Floorstanders always trump bookshelf speakers?

[plastic penguin]

Why are so many people talking about budgets and £'s in this thread? Are you all obsessed with brand new speakers only?

If so why?

The opening post makes no mention that we have to impose such an artificial limit on the speakers we're comparing.

Remove this "£brand new speakers only" restriction and all talk of you needing to spend so much money to get a bookshelf-beating floorstander goes totally out of the window.

...and in turn, trump standmounts.

There's an awful of trumping going on in this thread. *pardon*

 

[Frank Harvey]

Where's Covenanter? Maybe it was personal...

Positioning aside, it all comes down to how well the speaker has been designed and built, rather than whether it is a standmount or floorstander. Sure, a floorstander will have an advantage with regards to cabinet volume (presuming same size and number of drivers) and therefore bass extension, but insufficiently designed, a well designed standmount could well outperform it in almost every way - possibly even bass extension!

A previous post mentioned not considering floorstanders under the £2k mark. I would say that is slightly excessive (personal preference etc), but I agree to a point - I'd be considering more expensive floorstanders to compete with cheaper standmounts. Under £2,000 there is a handful of floorstanders I'd purchase for my own use - but many more standmounts. When you have standmount speakers like Sonus Faber's Toy, KEF's LS50, Q Acoustics' Concept 20, ATC's SCM7 and the like, you have to then be looking at least the £1,500/2,000 mark to find a competing floorstander. By "competing", I mean retaining the treble and midrange characteristics whilst providing better bass extension.

That's not to say of course that any £1,000 standmount is going to beat a £2,000 floorstander, or even some £1,500 ones - it just comes back to how well they've been designed/built. Then again, those that prefer more bass quantity or presence will more than likely prefer a bigger floorstander for their money than an equivalently priced, leaner sounding standmount, regardless as to whether the standmount might be technically superior. They can differ enough to generalise that one person might prefer one type over the other.

 

[lindsayt]

David, are you aware what sort of floorstanders real people have bought with real money totalling less than £1000? £500? £100? Would you like me to give you one or two extreme examples that blows your "budget is important" argument right out of the water? I'd say that knowledge plus being in the right place at the right time trumps budget.

 

[Frank Harvey]

As always, there's too many variables to state specifics.

The main thing I take from this thread is why Covenanter hasn't appeared griping about self promotion...

 

[Frank Harvey]

David, are you aware what sort of floorstanders real people have bought with real money totalling less than £1000? £500? £100? Would you like me to give you one or two extreme examples that blows your "budget is important" argument right out of the water? I'd say that knowledge plus being in the right place at the right time trumps budget.

Feel free to state whatever you want, but I have been careful to state that personal preferences means this argument is one that will never be won/proven. I've tried stating some rough guides, but there's always too many variables to be absolute about these things.

 

[ID.]

David, are you aware what sort of floorstanders real people have bought with real money totalling less than £1000? £500? £100? Would you like me to give you one or two extreme examples that blows your "budget is important" argument right out of the water? I'd say that knowledge plus being in the right place at the right time trumps budget.

Feel free to state whatever you want, but I have been careful to state that personal preferences means this argument is one that will never be won/proven. I've tried stating some rough guides, but there's always too many variables to be absolute about these things.

I suspect that this is going to go into the usual lindsayt territory (and please let me know if I'm wrong) of vintage speakers, which now sell at those prices due to their age. I wonder what the equivalent real world prices adjusted for inflation would be. I think lindsayt has a completely valid point, and people overlook older kit for various reasons such as concerns about reliability and preconceptions that newer automatically means better. Then again, from what I can recall, some of his speaker suggestions do require a rather generous amount of space, but I'm sure they sound awesome in the right room. Probably not a great choice for my shoe-box Tokyo apartment.

 

[bluedroog]

Budget is important to mention because that is one of the biggest dictating variables most of us work to, even in the second hand market prices are generally comparable. It is worth mentioning a trend I noticed among young novices, they ask for advice on floor standing speakers and have a budget of £100. My advice would always be the same, forget about floor standers, any thing in budget is possibly a largish driver with not much going on behind it in a poorly braced, chipboard box and almost certainly sounds awful.

Get yourself a little pair of Gale’s or similar from RS for £50 and you’ll have something far, far better sounding.

 

[Neptune_Twilight]

There are resonance issues that need to be addressed with a large floor-stander that simply cannot exist with smaller cabinets due the the physical size of the things - I've used floor standers on the cheaper end of mid price & have yet to have been satisfied with any of them.

I've always thought though basically it's down to room size? - I had a pair of the original Castle Durhams that I think were some of the most honest sounding speakers I've ever heard but then moved to a house where the lounge was over twice the size & they were hopelessly lost in there with the bass small driver & low power handling which is when I moved to floor-standers some 14 years ago, one pair I did like was a pair of inexpensive Missions that appeared to be floor-standers but I found out later were actually a small cabinet the drivers were in that was totally sealed off from the rest of the unit, I’ve forgotten the model but they died because Mission didn’t glue the baffle to the cabinet properly & my repair was functional though not aesthetically pleasing so my single nephew had them.

I have in the dining room two feet from my ears a pair of JBL Control 1's as a PC system that sound outstanding in here & to even contemplate having large speakers in here would be out of the question & ridiculous, plus we would have to do away with having a dining table & my wife would divorce me.

I do think in the past decade or so there are affordable (for me) stand-mounts with higher power handing etc that sound good even in a largish room but you have to add on the cost of a decent pairs of stands (£200+), but overall for unknown reasons I prefer stand-mount speakers & are unlikely ever to use floor-standers again after recent auditioning unless I move into Chatsworth house, which is unlikely or have a really large lounge, again unlikely but generally listen to music at lowish volumes.

Though we are all different & I doubt there is a right & wrong in this just like the analogue v digital threads (there hasn’t been one lately, I miss those) *diablo**diablo**diablo*

 

[Rethep]

I think in the end, floorstanders are more balanced.

Standmounts need more of the roomacoustics to help their bass. And even then they sound less full, in my experience. But standmounts can sound more punchy/tight in the bass. Less deep but more rythmic.

I chose for the fuller sound of a floorstander.

 

[Neptune_Twilight]

Standmounts need more of the roomacoustics to help their bass. And even then they sound less full, in my experience.

The RX2's I have need no room acoustics to improve the bass, they actually need lots of room to breath (more actually that the RX6/8 floorstanders) which is why I feel that things are different to what they were some years ago and it's not one or the other.

 

[James7]

It's true that small standmounts will struggle to fill big rooms, and true too that only floorstanders can really be used to implement electrostatic technology, large drivers, etc.

Nevertheless, with conventional box speakers at least there are so many inherent difficulties to overcome with big speakers - multiple drivers and the resulting complexities of crossover designs, etc - that while at lower budgets I would suggest standmounts are the way to go because floorstanders that overcome these challenges generally do so only at a cost, even with large budgets I think there is a lot to be said to still go for standmounts, and look to a separate subwoofer to help boost bass weight and extension. Of course, buying a pair of standmounts and adding a sub brings its own challenges, not least integration, finding a sub that will 'keep up' with the speakers, etc, but my feeling is with a budget of £5000, say, or even £10000, unless you are going to go the electrostatic route, in which case you may well need a sub anyway, either separate or built-in like the Martin Logan hybrids, you should at least consider standmount/sub combinations alongside floorstanders.

 

[ISAC69]

Where's Covenanter? Maybe it was personal...

Positioning aside, it all comes down to how well the speaker has been designed and built, rather than whether it is a standmount or floorstander. Sure, a floorstander will have an advantage with regards to cabinet volume (presuming same size and number of drivers) and therefore bass extension, but insufficiently designed, a well designed standmount could well outperform it in almost every way - possibly even bass extension!

A previous post mentioned not considering floorstanders under the £2k mark. I would say that is slightly excessive (personal preference etc), but I agree to a point - I'd be considering more expensive floorstanders to compete with cheaper standmounts. Under £2,000 there is a handful of floorstanders I'd purchase for my own use - but many more standmounts. When you have standmount speakers like Sonus Faber's Toy, KEF's LS50, Q Acoustics' Concept 20, ATC's SCM7 and the like, you have to then be looking at least the £1,500/2,000 mark to find a competing floorstander. By "competing", I mean retaining the treble and midrange characteristics whilst providing better bass extension.

That's not to say of course that any £1,000 standmount is going to beat a £2,000 floorstander, or even some £1,500 ones - it just comes back to how well they've been designed/built. Then again, those that prefer more bass quantity or presence will more than likely prefer a bigger floorstander for their money than an equivalently priced, leaner sounding standmount, regardless as to whether the standmount might be technically superior. They can differ enough to generalise that one person might prefer one type over the other.

Ecxellent comment as usual David *ok*

Couldn't agree more standmounts can be equal to floorstanders if you are willing to pay around 2K pounds or more for soeakers such as the Proac Studio D2 , B&W 805D , PMC Twenty 22 act.