Does AVI ADM9.1 beats a traditional system costing same amount.

[Ajani]

NigelF:
I know there has been lot of discussions on these speakers and also controversies on who is runing the show

, but I do know WHF gave 5 stars to previous version of the same speakers, but from that star ratings it was not clear if ratings were purely given to speakers and it will beat any passive speakers in the same price bracket, or taking into account it has built-in DAC and AMP, so if we go for a traditional setup with AMP, DAC & Speakers costing same amount will ADM still beat it for e.g. a combo of Roksan Kandy, DAC Magic and B&W speakers or similarly price 5 star setup.

Pls. no AVI bashing just require simple and honest answer from those who already own or have demoed the ADMs or WHF editor for clarification on question above related to rating given.

An Active speaker will generally be better than amp/speaker combo for the same price, due to effective cost cutting (no need to waste money on a separate chassis for the amp, speaker cables, etc) and throwing in a DAC means no chassis or cables for a seperate DAC either... and you get the benefit of real bi-amping (instead of bi-wiring as so many in this hobby do)... HOWEVER, there are some real trade-offs: you generally get a reduced feature count (limited inputs, etc...) and you are pretty much stuck with the sound "as is"... so there is no experimenting with different amps to see if they will bring out the best from your speakers...

So if you really like the AVI sound, then I doubt you'll find an amp/speaker/dac combo that compares with it for the same price... but if you don't like the sound or want to be able to upgrade, then you best look elsewhere...

Like most of the other posters, I think you really need to audition as much as possible...

 

[Anonymous]

I can only compare my AVI ADM 9.1's to previous kit owned and auditioned.

I used to own NAD C315BEE and C325BEE and MA S1 speakers. I changed those for Cyrus 8vs2, CD8x, 2 x PSX-R and Proac Studio 110's. The value of the Cyrus/Proac combo at retail is something like £3,000 - £3,700, not including foo cables. The AVI's are far in advance of that combination for speed, clarity and sound quality. But only in my opinion. You may feel differently.

I paid £1k for my AVI's, all cables were included, except the need for an optical cable. As digital cables can't sound different, you only need to spend peanuts on an effective one.

I will buy a sub when budget allows, from AVI, because the sub is specifically designed to compiment the ADM9.1 package.

I think in order to better the AVI's, you would indeed have to spend a boat load of cash. I can't conceive of looking at alternatives to AVI, but if I did, I wouldn't go back to passive speakers.

Regarding the 320kbps vs CD quality debate. I run my music via a Squeezebox. All my CD's are ripped to lossless FLAC. They sound very good. I also listen to internet radio at 320kbps. Depending on the music, it can also sound very good, approaching, if not on a par with CD quality. Bear in mind that whether or not CD sounds better than 320kbps MP3 will partly depend on the quantity of data being sent. Talk radio sounds good at 30-40kbps because there is little data contained in the signal. If music isn't very complex, it can sound as good as CD, even though it's MP3 because there isn't much data there.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Cable Lover what are you using as a transport? I rang Avi today to ask what they recomend and was told any cheep dvd will do(Ineed a cd playing so the little woman can play her Elvis and Bette Midler)as long as it has a toshlink conection.

 

[plastic penguin]

Purely by nature, active speakers rendered useless if, like me, you have heaps of analogue equipement. I love the innovative concept of active speakers, but it's far from an ideal solution for all audiophiles....

 

[Messiah]

plastic penguin:Purely by nature, active speakers rendered useless if, like me, you have heaps of analogue equipement. I love the innovative concept of active speakers, but it's far from an ideal solution for all audiophiles....

The ADMs and active speakers in general are only speakers with built in amps (as I am sure you are aware ). So I'm sure most could be used with a pre-amp which will cater for all the analogue sources.

 

[plastic penguin]

I agree totally - you could add a pre-amp and you can 'this' and connect 'that', but doesn't negate the whole concept of active speakers? Surely, they were designed with the aim of reducing "boxes" or space saving. based on that, and you have TT's, Tuners etc. wouldn't you be better off with a conventional set-up?

 

[Anonymous]

Nick21:Hi Cable Lover what are you using as a transport? I rang Avi today to ask what they recomend and was told any cheep dvd will do(Ineed a cd playing so the little woman can play her Elvis and Bette Midler)as long as it has a toshlink conection.

Hi Nick,

I sold off all my kit!!! I just ripped all my CD's to a HDD. I play my files through a Logitech Squeezebox Classic.

 

[Anonymous]

plastic penguin:I agree totally - you could add a pre-amp and you can 'this' and connect 'that', but doesn't negate the whole concept of active speakers? Surely, they were designed with the aim of reducing "boxes" or space saving. based on that, and you have TT's, Tuners etc. wouldn't you be better off with a conventional set-up?

What kind of equipment do not have a digital output these days? I can only think of turntables.

The ADMs have one analog input. If you need more, there's switch boxes... You might even get one with remote control. And the switches inside a decent switch box are just as good as the switches in a budget preamp.

The big idea with active speakers like the ADM's, is getting rid of anything that adds distortion, like passive filters. Also what's saved on boxes etc are put into more powerful amps, that control the speakers better -- and thus avoid even more distortion. There's no magic in the ADM's; it's just straight engineering.

 

[plastic penguin]

Fahnsen:

plastic penguin:I agree totally - you could add a pre-amp and you can 'this' and connect 'that', but doesn't negate the whole concept of active speakers? Surely, they were designed with the aim of reducing "boxes" or space saving. based on that, and you have TT's, Tuners etc. wouldn't you be better off with a conventional set-up?

What kind of equipment do not have a digital output these days? I can only think of turntables.

The ADMs have one analog input. If you need more, there's switch boxes... You might even get one with remote control. And the switches inside a decent switch box are just as good as the switches in a budget preamp.

The big idea with active speakers like the ADM's, is getting rid of anything that adds distortion, like passive filters. Also what's saved on boxes etc are put into more powerful amps, that control the speakers better -- and thus avoid even more distortion. There's no magic in the ADM's; it's just straight engineering.

Then you add on FM tuner, TT, DVD, VHS as well as CDP, as I said.....

 

[chebby]

pluto78:You cant take your £1k cd player to bed.....

I think joel used to...

 

[the record spot]

I'm sure they're very good products, well constructed, to the best standard they can fit within their budget. trouble is when you tire of the sound - and hey, it happens! - you need to change the lot and not just one element. That's what works against them for me really. Still, many people like them, but the corporate attitude sucks and that is an even bigger turnoff. I get superb sound from my current kit - plus, I don't need a sub to make the sound from my speakers get that extra oomph. Something of a drawback with the AVI kit I feel.

 

[chebby]

 

[chebby]

 

[John Duncan]

Can anybody find a quote on this forum saying the ADM9.1s are rubbish? I think everybody who has them or has heard them has eulogised at length about their merits...

 

[the record spot]

pluto78:

Im happy that your happy with your sound but I find the argumentative people (not you 🙂) don't realise people like me looking for a new hifi can see through the corporate attitude you speak of. It didn't bother me and I fished through and got what I wanted.

Too many people and not referring to you Sir, seem to only post to justify why they have bought a seperate system costing more and failing to see the benfits.

The hi end market I feel has twisted people into believing that the higher the price the better the product. This is untrue I think and its a shame. For me I think what made me change my opinon was seeing the inside of a NAIM HDX and realising that the components could be put together for about 4k less! Sure the box was great but truthfully it made think about hi end prices and whether they are justified.
Also I dont think ill need a sub the bass sounds fantastic to me. Gary Moore's album just rocks right now and the bass guitar sounds great.

Apologies if my comment rambled on using your comment as a quote. I know a lot doesnt apply to what you said.

No offence taken; I used to have a lot of time for the company's products (their Lab Series amps, the Neutron range of speakers, etc.) but time listening to Ashley, or more accurately reading his comments on here, some of which were informative, some just snooty, some uninformed (I've yet to see how you can measure how the ear can hear something and the subsequent transference of that to the brain - we know the physical mechanics, but the processing of the message is a different matter), so his claims around what people do or do not hear are bunkum and that leaves me cold looking at their gear with unbiased eyes. Sounds crazy I know but they lost me with their hypocrisy (see their website for when it's acceptable to use the term "audiophile" in relation to flogging their kit and when it's not when it comes to what one claims to hear).

(Not seeking to be argumentative here, this is just my take on what I've seen from the firm. Like I say, I'm happy for anyone who owns their 9.1s or 9.0s and enjoys them).

As it is, my system would have cost around £1100 for the amp and speakers, and I guess partnering that with a higher end amp (as I plan to) would push it up to the £1700-£2000 worth mark, so the kind of target market for the 9.1 system.

In the end, it comes down to the flexibility separates offers me as well as excellent sound quality. One box solutions like the AVI offer me too little of that. On the other hand, one box solutions like the NaimUniti offer more functionality minus the speakers. I could live with that.

My ideal one box system would be the Aura Note. Still need to add the speakers I know, but that's where my cash would (and may yet in time) go. SACD functionality, stunning design, less than £2k - majestic piece of kit and apparently sounds fantastic.

 

[Alec]

JohnDuncan:Can anybody find a quote on this forum saying the ADM9.1s are rubbish? I think everybody who has them or has heard them has eulogised at length about their merits...

Some of us have taken great pains not to eulogise that much.

 

[John Duncan]

al7478:
JohnDuncan:Can anybody find a quote on this forum saying the ADM9.1s are rubbish? I think everybody who has them or has heard them has eulogised at length about their merits...

Some of us have taken great pains not to eulogise that much.

I meant in a good way.

 

[Alec]

JohnDuncan:al7478:

JohnDuncan:Can anybody find a quote on this forum saying the ADM9.1s are rubbish? I think everybody who has them or has heard them has eulogised at length about their merits...

Some of us have taken great pains not to eulogise that much.

I meant in a good way.

Oh, I know. I may have given the wrong impression there.

Mind, im also just not very good at eulogising.

 

[the record spot]

pluto78:I was thinking about the addition of a sub comment and actually I see this as a massive advantage of the 9.1's. The sub would add in those lower Hz notes seamlessly in a clean and non distorted way that an active can and not via a ported distorted, coloured way that say a hi end passive floorstander could. So really its a win win situation and a no brainer in my opinion (note my opinion guys, not a criticism). With the sub its a total of under 2 grand. Thats what I would of paid just for the Spendor A6's had I gone the class A sound I mentioned earlier.

I've always just thought that a speaker should be able to do good bass without sounding too lean it needs a sub! I guess that's not necessarily a shortcoming of the 9.1s alone, too many boxes out there today are shy on the bass front. I like realism too, but it's all about balance as I've found. I don't mind that the 752s have what are in reality small front ports (and I mean small, I often wonder why Mission didn't just go for a closed box rather than put the ones in they did), the reality is they are superb speakers. Distorted is not a word I would employ in listening to music through them.

 

[Anonymous]

Some points:

The speakers do bass pretty well. Being active, they do it differently from passive speakers, i.e. they strive for accuracy over boom. I have no doubt though, that if I added a sub, the bass would sound truly accurate.

If you're not listening to the AVI's because of Ashley's postings on various fora, you are cutting off your nose to spite your face. They are that good. On the other hand, if you dislike Ashley that much, you wouldn't listen with an open mind anyway.

Lastly, regarding review samples, if you head over to the ADM9 club on Facebook, you'll see why he doesn't do them. Just Google "facebook ADM9" and look at the discussion threads. It's one of the recent ones, I can't remember which right now.

Actually, if what he is saying is true, I would say his marketing, and the rationale for the qualities of his products over traditional hi fi foo, have struck a chord with an awful lot of people.....

 

[Clare Newsome]

Sadly what Ashley says about the media - certainly when it comes to WHF - is more typically conjecture than truth.

I don't blame him - it suits his marketing message - and certainly don't hold it against AVI or its to-date excellent products. We've been physically (yes, really) and verbally assaulted by manufacturers unhappy with our findings and it hasn't affected later reviews of products from those companies (i've handed out Awards to firms whom literally spat in my face previously). We're mature enough to divorce individual reaction from product reality!

There are plenty of great products from non-traditional companies that we have been happy to celebrate - like those five-star ADM9s.....

Still look forward to reviewing the AVI ADM 9.1s

 

[idc]

Clare Newsome:

...... We've been physically (yes, really) and verbally assaulted by manufacturers unhappy with our findings and it hasn't affected later reviews of products from those companies (i've handed out Awards to firms whom literally spat in my face previously)......

Wow, thats quite a revelation.

 

[Andy Clough]

Oh yes, we've been accused of all sorts over the years. None of it true, of course. We just keep on

 

[Anonymous]

Messiah do you think that either of the following would be a good cd transport for the 9.1's Nad 545, marantz 6003 or cambridge 650c. I am also thinking of the Onkyo ND-si for my ipod classic.

 

[idc]

Cable Lover:

...The speakers do bass pretty well. Being active, they do it differently from passive speakers, i.e. they strive for accuracy over boom. I have no doubt though, that if I added a sub, the bass would sound truly accurate.....

Interesting point Cable Lover. I say that bass is more hifi if it is accurate as opposed to 'boom'. So adding a sub, if it adds 'boom' would reduce the accuracy of the bass and the overall music. Bass is about rhythm and so the bass guitar, drums etc should be clear, but not overwhelming the rest of the music, particularly lead guitar and vocals.

On my sytem I can hear the kick drum and bass guitar very clearly. The bass guitar has such detail I can hear the strings being plucked or strummed and the tone is fantastic.

From your comment I would say that the AVIs would be more hifi without the sub and more dynamic and full with.