Help!!

[matthewpiano]

Ok, so I'm getting there - slowly!!

I am very pleased with the Q Acoustics 1030i speakers. They are here to stay.

I'm also very pleased with many aspects of the Cambridge Audio 650A's performance, but on occasion it is just a little on the bright side. As some will have seen I have been contemplating moving over to a NAD instead, but I'd rather avoid it if I can, especially as I feel I will lose some of the better aspects of the CA.

Probably a daft question but how much am I compromising the amp and speakers by using the 340C or NAD C521BEE CD players? How much of a difference would buying the 650C make to the sound?

Am I using the right cables? I am using Chord Rumour 2 speaker cables and Crimson interconnects. Is there are slightly warmer interconnect and/or speaker cable combination that I should be using to get the best out of the system?

If I have to I am prepared to detour back down the NAD route, but I'd rather avoid it as I already have the 650A and, apart from anything else, I remain slightly dubious about the reliability of the C545BEE.

Any further thoughts, particularly from the WHFS&V team, would be gratefully received.

 

[Anonymous]

You could try a Chord Superscreen mains cable on the CDP/amp to help with the brightness. Some say it works wonders, others that it makes no difference.

You could also try Kimber 4TC speaker cable, 100% copper as opposed to the silver plated copper of the Chord.

These two tweaks might bring it all into line.

Also, what sort of isolation have you got? A rack? Granite slabs?

EDIT - just get yourself the Spendor S3e on ebay (Brighton Sevenoaks) and bee done with it. For £599 you'll love them to pieces!

 

[matthewpiano]

Thanks Igglebert. I'm using an Alphason glass hi-fi stand (AD5/??) with each component on a seperate shelf.

In terms of the Kimber, what interconnect would you suggest with that?

When I switch between 340C and C521 CD players the differences between the two are obvious. Do you agree with my suspicion that the amp and speakers might simply be highlighting the lack of quality in the source, and that going for the 650C that matches the amp might resolve the issue?

The thing is, I don't think this is insurmountable and I think making the rash change in all the electronics is the big mistake I've made in the past. Maybe the upgrade in CD player and cables is all I need now?

EDIT: The speakers are staying. Whatever happens I am not changing those. Having heard other speakers on the 650A I love what the Qs do, I just want to get that little bit more warmth from the system now.

 

[Anonymous]

matthewpiano:Thanks Igglebert. I'm using an Alphason glass hi-fi stand (AD5/??) with each component on a seperate shelf.

In terms of the Kimber, what interconnect would you suggest with that?

When I switch between 340C and C521 CD players the differences between the two are obvious. Do you agree with my suspicion that the amp and speakers might simply be highlighting the lack of quality in the source, and that going for the 650C that matches the amp might resolve the issue?

The thing is, I don't think this is insurmountable and I think making the rash change in all the electronics is the big mistake I've made in the past. Maybe the upgrade in CD player and cables is all I need now?

EDIT: The speakers are staying. Whatever happens I am not changing those. Having heard other speakers on the 650A I love what the Qs do, I just want to get that little bit more warmth from the system now.

You could try a better cable like a used Chameleon Silver Plus. With one of those you'll get more bass and detail which could help balance the tone. Only make one change at a time though.

Regarding the source-amp mix, I don't think there's a simple answer. Start with a good pair of speakers that suit with respect to taste & room, add an amp that is capable of driving them sufficiently and then find a source that works for you. If the speakers and amp are right then the source should be easy enough to slot in. An approach that works well if you stick to neutral components. My amp and speakers are pretty neutral so I can get away with the neutral XRay 8 quite well. My last system was so bright I couldn't get any of it right.

So, maybe the mix could be:

1) Q Acoustics speakers, NAD amp, CA CDP with Chord cables
2) Q Acoustics speakers, CA amp, NAD CDP and Kimber cables

If I were in your shoes I'd be buying a CSP I/C from ebay (used). If the balance still isn't right, change the speaker cable to Kimber 4TC. If it's pretty much there, add a Chord Silverscreen.

EDIT Just thought of another very minor tweak that might fix the top end; Rothwell attenuators. I got a pair off ebay for a tenner so an easy thing to try.

 

[matthewpiano]

Thank you Igglebert. Some really good ideas there. I did have CSP at one point and I had thought of getting some again, so your suggestion has confirmed a thought for me.

Your balanced thoughts really are very helpful and much appreciated. Its helping me to think through this in a measured way rather than in knee-jerk reactions.

 

[Anonymous]

First thing I would change is the speaker cable. I used Rumour in my old all Cyrus system and found they made the Cyrus kit sound even more lean. By chance I tried some Townshend Isolda which gives a much fuller sound without loosing any detail. Kimber 8TC is very similar to the Isolda. I've never used Kimber 4TC but it should give similar results too.

These cables aren't cheap and may be overkill for your system but if you buy second hand you could try them out and if they don't give you the result you're after, sell them on with minimal/no loss.

 

[Anonymous]

I can only speak from my experience

I would suggest the Silver High Breed interconnect, but contact the seller and ask him to make you a set of the Coherence (was a limited run, but think he still has a small amount left, as someone on another forum managed to get a pair a week ago,.... and if my memory serves me right, I think the seller mentioned that he had 4m left ...will cost you approx £20-£30

don't be mislead about the silver part... , the SHB has a copper core with silver outer braiding

as for speaker cable, I would go with something made of copper ... The Hitachi cable I use is hard to find but if not available, use some Van Den Hul (check what is available) ...I used some a few years ago on my other system and was very pleased ... was a flat copper cable and cannot remember the model of the cable

I think the combination of the 2 will suit your system, and if you are not happy with the SHB, you can get a full refund from the seller

currently have my son's Pioneer A300R precision amp hooked up on my main speakers + cdp .... with the SHB interconnect and hitachi copper cable .... works very well

If you are unsure about SHB, I have a spare pair of SHB Synergy (500mm),which you can loan to test...if interested, ask one of the moderators to supply you with my email and I will post them to you .... they still need burning in though (approx 30hrs)

 

[chebby]

From another UK magazine (normally devoted to high-end) I have read that the CA pairing of 650C and 650A is superb.

So much so that they made it a 'System of the year' in their 'Product of the year' awards. (You can find the award and equipment reviews on the Cambridge Audio website)

Worth bearing in mind that CA also make their own interconnects so these are probably worth exploring (they don't cost a fortune after all).

 

[audioaffair]

Chord Company cables are excellent and I would say Rumour 2 is a good choice for your system. As a cable upgrade, you could consider adding one or several Chord Superscreen mains cables, possibly on a home trial basis to hear the differences for yourself first?

 

[Anonymous]

I hate to disagree with you dim_span but the SHB I/Cs made my system sound too toppy so might make Matthew's problems worse. I'm back to CSP.

 

[Anonymous]

igglebert:I hate to disagree with you dim_span but the SHB I/Cs made my system sound too toppy so might make Matthew's problems worse. I'm back to CSP.

no probs ...as I said, I am happy with mine and for that was the reason I said Matthew could loan a pair from me to see if it suited his needs ...

 

[Anonymous]

Matthew, what are your thoughts about using your current cdp's with the MF V DAC? As I can remember you raving about this not that long ago. If you still have this DAC then it would probably be of equal to the other CDP's you were talking about? Also it would be cheaper to use the V DAC than buy a more expensive player. Or what about using the DAC Magic with one of your cdp's? I'd be interested to know your thoughts.

You could also try changing in various interconnects and speaker cable to see if you could get a bit more warmth. Wouldn't suggest spending a lot on cable though.

 

[Anonymous]

Inter 84:
Matthew, what are your thoughts about using your current cdp's with the MF V DAC? As I can remember you raving about this not that long ago. If you still have this DAC then it would probably be of equal to the other CDP's you were talking about? Also it would be cheaper to use the V DAC than buy a more expensive player. Or what about using the DAC Magic with one of your cdp's? I'd be interested to know your thoughts.

You could also try changing in various interconnects and speaker cable to see if you could get a bit more warmth. Wouldn't suggest spending a lot on cable though.

my thoughts too the vdac might help with the brightness `

i agree since its a characteristic of the amp cables arent going to do that much

 

[Anonymous]

cables make differences, but they are minor IMHO

so, if the system currently sound's too bright, I don't think that different cables will rectify that completely .... perhaps look at warmer sounding cdp's, or warmer sounding amp or different speakers?

 

[Anonymous]

Get some warmer sounding speakers, Spendor or Pmc maybe? Cables won't make any difference in my opinion.

 

[the record spot]

I'll just mention Audioquest's Copperhead i/c - this is a minor tweak as already mentioned, but if the balance of the 650 A & C works but just needs slightly taming, these could well do the trick.

For the money (£65), they are excellent. They took away excessive brightness, but not at the expense of detail or dynamics. In addition, they helped better define the bottom end too. I used to use their Turquoise interconnect and it strikes me this is their "house sound" if you like. In other words, if you see the Ruby or Jade cables from a decade or so back, they'll likely have the same effect too. I'd recommend them highly.

You might find that the balance of the CA gear with the AQ cable and Q speakers is a good partnership.

 

[drummerman]

Go and listen to the Myriad Mi. This should, I'd say, fit your bill. It sounds actually very good and looks even nicer, especially with the Totem's they bought. All you got to worry about then is some speaker wire. Best of all, you can't swop anything so you're stuck for a while. Problem solved. Regards

 

[Anonymous]

Bert Puttocks:Get some warmer sounding speakers, Spendor or Pmc maybe? Cables won't make any difference in my opinion.

cables do make a minor difference IMHO, however if a system sounds 'overly bright' cables will not rectify that ...

however, looking at things rationally, matthew says that the system sounds fine and only occasionally sounds bright ... so it could be the cd recording that he is listening to is 'bright'? ... or maybe it's supposed to sound bright on that specific recording?

Matthew also stated that he will keep the speakers .... so my suggestion (as previously mentioned on another thread), is to get an amp with tone controls .... he can keep all settings on neutral, and when a specific cd sounds bright, or not to his liking, he can adjust the amp to suit his personal taste

He had the exact same problem with his previous system where some music sounded fine to him , and some did not.... if he changes the cdp or speakers to a warmer sounding one, the music that sounds fine now, will be too warm, and he will be in the exact same position as now

 

[Anonymous]

or add something like this to the system (I would not add it to mine as I don't have a prob) ...

but it could be a cheap solution? .... these equalizers sell for cheap (some for £20)

 

[Anonymous]

I had silver plated cables and was told by someone that they could exaggerate excessive treble. Since then i've changed to just copper and think it has made some difference.

referring to what dim _span was saying, you can dial out some treble on the 650A then use the direct button to bypass the tone controls when the adjustment is not needed. i'm doing this but find it sounds a bit 'muted' with too much treble taken off.

i think that the 650C would probably be the best partner for the 650A. i've heard the 640C connected to a Quad amp that sounded amazing. the 650C is and upgrade from that, plus it was designed with the 650A.

let me know what you finally decide to do, i've got a similar problem with my 650A amp. sounds amazing on most recordings but a little bright on a few. what sort of music do you find it sounds bright on?

 

[Anonymous]

mr.c.brown:

I had silver plated cables and was told by someone that they could exaggerate excessive treble. Since then i've changed to just copper and think it has made some difference.

sounds like you may not be so sure? ...

however, I recently auditioned a setup that consisted of the CA 840C, 840E, 840W and mordaunt short mezzo 8 speakers.... I also found the system bright and lacked bass

could boil down to the fact that I am acustomed to the sound of my own system, as many say that the CA system that I auditioned is a very good system

suppose it all boils down to what one prefers

 

[matthewpiano]

Thanks for all the replies. Very helpful - all of them.

I've experimented with the V-DAC tonight and it just doesn't do anything for me in this context. It seems to rein in the soundstage and make everything sound very dry, also adding a splashiness to cymbals that isn't there without it. It also dampens the dynamism of the whole thing. The Crystal DAC in the 340C sounds better, and the experiment shows me that I really don't want to lose the clarity and openess that the 650A gives me.

I've also experimented with speaker positioning and found that moving the speakers back only an inch or two has made a substantial difference. It has filled the sound out without losing the detail and fluidity. Listening to 'If Love Is King' by Barclay James Harvest now, I'm getting all the detail and spaciousness but properly underpinned, even at a relatively low volume level.

What tonight has shown me is that the 650A is the right amp and that the 1030i are definitively the right speakers for me. The sound now just needs that lift that a better source will bring and as c.brown suggests I believe the 650C is the right player for the job.

I am also going to buy some Chameleon Silver Plus (because it is a cable I know to be good from past experience) and investigate using the Chord Co. power cables. I am tempted to look out some of those Auioquest interconnects as well - if I prefer the CSP on the CD player I can utilise an Audioquest elsewhere.

Will keep you posted.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

I had the Denon DCD-700AE and it would be just what you are after, so how about demoing the new Denon DCD-710AE?

 

[matthewpiano]

Gerrardasnails:I had the Denon DCD-700AE and it would be just what you are after, so how about demoing the new Denon DCD-710AE?

Good idea. I will try to arrange a demo before I make any final decisions about the CD player. Thank you Gerrardasnails!

 

[plastic penguin]

If it's a bit on the bright side, copper speaker cable allied to Chord Chrysalis interconnects (if you can find some) should do the trick.

When I went into Sevenoaks S&V last Wednesday, the guy there asked me what system I have and what sound do I want to achieve. When I told him he said my system for the price is hard to beat; would have to spend quite a hefty amount to gain a serious upgrade. Just to make sure it wasn't flannel, I phoned up Audio-T and asked the same question. He said, and I quote: "For £1,500 your current combo is unbeatable." He then went on to say, you would be looking at minimum of the Nait 5i combo + Spendor SA1 speakers to notice much difference.