Do more expensive amplifiers make a difference?

[audiokid]

Informative link. Thanks for posting.

 

[John Duncan]

What amp have you got, pauln?

Rega Brio 3; why, does it matter?

Prior to that was a Mission Cyrus 2. I don't upgrade much.

 

[ESLee]

I'd say they do.

I used to have an Arcam A28 feeding my Spendor's and found that after trying a Sony TA-FA 777ES which fed them with more power, they seemed to open up considerably.

I'm aware they are not the easiest to power, however. That said, IME, older amps with less power on paper have been more than a match for some of the more powerful modern amps ive used.

 

[pauln]

especially valve amps, it's a nice, warm, analogue kind of sound that probably reminds middle aged men of their childhood.

You dont half type a load of bo**o*ks mate and obviously have no idea how modern day valve amps sound compared to yesteryear.

Yeah my 845s are nice warm pipe and slippers sounding. Like feck they are.

My 300B SE is all cuddly wuddly wrapped in cotton wool . Like feck it is.

Complete bollo**s mate. Go away untill you have the slightest idea what you are banging on about regarding valve amps.

Amen. rant over

You're obviously a fan.

 

[floyd droid]

You're obviously a fan.

Obviously. And as I said ,obviously you have no idea what a modern day valve amp sounds like.

Stick to what you know ,not what you have read.

 

[pauln]

What amp have you got, pauln?

Rega Brio 3; why, does it matter?

Prior to that was a Mission Cyrus 2. I don't upgrade much.

I'm wondering why you upgraded at all, if amps all sound the same.

Because it stopped working? Fine reason to get a new one don't you think?

Because it was 15 years old and had been fixed twice already.

Because, oddly, at that time I didn't think the way I do now about this kind of thing.

I couldn't hear any difference, my wife thought the Rega sounded worse - "a bit tinny" was the phrase she used. I was expecting this much vaunted British amp to sound fantastic and it didn't.

 

[pauln]

You're obviously a fan.

Obviously. And as I said ,obviously you have no idea what a modern day valve amp sounds like.

Stick to what you know ,not what you have read.

I'll stick to believing measurements thanks.

 

[audiokid]

I'm interested to hear from anyone who has owned both high quality / expensive amps and cheaper amps with easy to drive speakers and not detected any difference.

Did you happily downgrade?

Or upgrade, and later realise no improvement after the initial excitement?

 

[pauln]

I know little about electronics, however I do know (or have learnt) that diving impedance/high phase angle are characteristics of difficult to drive speakers and these speakers will require even more Watts to drive them without clipping. More Watts, higher current. More power.

So you accept that wattage isn't all that matters; current matters too. This is why a low-wattage, high-current design, such as a 30W Class A amp, is better at driving difficult speakers than a low-wattage, low-current design, e.g. a low-spec Class A/B amp. Class A amps for the most part also sound different from Class A/B amps, because unlike Class A/B amps they don't suffer from crossover distortion. Different designs can sound different. It's not simply a matter of wattage.

Matt

So why can't people tell them apart in blind testing?

How does voltage affect things, since Watts = volts x amps?

 

[Overdose]

Given that tone controls alter how an amplifier sounds, then it is not inconcievable to imagine that some sort of filtering be inbuilt in an amplifier to provide a house sound, not particularly hi-fi, but there you are.

So we can say that some amplifiers sound different maybe, but should they if they are simply amplifying a signal? To my mind, any decent amp should be as transparent as the design allows and almost all evidence seems to point to the fact that most amps sound the same, or as close to being the same to be considered so.

The value in more expensive amplifiers aside from non audio properties is in the ability to better control difficult to drive speakers and to allow for greater volume without distortion. Sound quality per se should not really be an issue.

 

[ESLee]

i'd say alot of modern midrange amps, say 1 - 2k arent worth the money. I'd prefer a 10 - 20 year old Solid state powerhouse. My Arcam was ok but so cheaply built compared to some of the older Japanese stuff availible used. Thats where I'd spend my £'s. My only regret is not knowing sooner!

 

[mitch65]

I'd prefer a 10 - 20 year old Solid state powerhouse.

Bloody Sony lovers!

 

[stevebrock]

The Elicit R is £1100 more expensive than the Brio R IMHO this amp seriously blows the Brio R out of the water!

 

[DocG]

How does voltage affect things, since Watts = volts x amps?

For a certain power, when the speakers need lots of current (low impedance, high phase angle), voltage may drop = bad. No?

 

[audiokid]

And is this in a test where both amps are playing the at exactly the same moderate volume with the same, east to drive speakers?

 

[audiokid]

We are talking about easy to drive speakers only, like Harbeths.

 

[CnoEvil]

Rega Brio vs Elite R

Meant Brio R vs Elicit R. :doh:

 

[matt49]

So why can't people tell them apart in blind testing?

I'm not aware of any blind tests comparing Class A against Class A/B amps. But then having read through the blind tests given in MakkaPakka's e-mail, I wouldn't give any creedence to that kind of blind testing. They all seem to have been done by enthusiasts or engineers. It's a bit like asking a psychologist to measure the performance of an amp.

How does voltage affect things, since Watts = volts x amps?

You tell me, since you know all about engineering measurements.

 

[lindsayt]

So why did you never take up the Harbeth Challenge and win yourself 5 grands worth of speaker if it's so easy?

Oh, hang on, not one person took up the challenge. That speaks volumes to me.

I would have taken the Harbeth challenge in a heartbeat if it hadn't been for the get out clause that the amps must have the same frequency response. I own 2 amps that I am confident I can tell apart in a blind test. However they will have frequency responses that vary by 0.5 to 1 dbs at the frequency extremes. These frequency response differences are not the biggest sonic difference between them, but they are there nevertheless. The biggest sonic differences between these 2 amps comes from bass grip and midrange naturalness and detail.

 

[Al ears]

You're obviously a fan.

Obviously. And as I said ,obviously you have no idea what a modern day valve amp sounds like.

Stick to what you know ,not what you have read.

I'll stick to believing measurements thanks.

You cannot hear measurements.

 

[MakkaPakka]

What can you hear that can't be measured?

 

[lindsayt]

I've found the sonic differences between power amps on highly efficient and easy to drive speakers to be relatively small. Smaller than the differences between vinyl sources. Smaller than the differences between speakers.

So that a £40 new T-amp with good, highly efficient, easy to drive speakers will sound more enjoyable than £30,000+ new amplification with mediocre speakers.

However, swap the T-amp for a good solid state amp or a good SET amp with the easy to drive speakers and you will hear an icing on the cake diffference between them.

Most hugely expensive amplifiers sound fine. There are plenty of highly affordable 2nd hand amps that sound fine too.

Phono amps can have significant sonic differences between them, to the extent that they can spoil an otherwise good system.

 

[Covenanter]

If you can hear a difference and have the money then it's simply a matter of whether the difference is worth the money.

Chris

 

[CnoEvil]

What can you hear that can't be measured?

Cohesion, emotion, sterility, authenticity, believeability, musicality, insight, refinement, authority and communication.

 

[Covenanter]

What can you hear that can't be measured?

Cohesion, emotion, sterility, authenticity, believeability, musicality, insight, refinement, authority and communication.

Tactile fluidity?

Chris