

Servers will destroy the earth. It seems everyone is relying on quantum computing to solve the problem of efficient power. Except it’s only just about feasible & a long way from viable.

every single email, doorbell video, notification from instagram etc needs a physical server with power & cooling. I use server space to send a few sentences from my phone to my laptop. How many times do I stream music without thinking about it! I really should download albums to my phone to stop the pointless waste.

We really are the worst kind of cancer vs the status quo of nature. But holy crap, look what can happen when cultural evolution becomes the norm. We adapt at thousands of times the speed of evolution. Incredible. Although we have no other species to compare it to. Which is mind-blowing when you consider the conditions that had to happen in order for homo sapiens to thrive like we have.

Oh, what? Yeah.. virgin materials is a disaster too.

The clock continues to turn, despite the fact that nature has set off a thousand alarms... and we all just sleepwalk on, oblivious in our consumer daydream.
Except those who are not so fortunate, they have to endure war, famine, disease and suffering. Vast numbers of people are now being forced to move away from their homes due to environmental changes (environmental migration) and sociopolitical upheaval... and no one wants them in their backyard.

 

[podknocker]

Servers will destroy the earth. It seems everyone is relying on quantum computing to solve the problem of efficient power. Except it’s only just about feasible & a long way from viable.

every single email, doorbell video, notification from instagram etc needs a physical server with power & cooling. I use server space to send a few sentences from my phone to my laptop. How many times do I stream music without thinking about it! I really should download albums to my phone to stop the pointless waste.

We really are the worst kind of cancer vs the status quo of nature. But holy crap, look what can happen when cultural evolution becomes the norm. We adapt at thousands of times the speed of evolution. Incredible. Although we have no other species to compare it to. Which is mind-blowing when you consider the conditions that had to happen in order for homo sapiens to thrive like we have.

Oh, what? Yeah.. virgin materials is a disaster too.

Without servers, we couldn't discuss servers, or anything technological. If you want to go back a million years, with fewer than 30000 humans on this planet, gazing at the stars with awe and not even thinking about what the future world would look like, that's very admirable, but we are where we are. Searching for an unachievable Utopia will end in disappontment I'm afraid.

 

[Revolutions]

Searching for an unachievable Utopia will end in disappontment I'm afraid.

Waiting for a utopian solution to appear is similarly pointless, just so you know.

We’re screwed either way.

 

[My2Cents]

Without servers, we couldn't discuss servers, or anything technological. If you want to go back a million years, with fewer than 30000 humans on this planet, gazing at the stars with awe and not even thinking about what the future world would look like, that's very admirable, but we are where we are. Searching for an unachievable Utopia will end in disappontment I'm afraid.

What if the servers are discussing us? ... right at this minute! LOL

 

[abacus]

What if the servers are discussing us? ... right at this minute! LOL

They are and have been for many years.

Bill

 

[Jasonovich]

Of course I am Jason The guys laying fibre a couple of years ago cut my telephone cable, I was not pleased. What I have is sufficient for my current needs

Fabulous

 

[davidf]

Figures I've seen suggest that a cd disc is 5 times less environmentally friendly than streaming the same album. This does not include packaging and transportation etc.

The same LP is around 17 times less friendly.

What's that taking into account though? A single stream/listen? Or over a lifetime of streaming an album or playing a disc?

What you stream from though is running 24/7, so that's ongoing costs and energy consumption for all that's involved in offering online streaming, even when you're not streaming it. If no one is streaming anything at any point, there's still energy involved.

So weigh up me buying a disc (either one) once and then playing it in my home for 50 years against the cost and energy of running a server 24/7 for 50 years.

Cars are infinitely more environmentally harmful than a bicycle, but no one cares.

 

[wescandela]

Yes. It is.
Digital High Resolution is the future. Especially SACD/ Blu-ray audio.

192 kHz 24 bit.
Bring it.

 

[jy999]

A new thing that struck me. A point for LPs over CDs... Aging of the packaging!! I hate... Hate hate hate, old grimy scratched stuffed CD jewel cases. Apart from a few paper sleeve types that I have, they're all awful once they age.

LP packaging ages much more gracefully!!

 

[Jasonovich]

A new thing that struck me. A point for LPs over CDs... Aging of the packaging!! I hate... Hate hate hate, old grimy scratched stuffed CD jewel cases. Apart from a few paper sleeve types that I have, they're all awful once they age.

LP packaging ages much more gracefully!!

Ultra violet light! All my music artwork is digitalised and this never ages

 

[manicm]

Yes. It is.
Digital High Resolution is the future. Especially SACD/ Blu-ray audio.

192 kHz 24 bit.
Bring it.

You don't need SACD or Blu-ray for 192/24 bit. In face SACD is not 192/24, its DSD format.
You can stream or purchase 192/24 high res music