Alec
Well-known member
You probably expect the odd bit of verbal, tho you shouldnt have to. But those guilty of those physical assaults should, in an ideal world, be named, shamed, charged and sacked.
chebby
Well-known member
idc:Clare Newsome:...... We've been physically (yes, really) and verbally assaulted by manufacturers unhappy with our findings and it hasn't affected later reviews of products from those companies (i've handed out Awards to firms whom literally spat in my face previously).....
Wow, thats quite a revelation.
Well, these people are business people (never the best behaved or 'moral' of folk by normal standards) and not highly trained PR folk or posessed of a background in the Diplomatic service! Some of them came up from the 'shop-floor' with a good idea and finances secured on their family homes.
Everything they have and all their employees jobs and day-to-day well-being could be on the line (for a small company) so I can understand why passions might run high if a crucial review goes badly for a key product that everyone is depending upon to feed the kids and pay off the loans and claw back the R&D budget. Moreso if the company is a 'one trick pony' with a small product range or even just the one product.
Even so there is no excuse for physical violence.
Wow, thats quite a revelation.
Well, these people are business people (never the best behaved or 'moral' of folk by normal standards) and not highly trained PR folk or posessed of a background in the Diplomatic service! Some of them came up from the 'shop-floor' with a good idea and finances secured on their family homes.
Everything they have and all their employees jobs and day-to-day well-being could be on the line (for a small company) so I can understand why passions might run high if a crucial review goes badly for a key product that everyone is depending upon to feed the kids and pay off the loans and claw back the R&D budget. Moreso if the company is a 'one trick pony' with a small product range or even just the one product.
Even so there is no excuse for physical violence.
Cable Lover:
If you're not listening to the AVI's because of Ashley's postings on various fora, you are cutting off your nose to spite your face. They are that good. On the other hand, if you dislike Ashley that much, you wouldn't listen with an open mind anyway.
Seeing as this came directly after my comments, I think I made it pretty clear why the limited functionality offered by the ADM 9.1s didn't suit me well. As for Ashley's postings, I know when to detach the chat from the sound quality on offer. My point is, he might be the company man, but he doesn't serve his potential market well by his comments at times, or his hypocrisy.
Undoubtedly he has indeed struck a chord with an awful lot of people. Quite dischordant I am inclined to think with a few others.
EDIT: Thought their Lab series amps a few years (five?) were very impressive, but I wouldn't part myself from the money thanks to his attitude; it's not cutting my nose off to spite my face either. It's making the choice not to line the pockets of someone who's attitude is directed against people like me when he's really in no position to make such a comment, yet happy to use the term "audiophile" when it comes to peddling his products...like I say, happy to hear you like his company's equipment, but there as plenty of other firms out there producing superb kit and doing it rather better too I feel.
If you're not listening to the AVI's because of Ashley's postings on various fora, you are cutting off your nose to spite your face. They are that good. On the other hand, if you dislike Ashley that much, you wouldn't listen with an open mind anyway.
Seeing as this came directly after my comments, I think I made it pretty clear why the limited functionality offered by the ADM 9.1s didn't suit me well. As for Ashley's postings, I know when to detach the chat from the sound quality on offer. My point is, he might be the company man, but he doesn't serve his potential market well by his comments at times, or his hypocrisy.
Undoubtedly he has indeed struck a chord with an awful lot of people. Quite dischordant I am inclined to think with a few others.
EDIT: Thought their Lab series amps a few years (five?) were very impressive, but I wouldn't part myself from the money thanks to his attitude; it's not cutting my nose off to spite my face either. It's making the choice not to line the pockets of someone who's attitude is directed against people like me when he's really in no position to make such a comment, yet happy to use the term "audiophile" when it comes to peddling his products...like I say, happy to hear you like his company's equipment, but there as plenty of other firms out there producing superb kit and doing it rather better too I feel.
Oh yes, absolutely; I have as little time for that myself, but it's case by case. If Ash wants to rip the whatever out of the community who put his products where they are, that's fine by me, but it's hyporcisy to then start using the term "audiophile" to sell his wares when he's spent enough time and energy taking a pitch at someone who feels they can detect a difference in sound to their ears using product or source A viz product or source B. If Ash can prove they can't hear this (which he can;t no matter what he says) then step up to the plate and do it, else let people be.
Not sur eabout the the HDX, but the Uniti seems worth the £2k and likewise the Aura Premier I referenced earlier in this thread for similar money. I'm sure the AVI gear is worth the cash too for what it does and for the right market, but it doesn't suit my needs.
Not sur eabout the the HDX, but the Uniti seems worth the £2k and likewise the Aura Premier I referenced earlier in this thread for similar money. I'm sure the AVI gear is worth the cash too for what it does and for the right market, but it doesn't suit my needs.
chebby
Well-known member
pluto78:Same with NAIM, I'd love for someone there to directly tell me how on earth their products cost so much such as the HDX. But just my opinion. I've probably upset some people here saying this....
As someone who owns a Naim system it does not upset me that some people dislike their products or question the value of items like the HDX.
There is a thread on another forum about the (present) inability to backup the HDs in the HDX. That's really, really, bad because despite the mirror RAID setup of the two internal HDs, an external event could easily take out both in one go. Hopefully Naim are working on an imminent (and cost free) fix for their customers.
I shake my head at times at the extreme Naim 'fanboy' element just as much as I do at the antics of any product 'cult followers' whether they are Apple or Naim or AVI or Arcam followers or whatever.
It happens in photography and for all I know refrigerators and toasters may have cult followings too! It is probably inevitable given that humans are gregarious and like to 'belong'. We are after all 'clubbable' (although maybe some of the more rabid followers, of what are just consumer durables, should simply be clubbed!
)
As someone who owns a Naim system it does not upset me that some people dislike their products or question the value of items like the HDX.
There is a thread on another forum about the (present) inability to backup the HDs in the HDX. That's really, really, bad because despite the mirror RAID setup of the two internal HDs, an external event could easily take out both in one go. Hopefully Naim are working on an imminent (and cost free) fix for their customers.
I shake my head at times at the extreme Naim 'fanboy' element just as much as I do at the antics of any product 'cult followers' whether they are Apple or Naim or AVI or Arcam followers or whatever.
It happens in photography and for all I know refrigerators and toasters may have cult followings too! It is probably inevitable given that humans are gregarious and like to 'belong'. We are after all 'clubbable' (although maybe some of the more rabid followers, of what are just consumer durables, should simply be clubbed!
idc
Well-known member
pluto78:......... I find the fact that Ashley James responds in person about his claims seems to bother people but in my opinion at least he's got the nerve to face his critics......
Its the way he tells them. Its Ash's way or the highway. He was very sensitive to criticism and would only answer questions that suited him in a way that suited him. I dont agree that really means he has the nerve to face his critics.
pluto78:......... unlike people like Russ Andrews who hides behind his wild claims hidden amongst pages of adverts in magazines........
Sorry to disagree again, but RA produces various pamphlets and newsletters which contain explanations of how his products work. There is also information on the website. Whether you agree or disagree is another matter, but the information is out there. So I dont see how he is hiding anything, you have just not found it.
I have and will contiune to buy RA products and the AVI 9.1s are top of my shopping list when I expand from headfi only listening. I have the hide of a rhino and watch with interest as others get themselves tied up in knots over certain products. Another two products that get people in a bit of a tissy at times are Bose and B&O. Thinking out loud a common factor is that RA, Bose and B&O are all seen as overpriced and not necessarily of great SQ than many cheaper products. AVI appear to polarise opinion purely because of the owners attitude.
Its the way he tells them. Its Ash's way or the highway. He was very sensitive to criticism and would only answer questions that suited him in a way that suited him. I dont agree that really means he has the nerve to face his critics.
pluto78:......... unlike people like Russ Andrews who hides behind his wild claims hidden amongst pages of adverts in magazines........
Sorry to disagree again, but RA produces various pamphlets and newsletters which contain explanations of how his products work. There is also information on the website. Whether you agree or disagree is another matter, but the information is out there. So I dont see how he is hiding anything, you have just not found it.
I have and will contiune to buy RA products and the AVI 9.1s are top of my shopping list when I expand from headfi only listening. I have the hide of a rhino and watch with interest as others get themselves tied up in knots over certain products. Another two products that get people in a bit of a tissy at times are Bose and B&O. Thinking out loud a common factor is that RA, Bose and B&O are all seen as overpriced and not necessarily of great SQ than many cheaper products. AVI appear to polarise opinion purely because of the owners attitude.
chebby
Well-known member
idc:.... a common factor is that RA, Bose and B&O are all seen as overpriced and not necessarily of great SQ than many cheaper products.
I cannot comment on RA or Bose, but I was dispelled of any myths about Bang & Olufsen sound quality after hearing it.
If I ever win that elusive lottery jackpot then Naim would certainly get a £K or two for a naimuniti, BUT B&O would get the 'blank cheque' to install my AV system.
I cannot comment on RA or Bose, but I was dispelled of any myths about Bang & Olufsen sound quality after hearing it.
If I ever win that elusive lottery jackpot then Naim would certainly get a £K or two for a naimuniti, BUT B&O would get the 'blank cheque' to install my AV system.
John Duncan
Well-known member
Clare Newsome:i've handed out Awards to firms whom literally spat in my face previously
Was it the Gobham GAC-1 review that did it?
Was it the Gobham GAC-1 review that did it?
I've been dragged across a room and pinned to the wall by a manufacturer at a WHF Awards event in the past.
Not to mention those manufacturers who continue to badmouth me online for reasons I know not why, and the one who said they wouldn't submit a product to the magazine for review unless I was fired first.
Bit sad, really...
Not to mention those manufacturers who continue to badmouth me online for reasons I know not why, and the one who said they wouldn't submit a product to the magazine for review unless I was fired first.
Bit sad, really...
Come on man, spill!! We'll not tell a soul. It's just you, me and a few others on here, the rest are on Ebay for the next hour...
Messiah
Well-known member
Nick21:Messiah do you think that either of the following would be a good cd transport for the 9.1's Nad 545, marantz 6003 or cambridge 650c. I am also thinking of the Onkyo ND-si for my ipod classic.
1st of all I can certainly recommend the Onkyo ND-S1. Does what it says on the tin and will enable you to bypass the internal DAC and utilise the DAC in the ADMs. Plus instant access to the many, many files you can keep on the iPod. Great flexibility and my preferred source.
As for the CD player I cannot see that there would be much preference for any of them, in theory. Personally I use my DVD player as a transport. Do you already have a player you could use?? I would try to utilise a current player rather then buy another dedicated one.
1st of all I can certainly recommend the Onkyo ND-S1. Does what it says on the tin and will enable you to bypass the internal DAC and utilise the DAC in the ADMs. Plus instant access to the many, many files you can keep on the iPod. Great flexibility and my preferred source.
As for the CD player I cannot see that there would be much preference for any of them, in theory. Personally I use my DVD player as a transport. Do you already have a player you could use?? I would try to utilise a current player rather then buy another dedicated one.
Andrew Everard:They know who they are...
worry not Mr. E, you are not alone on that (afaik) and in theway, it does prove that an honesty of your reviews.
worry not Mr. E, you are not alone on that (afaik) and in theway, it does prove that an honesty of your reviews.
Andrew Everard:
I've been dragged across a room and pinned to the wall by a manufacturer at a WHF Awards event in the past.
Not to mention those manufacturers who continue to badmouth me online for reasons I know not why, and the one who said they wouldn't submit a product to the magazine for review unless I was fired first.
Bit sad, really...
Is it too late to withdraw my job app at WHF? I didn't realize the job was so dangerous... Maybe I'll just go join the Military instead...
Seriously though, that kind of behavior is ridiculous and WHF really should consider banning manufacturers who physically assault WHF team members... AND having a list of Banned manufacturers on the website (no need to give details of the actual events, as it will be sufficiently shameful that their name is on the list)...
I've been dragged across a room and pinned to the wall by a manufacturer at a WHF Awards event in the past.
Not to mention those manufacturers who continue to badmouth me online for reasons I know not why, and the one who said they wouldn't submit a product to the magazine for review unless I was fired first.
Bit sad, really...
Is it too late to withdraw my job app at WHF? I didn't realize the job was so dangerous... Maybe I'll just go join the Military instead...
Seriously though, that kind of behavior is ridiculous and WHF really should consider banning manufacturers who physically assault WHF team members... AND having a list of Banned manufacturers on the website (no need to give details of the actual events, as it will be sufficiently shameful that their name is on the list)...
Alec
Well-known member
Hope they hurt themself in the process andrew.
I'll happily act as bodyguard in return for baked goods and unwanted A/V kit. Cant walk, but ive got girth im intimidtingly wide.
EDIT - i.n.t.i.m.i.d.a.t.i.n.g.l.y even.
I'll happily act as bodyguard in return for baked goods and unwanted A/V kit. Cant walk, but ive got girth im intimidtingly wide.
EDIT - i.n.t.i.m.i.d.a.t.i.n.g.l.y even.
idc
Well-known member
Andrew Everard:
I've been dragged across a room and pinned to the wall by a manufacturer at a WHF Awards event in the past.
Not to mention those manufacturers who continue to badmouth me online for reasons I know not why, and the one who said they wouldn't submit a product to the magazine for review unless I was fired first.
Bit sad, really...
Hats off to you guys, particularly since you will not name and shame. The actions of a yob employee or company manager cannot really be held against a whole company, its other employees and products.
I've been dragged across a room and pinned to the wall by a manufacturer at a WHF Awards event in the past.
Not to mention those manufacturers who continue to badmouth me online for reasons I know not why, and the one who said they wouldn't submit a product to the magazine for review unless I was fired first.
Bit sad, really...
Hats off to you guys, particularly since you will not name and shame. The actions of a yob employee or company manager cannot really be held against a whole company, its other employees and products.
idc:The actions of a yob employee or company manager
cannot really be held against a whole company, its other employees and
products.
Which was (an aspect of) my original point. Our view of a product is based on the performance-per-pound of that product against its rivals. Not what its manufacturer does/says, or is indeed said by others about that manufacturer.
cannot really be held against a whole company, its other employees and
products.
Which was (an aspect of) my original point. Our view of a product is based on the performance-per-pound of that product against its rivals. Not what its manufacturer does/says, or is indeed said by others about that manufacturer.
To the OP. Although mentioning ADM9.1s on here is rather unpopular (mainly as people suspect advocates of the product to be Ashley James himself) I will post my opinion.
Firstly, I agree with Clare, you should seek to listen to any kit you are thinking of buying, if you can. Secondly, my comments below are just MY opinion.
I used to have a fairly expensive separate/passive system, which at the time I really enjoyed. I then moved to an active system (9.1) and I prefer it. So in answer to your original question 'can they be better' - yes they can. However, not everyone will agree and they will also not sound better than every separates system out there. It's best to listen to them if you can, if you think they're better, great, if not, try something else.
I will say, I probably never fully exploited the potential of my old OB1's, as I was running just one amp (I have heard they sound fantastic tri-amped) though this would have cost me a lot more also.
P.S - I find the actives more wife friendly in comparison also, as the system as a whole takes up less of our lounge
Firstly, I agree with Clare, you should seek to listen to any kit you are thinking of buying, if you can. Secondly, my comments below are just MY opinion.
I used to have a fairly expensive separate/passive system, which at the time I really enjoyed. I then moved to an active system (9.1) and I prefer it. So in answer to your original question 'can they be better' - yes they can. However, not everyone will agree and they will also not sound better than every separates system out there. It's best to listen to them if you can, if you think they're better, great, if not, try something else.
I will say, I probably never fully exploited the potential of my old OB1's, as I was running just one amp (I have heard they sound fantastic tri-amped) though this would have cost me a lot more also.
P.S - I find the actives more wife friendly in comparison also, as the system as a whole takes up less of our lounge
If I might add my own thoughts to this thread - until the end of last year I owned an almost all Linn system, LP12, Dino phono stage, Linn Ikemi, AV5103 pre-amp, Linn Klout and Linn Tukans. After years of sterling service, my Ikemi started to shows signs of mis-reading CD's and my Tukans blew a fuse that could not be easily replaced.
In addition we were expecting our first child and I decided to look seriously at a replacement for the existing system. My wife found the AV5103 user un-friendly and was fed up of a cd player that refused to play cd's. A system may sound stunning but if it is not used it is a waste.
So I contacted Ashley at AVI and spent a day listening to my own music on the ADM9.1's (with or without the sub) and had a very pleasent time. Ashley brought me lunch in his local.
Needless to say, my daughter Alice is now 7 months old and ADM9.1's are in constant use by both myself and my wife. I use an Apple TV and stream music from my itunes library.
So how does it sound? Very different to the previous Linn system. Female vocals sound effortless, orchestral music seems to have more room to breath but the sound did take some adjusting to. The best advice I can offer is forget the ramblings on the internet and go and have a listen. Ashley is very welcoming to vistors and will allow you to make your own mind up.
In addition we were expecting our first child and I decided to look seriously at a replacement for the existing system. My wife found the AV5103 user un-friendly and was fed up of a cd player that refused to play cd's. A system may sound stunning but if it is not used it is a waste.
So I contacted Ashley at AVI and spent a day listening to my own music on the ADM9.1's (with or without the sub) and had a very pleasent time. Ashley brought me lunch in his local.
Needless to say, my daughter Alice is now 7 months old and ADM9.1's are in constant use by both myself and my wife. I use an Apple TV and stream music from my itunes library.
So how does it sound? Very different to the previous Linn system. Female vocals sound effortless, orchestral music seems to have more room to breath but the sound did take some adjusting to. The best advice I can offer is forget the ramblings on the internet and go and have a listen. Ashley is very welcoming to vistors and will allow you to make your own mind up.
I think at the end of the day, you need to compare apples with apples .... from what I have read on several forums, The AVI is hard to beat at the price when comparing to brand new seperates
I will keep my old traditional seperates system and continue to upgrade the components as money becomes available ... However, will have a very close look at the AVi system as a second bedroom system in the future ... Have not auditioned it yet, but will definately in the near future
I will keep my old traditional seperates system and continue to upgrade the components as money becomes available ... However, will have a very close look at the AVi system as a second bedroom system in the future ... Have not auditioned it yet, but will definately in the near future
What is the guarantee period on AVIs? I presume traditional speakers have a guarantee period of 5 years and life-span much higher compare to active speakers which are more vulnerable due to more electronics put in, so I guess one decision factor in buying traditional vs active speakers is life-span and guarantee period
Messiah I don't have a source with an optical out,so need to buy something. I have seen Blue-ray players for £175 in Asda today that should do as a transport!!! Or will I gain more from a dedicated cd player. Also I live near Bedford where is the best place to get a demo, and is it worth getting the sub also (listening room is 35'x14' but with a large chimney in the center of the room. thanks for the advise so far. Nick
one off - well before I parted with any cash. I know Ashley offers the same to anyone else who makes the trip.
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