Using 120W amp with 60W & 80W speakers FOR A ORGAN!

[90110n]

Look, I get the "can I use amp with higher wattage than speaker" question has been discussed dozens of times with the answer "it doesn't really matter unless you turn up the volume too much" and you're not asking for something ridiculous like running 5W speakers with a 100W amp.

However, I'm in charge of finding an amp that will power small 60W speakers (potentially also 80W standing speakers) for a Sonus 40 "home organ", and most four channel amps boil down to at least 5.1 surround amps (which I don't require for the organ, just four channels) that begin at like 120W PER CHANNEL.

Now, we're not talking about regular bass "kicks" here, much rather we're talking about long and loud pipe sounds, of which a good chunk is deep enough to go down to your very bones and potentially put a huge strain on the speakers (I'm not planning on buying a sub here though, in case anyone wants to suggest that).

Would I still be fine to recommend using a 120W amp like this Denon here

https://www.hifi-regler.de/files/pdf/denon/bedienungsanleitung-denon-avr-1612.pdf

for the use of 60W (80W) speakers for classical organ / church music? I don't really feel comfortable at all using a 120W or even 100W amp here, but all decent 50W amps I'm able to find only support 2 speakers or (in case they support 50W) are some very shady china amps I'd rather want to avoid for quality / electrical safety concerns.

Or they are made by Auna, which I no longer trust after a series of absolut unfortunate purchases.

Budget for the amp is up to 400 € / $, preferably though in the 100-200 € / $ range.

 

[twinkletoes]

Id look a pro install amps from the likes of crown you will find exactly what you need or perhaps emotiva they have a 4 channel amp as well. both brand are pretty affordable All you'll need then is a pre amp and they can be had cheap from the likes of eBay or perhaps the the brand mentioned above have matching units.

Though power numbers will be higher than you "need" but trust me it wont hurt the speakers at all.

 

[90110n]

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Though power numbers will be higher than you "need" but trust me it wont hurt the speakers at all.

I already have the Demon here (could return it anytime though), so what you're saying is that using the 120W amp would be fine for 60W speakers in this scenario?

What would happen if I overpower the speakers, and how long would they last? (Will there be enough time to turn volume down or is it an instant death?)

 

[12th Monkey]

Unless you are getting audible distortion, the chances of you doing any damage are negligible. And unless you are playing at very high volumes, that's hard to imagine.

Damage can be done instantly or over a period, but it seems highly unlikely to me. If it sounds OK, don't worry about it.

 

[90110n]

Unless you are getting audible distortion, the chances of you doing any damage are negligible. And unless you are playing at very high volumes, that's hard to imagine.

Damage can be done instantly or over a period, but it seems highly unlikely to me. If it sounds OK, don't worry about it.

Volume will be high I guess (not playing the organ myself), but nothing beyond what you'd audibly perceive from a seat in a cinema (sorry, that's the best comparison I can come up with right now).

I'm more worried about Denon really pushing it's own volume analysis feature, that'll play "loud" volumes for you to tell the device if it's fine or not. I really have to pay attention not to accidentally trigger that crap

 

[12th Monkey]

Volume will be high I guess (not playing the organ myself), but nothing beyond what you'd audibly perceive from a seat in a cinema (sorry, that's the best comparison I can come up with right now).

If household items are not being rattled around by volume, I would suggest you'll be OK!

 

[twinkletoes]

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I already have the Demon here (could return it anytime though), so what you're saying is that using the 120W amp would be fine for 60W speakers in this scenario?

What would happen if I overpower the speakers, and how long would they last? (Will there be enough time to turn volume down or is it an instant death?)

as with all AVR tech specs they cherry picking the best numbers.

2 channels driven it 75 watts @ 8ohm's

It doesn't give you the all channels driven number but it wont be 75 watts

you have nothing to worry about

 

[abacus]

The main problem is the bass, as the amount of output the pedals produce will easily overload anything but high bass level floor standers. (Smaller speakers without a sub are a no no)
As mentioned above, go to the pro market for both amp and speakers as this is what they are designed for.
Remember AVRs are designed for home cinema and usually have a separate powered sub to take the strain form the amp & speakers.

Bill

 

[90110n]

as with all AVR tech specs they cherry picking the best numbers.

2 channels driven it 75 watts @ 8ohm's

It doesn't give you the all channels driven number but it wont be 75 watts

you have nothing to worry about

View attachment 5879

Well, I do for the 60W speakers because they have 6 Ohms?

 

[twinkletoes]

As I said they're not specifying an all channels driven number, I can assure you it won't be anywhere near 120 watts its vary rare that AVR's can actually produce that sort of wattage in to all channels driven, amps of that sort of ilk are a much different animal to what you have in front of you, a 3 man lift type of amp.

Also I bet they're dynamic numbers not sustained numbers, in fact id bet a lot of money on that since they're not stating dynamic and sustained figures.

As mentioned above AVR's are designed to run satellite speakers with a sub in tow. that's will be how they're achieving those figures.

Sue to the speakers crossovers the speakers wont even attempt to produce the pipe organs lowest octaves thats what the crossover is for. Its truly a shame you dont want a subwoofer as you'll be missing a vast majority of the music and as you say feeling.

But do as you wish, all I can say is they'll be fine, never once have i blown speakers because of to many watts it very much the other way round.

 

[90110n]

As I said they're not specifying an all channels driven number, I can assure you it won't be anywhere near 120 watts its vary rare that AVR's can actually produce that sort of wattage in to all channels driven, amps of that sort of ilk are a much different animal to what you have in front of you, a 3 man lift type of amp.

Also I bet they're dynamic numbers not sustained numbers, in fact id bet a lot of money on that since they're not stating dynamic and sustained figures.

As mentioned above AVR's are designed to run satellite speakers with a sub in tow. that's will be how they're achieving those figures.

Sue to the speakers crossovers the speakers wont even attempt to produce the pipe organs lowest octaves thats what the crossover is for. Its truly a shame you dont want a subwoofer as you'll be missing a vast majority of the music and as you say feeling.

But do as you wish, all I can say is they'll be fine, never once have i blown speakers because of to many watts it very much the other way round

Alright, will try.

I also don't plan on buying a sub for no reason, it's more of a space concern. The whole music room is stuffed out with shelves, chairs, boxes a grand piano and the organ, what little space in the corners was left is now closed tight with two standing speakers and the little 60W ones even had to go on the organ itself, because there's no real way to place them in any sort of acoustically purposeful way in the room unless you want to have one of them like 30cm next to your right ear lol.

There's a ~70 - 80cm small way through all of this mess, and that's what pupils wanting to learn piano or organ here need to walk through

So yeah, in case we can get a little space free for a smallish sub it may be possible, but right now I honestly don't know where to place it.

 

[nopiano]

The main problem is the bass, as the amount of output the pedals produce will easily overload anything but high bass level floor standers. (Smaller speakers without a sub are a no no)
As mentioned above, go to the pro market for both amp and speakers as this is what they are designed for.
Remember AVRs are designed for home cinema and usually have a separate powered sub to take the strain form the amp & speakers.

Bill

I’m with Bill on this. If I’m understanding correctly we are talking about reproducing the output of an electronic organ, yes? Each note is fairly close to a sine wave, unless you are using reedy-sounding ‘stops’, so it’s nothing like ‘music’, it’s more like the test output from a signal generator. That could easily fry a normal Hifi loudspeaker.

The $64,000 question is why are you attempting to use 60 watt speakers? And what does the organ manufacturer suggest?

 

[Fandango Andy]

I know nothing about organs so just googled the model you mention. It appears to already have the amplification and speakers inbuilt. Has it failed and you are bypassing the existing amp, or are modifying it to use differently?

A 5.1 amp with an easy setup such as a Sony will only use the connected speakers so the extra channels shouldn't be an issue. Other than that there are many amps (most Marantz) that can run two sets of speakers, but that's just stereo duplicated, so is really intended for one amp to provide 2.0 in two separate rooms, or a choice of loudspeakers in the same room.

After that you are into quadraphonic, which is vintage 4.0.

As you said yourself, the amp isn't going to hard the speakers unless to play it too loud, but have you checked the speakers are suitable for the sound.you are creating?