John Duncan
Well-known member
I'd say they do.
I used to have an Arcam A28 feeding my Spendor's and found that after trying a Sony TA-FA 777ES which fed them with more power, they seemed to open up considerably.
I'm aware they are not the easiest to power, however. That said, IME, older amps with less power on paper have been more than a match for some of the more powerful modern amps ive used.
I used to have an Arcam A28 feeding my Spendor's and found that after trying a Sony TA-FA 777ES which fed them with more power, they seemed to open up considerably.
I'm aware they are not the easiest to power, however. That said, IME, older amps with less power on paper have been more than a match for some of the more powerful modern amps ive used.
pauln said:
Obviously. And as I said ,obviously you have no idea what a modern day valve amp sounds like.
Stick to what you know ,not what you have read.
John Duncan said:
Because it stopped working? Fine reason to get a new one don't you think?
Because it was 15 years old and had been fixed twice already.
Because, oddly, at that time I didn't think the way I do now about this kind of thing.
I couldn't hear any difference, my wife thought the Rega sounded worse - "a bit tinny" was the phrase she used. I was expecting this much vaunted British amp to sound fantastic and it didn't.
floyd droid said:pauln said:
Obviously. And as I said ,obviously you have no idea what a modern day valve amp sounds like.
Stick to what you know ,not what you have read.
I'll stick to believing measurements thanks.
I'm interested to hear from anyone who has owned both high quality / expensive amps and cheaper amps with easy to drive speakers and not detected any difference.
Did you happily downgrade?
Or upgrade, and later realise no improvement after the initial excitement?
Did you happily downgrade?
Or upgrade, and later realise no improvement after the initial excitement?
matt49 said:
So why can't people tell them apart in blind testing?
How does voltage affect things, since Watts = volts x amps?
Overdose
Well-known member
Given that tone controls alter how an amplifier sounds, then it is not inconcievable to imagine that some sort of filtering be inbuilt in an amplifier to provide a house sound, not particularly hi-fi, but there you are.
So we can say that some amplifiers sound different maybe, but should they if they are simply amplifying a signal? To my mind, any decent amp should be as transparent as the design allows and almost all evidence seems to point to the fact that most amps sound the same, or as close to being the same to be considered so.
The value in more expensive amplifiers aside from non audio properties is in the ability to better control difficult to drive speakers and to allow for greater volume without distortion. Sound quality per se should not really be an issue.
So we can say that some amplifiers sound different maybe, but should they if they are simply amplifying a signal? To my mind, any decent amp should be as transparent as the design allows and almost all evidence seems to point to the fact that most amps sound the same, or as close to being the same to be considered so.
The value in more expensive amplifiers aside from non audio properties is in the ability to better control difficult to drive speakers and to allow for greater volume without distortion. Sound quality per se should not really be an issue.
i'd say alot of modern midrange amps, say 1 - 2k arent worth the money. I'd prefer a 10 - 20 year old Solid state powerhouse. My Arcam was ok but so cheaply built compared to some of the older Japanese stuff availible used. Thats where I'd spend my £'s. My only regret is not knowing sooner!
mitch65
Well-known member
The Elicit R is £1100 more expensive than the Brio R IMHO this amp seriously blows the Brio R out of the water!
DocG
Well-known member
pauln said:
For a certain power, when the speakers need lots of current (low impedance, high phase angle), voltage may drop = bad. No?
And is this in a test where both amps are playing the at exactly the same moderate volume with the same, east to drive speakers?
matt49
Well-known member
pauln said:
I'm not aware of any blind tests comparing Class A against Class A/B amps. But then having read through the blind tests given in MakkaPakka's e-mail, I wouldn't give any creedence to that kind of blind testing. They all seem to have been done by enthusiasts or engineers. It's a bit like asking a psychologist to measure the performance of an amp.
pauln said:
You tell me, since you know all about engineering measurements.
pauln said:
I would have taken the Harbeth challenge in a heartbeat if it hadn't been for the get out clause that the amps must have the same frequency response. I own 2 amps that I am confident I can tell apart in a blind test. However they will have frequency responses that vary by 0.5 to 1 dbs at the frequency extremes. These frequency response differences are not the biggest sonic difference between them, but they are there nevertheless. The biggest sonic differences between these 2 amps comes from bass grip and midrange naturalness and detail.
Al ears
Well-known member
pauln said:floyd droid said:pauln said:
Obviously. And as I said ,obviously you have no idea what a modern day valve amp sounds like.
Stick to what you know ,not what you have read.
I'll stick to believing measurements thanks.
You cannot hear measurements.
I've found the sonic differences between power amps on highly efficient and easy to drive speakers to be relatively small. Smaller than the differences between vinyl sources. Smaller than the differences between speakers.
So that a £40 new T-amp with good, highly efficient, easy to drive speakers will sound more enjoyable than £30,000+ new amplification with mediocre speakers.
However, swap the T-amp for a good solid state amp or a good SET amp with the easy to drive speakers and you will hear an icing on the cake diffference between them.
Most hugely expensive amplifiers sound fine. There are plenty of highly affordable 2nd hand amps that sound fine too.
Phono amps can have significant sonic differences between them, to the extent that they can spoil an otherwise good system.
So that a £40 new T-amp with good, highly efficient, easy to drive speakers will sound more enjoyable than £30,000+ new amplification with mediocre speakers.
However, swap the T-amp for a good solid state amp or a good SET amp with the easy to drive speakers and you will hear an icing on the cake diffference between them.
Most hugely expensive amplifiers sound fine. There are plenty of highly affordable 2nd hand amps that sound fine too.
Phono amps can have significant sonic differences between them, to the extent that they can spoil an otherwise good system.
Covenanter
Well-known member
If you can hear a difference and have the money then it's simply a matter of whether the difference is worth the money.
Chris
Chris
MakkaPakka said:
Cohesion, emotion, sterility, authenticity, believeability, musicality, insight, refinement, authority and communication.
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