Heavy gauge wire vs Audiophile Cables

[Overdose]

I'm afraid I think there are some flaws to this methodology, soundstage for one as Paul mentioned. Not to mention that two cables sounding different with two different speakers will cause enough confusion for me leading to a sonic headache. I prefer to get used to the cable and then switch over to the other choices, live with them for a while and make my decision without any more abx testing as it leads to further confusion

Don't be affraid, it's not scary, merely a simple and effective way to demonstrate any differences between cables, if they exist.

Soundstage should not be affected by speaker cable changes, if it is, something is very wrong indeed.

I am not suggesting using different speakers, but a different cable attached to each speaker.

 

[Paul.]

Ah, Ive got one of those for my sub. I bought it mostly cos it was only a tenner more than a significanly less pretty cable

 

[shafesk]

10 pounds for pretty is a bargain

 

[Overdose]

Maybe it does, but your comment is irrelevant.

Saw what you did there, really good. Here's another animal themed pic....

 

[Paul.]

Thats a beautiful analogy, when you consider its a myth that Ostriches actually do that.

Little bit of knowledge and all that...

 

[MajorFubar]

merely a simple and effective way to demonstrate any differences between cables, if they exist.

It's not really though is it, as various people have tried to point out. For a start it's very likely that both speakers sound different to start with because of room accoustics. What you hear from your normal listening position is a blend of the two. Unless you listen in a treated anechoic chamber - seated of course at the apex of the equilateral triangle - it's not even a remotely relevant test. Sorry.

 

[Anonymous]

Here is a great test i've always used when buying new equipment.

1. plug it in.

2. add some great music

3. listen

4. see if you enjoy the music

Quite simple really!

 

[Overdose]

merely a simple and effective way to demonstrate any differences between cables, if they exist.

It's not really though is it, as various people have tried to point out. For a start it's very likely that both speakers sound different to start with because of room accoustics. What you hear from your normal listening position is a blend of the two. Unless you listen in a treated anechoic chamber - seated of course at the apex of the equilateral triangle - it's not even a remotely relevant test. Sorry.

Yes it really is and to think otherwise is rather missing the point. Any difference whatsover in the sonic characteristics of any cable, if evident, will be heard using this method.

And that is why I suggested using a 'mono' track. If you're concerned about any of the other effects that you've just mentioned (or anyone else for that matter) then cables are the least of your worries.

 

[Overdose]

Thats a beautiful analogy, when you consider its a myth that Ostriches actually do that.

Little bit of knowledge and all that...

The sentiment remains.

 

[idc]

A wise hifi dealer once said to me:

"Rich, the moment you start worrying about cables and upgrades do me a favour. Sell me your system back, buy a cheap one, and start enjoying the music again!"

I like that

If you really do fancy changing cables look at pro-audio makers such as Proel or Van Damme. They are designed for long runs, are robust and do not demand silly money. There are lots of sellers on eBay.

 

[MajorFubar]

Yes it really is and to think otherwise is rather missing the point. Any difference whatsover in the sonic characteristics of any cable, if evident, will be heard using this method.
And that is why I suggested using a 'mono' track. If you're concerned about any of the other effects that you've just mentioned (or anyone else for that matter) then cables are the least of your worries.

We will have to agree to differ. For the reasons myself and others haev explained, I personally wouldn't be happy to judge any potential upgrade using only one speaker, unless I mainly intended only to listen on one speaker. But you are of course entitled to your opinion.

 

[BenLaw]

merely a simple and effective way to demonstrate any differences between cables, if they exist.

It's not really though is it, as various people have tried to point out. For a start it's very likely that both speakers sound different to start with because of room accoustics. What you hear from your normal listening position is a blend of the two. Unless you listen in a treated anechoic chamber - seated of course at the apex of the equilateral triangle - it's not even a remotely relevant test. Sorry.

Yes it really is and to think otherwise is rather missing the point. Any difference whatsover in the sonic characteristics of any cable, if evident, will be heard using this method.

And that is why I suggested using a 'mono' track. If you're concerned about any of the other effects that you've just mentioned (or anyone else for that matter) then cables are the least of your worries.

It really won't, this is a terrible test. Other factors which have greater influence on sound than the cable swap: different speaker (manufacturing tolerances), different room acoustics (massively different, relatively speaking, per speaker given their different position), differences in hearing in each ear (left speaker coming more into left ear etc), small movements in head position altering sound.

Ironically your test will probably achieve the opposite of what you expect, in that people will hear differences because of the factors I've outlined but will erroneously put this down to the cable change.

 

[Overdose]

merely a simple and effective way to demonstrate any differences between cables, if they exist.

It's not really though is it, as various people have tried to point out. For a start it's very likely that both speakers sound different to start with because of room accoustics. What you hear from your normal listening position is a blend of the two. Unless you listen in a treated anechoic chamber - seated of course at the apex of the equilateral triangle - it's not even a remotely relevant test. Sorry.

Yes it really is and to think otherwise is rather missing the point. Any difference whatsover in the sonic characteristics of any cable, if evident, will be heard using this method.

And that is why I suggested using a 'mono' track. If you're concerned about any of the other effects that you've just mentioned (or anyone else for that matter) then cables are the least of your worries.

It really won't, this is a terrible test. Other factors which have greater influence on sound than the cable swap: different speaker (manufacturing tolerances), different room acoustics (massively different, relatively speaking, per speaker given their different position), differences in hearing in each ear (left speaker coming more into left ear etc), small movements in head position altering sound.

Ironically your test will probably achieve the opposite of what you expect, in that people will hear differences because of the factors I've outlined but will erroneously put this down to the cable change.

I think some wires have been crossed here. The point is to be able to test two different speaker cables back to back. The same speakers are used, in the same room, the person testing is sitting in exactly the same position, the track is mono and therefore the same output from either speaker. The only variable is the cable and by swapping the balance from left to right, you will hear any audible difference if it exists in that pair of cables. The results of testing in this manner are more reliable than taking time out to swap cables completely, mainly due to limited aural memory. If you want really acurate results, measurements are needed, but then there are those that believe that scientific results and the laws of physics don't always apply on planet hifi.

And as I have said, if the factors that you have just mentioned are so influential to the system sound quality or reproduction, why bother changing cables that would be infinitely less so?

 

[BenLaw]

merely a simple and effective way to demonstrate any differences between cables, if they exist.

It's not really though is it, as various people have tried to point out. For a start it's very likely that both speakers sound different to start with because of room accoustics. What you hear from your normal listening position is a blend of the two. Unless you listen in a treated anechoic chamber - seated of course at the apex of the equilateral triangle - it's not even a remotely relevant test. Sorry.

Yes it really is and to think otherwise is rather missing the point. Any difference whatsover in the sonic characteristics of any cable, if evident, will be heard using this method.

And that is why I suggested using a 'mono' track. If you're concerned about any of the other effects that you've just mentioned (or anyone else for that matter) then cables are the least of your worries.

It really won't, this is a terrible test. Other factors which have greater influence on sound than the cable swap: different speaker (manufacturing tolerances), different room acoustics (massively different, relatively speaking, per speaker given their different position), differences in hearing in each ear (left speaker coming more into left ear etc), small movements in head position altering sound.

Ironically your test will probably achieve the opposite of what you expect, in that people will hear differences because of the factors I've outlined but will erroneously put this down to the cable change.

I think some wires have been crossed here.

No, I understand what you mean.

The point is to be able to test two different speaker cables back to back.

I understand what you are trying to achieve; it doesn't work.

The same speakers are used

But no speakers of a pair are identical.

in the same room

I know it's the same room, but each speaker has a different position in the room and interacts with it differently. Put it like this - do your experiment but with the same speaker cable. What you hear will not be identical when you are listening only from the left speaker compared to when you are listening only from the right.

the person testing is sitting in exactly the same position

Not possible I'm afraid. Even very small movements in head position affect the sound. If I sit in the very sweet spot of my setup, a mm either way will change the sound. This is why people should take such care over precise positioning of speakers, it's far more important than a cable change.

If you want really acurate results, measurements are needed, but then there are those that believe that scientific results and the laws of physics don't always apply on planet hifi.

I agree measurements are needed and I agree that the rejection of science is madness.

And as I have said, if the factors that you have just mentioned are so influential to the system sound quality or reproduction, why bother changing cables that would be infinitely less so?

I agree. There is no point changing cables, because these other matters have far more influence on the sound. Best free upgrade: move speakers and/or listening position. After that, acoustic treatment will be a much better /£ upgrade that expensive cable.

 

[Overdose]

I'm not going to re-quote and chop that lot up.

However, the test does work and I have used it several times, the caveat is that beyond particularly poor cable, not much difference if anything exists to hear. It would obviously work on all audiophile cables that transform the listening experience.

Regardless of all the aforementioned variables, a marked tonal change will be evident when presented in this manner. To prove the test, the cables could then be swapped to the opposing positions to present the other 'half' of the test.

I'm not sure why you bother setting up the toe in with your speakers so thoroughly though, when the sound in your room changes so dramatically when you move your head so much as a millimeter. Is there any point? Anyone listening outside of the 'sweet spot' must find the sound intolerable.

Besides all that, the OP was interested in cable changes and I gave a simple and workable way to test them, better that, than to spend money on blind faith of someone elses subjective opinions.

Have you any suggestions how else this might easily be achieved?

 

[Overdose]

One last thing...

 

[BenLaw]

I'm not going to re-quote and chop that lot up.

However, the test does work and I have used it several times, the caveat is that beyond particularly poor cable, not much difference if anything exists to hear. It would obviously work on all audiophile cables that transform the listening experience.

Regardless of all the aforementioned variables, a marked tonal change will be evident when presented in this manner. To prove the test, the cables could then be swapped to the opposing positions to present the other 'half' of the test.

I'm not sure why you bother setting up the toe in with your speakers so thoroughly though, when the sound in your room changes so dramatically when you move your head so much as a millimeter. Is there any point? Anyone listening outside of the 'sweet spot' must find the sound intolerable.

Besides all that, the OP was interested in cable changes and I gave a simple and workable way to test them, better that, than to spend money on blind faith of someone elses subjective opinions.

Have you any suggestions how else this might easily be achieved?

Not really. As I say, there will be small differences in your test, because there are far more variables than just the different cable in each channel. The innate cable believer will put these differences down to the cable, so your test won't achieve what it is designed to do (demonstrate there are no / minimal differences in cables).

Personally, I read up on these things for a while and was realistic with myself about what differences I could (not) hear. That's all that can be done really. Maybe I'm cloth-eared, but I've saved myself lots of money.

I know your sweet spot line was only a joke, but fwiw it's a serious point. I listen just outside the sweet spot and ATCs are very good off axis, so it sounds great anywhere on the sofa / in the room. But a small rotation of my head in the sweet spot brings about a bigger change than different cables

 

[relocated]

One last thing...

Now this is much more interesting.

:bounce:

 

[BenLaw]

One last thing...

Look! - that horse is about to make that woman drink, with the power of its MIND!

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Before any cable tests are carried out please also ensure that both ears are functioning at the same level

Thanks

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[BenLaw]

Before any cable tests are carried out please also ensure that both ears are functioning at the same level

Thanks

Rick @ Musicraft

But yes, this was one of my earlier points. You've got it right Rick, and my generic cable is doing sterling work

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Before any cable tests are carried out please also ensure that both ears are functioning at the same level

Thanks

Rick @ Musicraft

But yes, this was one of my earlier points. You've got it right Rick, and my generic cable is doing sterling work

Hi Ben

Sorry as i haven't read the entire thread

Anyway good to hear that you're happy with your speaker cables 8) After all they are state of the art

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[steve_1979]

Hi shafesk

I'll recommend using standard multistrand speaker cables and some basic interconnects.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

A hifi dealer that doesn't try and push audiophile cables. :clap:

Respect to you Musicraft. :cheers:

 

[Anonymous]

Hi shafesk

I'll recommend using standard multistrand speaker cables and some basic interconnects.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

A hifi dealer that doesn't try and push audiophile cables. :clap:

Respect to you Musicraft. :cheers:

+1. Fair play Rick, honesty is the best policy

 

[bigblue235]

Yes, but there are plenty of dealers who do think speaker cables do make a difference, and they're being honest too

As much as I don't think there's much if any differences in these things, I wouldn't use interconnects that are too basic. I've had some shoddy ones in my time. Yes, a wire is a wire and all that, but it needs to be put together properly.

I've never had a dealer 'push' expensive cables on me, quite the opposite, but I'm sure they'd let me buy some if I wanted them. I'm not sure if Rick does the same? He lists a couple of cable companies on his site, and it would be daft not to have something that someone is prepared to buy.