David, do you guys have any Yamaha rx-a1010's in stock at the sorts of prices I'm seeing att on the net?
David@Frank Harvey Hi-Fi
- Thread starter Thompsonuxb
- Start date
Why don't you give him a ring tomorrow, i can't help thinking this is not the place to discuss business, although i could be wrong. :?
Sorry if this is against the rules..... mods close this if it is, there's no facility to pm anyone.
if I'm out of order pls feel free to close.
if I'm out of order pls feel free to close.
alchemist 1
Well-known member
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
Sorry, been away over the weekend for e girlfriend's birthday 
All of our *010 Yamaha stock has now gone - deals like that sell out very quickly here
All of our *010 Yamaha stock has now gone - deals like that sell out very quickly here
FrankHarveyHiFi said:Sorry, been away over the weekend for e girlfriend's birthday
All of our *010 Yamaha stock has now gone - deals like that sell out very quickly here
What's an " e girlfriend " ? Someone you talk to on the computer ? I've heard of those .
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
Covenanter
Well-known member
I think an "e girlfriend" is a synonym for "avatar". Surely people who work in hifi shops don't have real girlfriends. :rofl:
Chris
Chris
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
Sorry to bother you again but I read you, you listen to the kit you sell, in your opinion how would a £1000 reciever like the Yamaha rx-a1010/1020 or the Pioneer SC-LX55/56 compare to the current glut of 700poundish stereo amps for stereo playback.
Have you ever taken the time to set up this level of rx properly and compare them.....
(Currently looking at the SC-lx56 special offer upto £400 trade in...)
cheers, in antisipation.
Have you ever taken the time to set up this level of rx properly and compare them.....
(Currently looking at the SC-lx56 special offer upto £400 trade in...)
cheers, in antisipation.
To add what I mean by set up properly, I mean turn off all unused channels on the rx'er, turn the left and right main levels up to their max and use the digital coax (copper) input - CD as transport only and turn the DSP off (bi-amp the speakers if possible).......
jjbomber
Well-known member
FrankHarveyHiFi said:Sorry, been away over the weekend for the girlfriend's birthday
That's one way of avoiding her
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
The only way to get the best audio quality out of an AV receiver is to turn off all superfluous circuitry - you don't want any processing going on that will degrade or interfere with two channel performance. Also, the front speakers should ideally be used full range without the sub, but this will depend on the type of speakers/sub used and their ultimate abilities.
Again, whether you use the onboard digital/analogue conversion of the CD player or AV receiver really depends on which contains the best quality DAC, the result of which may well come down to personal preference.
AV receivers have improved greatly over the past 5 years, but I think they're in danger of being dragged back down by the AV receiver manufacturers in their 'race' to be the most full featured for the cheapest price. This type of "market share" war usually ends up with the majority of the budget being spent on features in order to attract more sales, leaving less to be spent on what actually matters - underneath all of the features and usability, it is an amplifier, and an amplifier's job is to tell the speaker what to do and when to do it. I personally feel this type of compromise usually disappears when options for pre/power amps are introduced.
As I say though, they have greatly improved, and the current £1k receivers like the Onkyo 818 and Pioneer SCLX56 do offer good two channel performance, certainly good enough for most people to live with to form the heart of a 'do it all' system.
One of the things to remember though is that any amplifier or receiver can sound naff when it is presented with a speaker that it doesn't have the ability to cope with properly. The trick is to stick to speakers that it can cope with - do this and they can compete quite favourably with similarly priced hi-fi amplifiers. Of course, much will also be down to expectation, and also knowing exactly what any one individual is aiming for, whether that be within their budget or not. Until you know what's possible, its hard to know exactly what you're looking for.
Again, whether you use the onboard digital/analogue conversion of the CD player or AV receiver really depends on which contains the best quality DAC, the result of which may well come down to personal preference.
AV receivers have improved greatly over the past 5 years, but I think they're in danger of being dragged back down by the AV receiver manufacturers in their 'race' to be the most full featured for the cheapest price. This type of "market share" war usually ends up with the majority of the budget being spent on features in order to attract more sales, leaving less to be spent on what actually matters - underneath all of the features and usability, it is an amplifier, and an amplifier's job is to tell the speaker what to do and when to do it. I personally feel this type of compromise usually disappears when options for pre/power amps are introduced.
As I say though, they have greatly improved, and the current £1k receivers like the Onkyo 818 and Pioneer SCLX56 do offer good two channel performance, certainly good enough for most people to live with to form the heart of a 'do it all' system.
One of the things to remember though is that any amplifier or receiver can sound naff when it is presented with a speaker that it doesn't have the ability to cope with properly. The trick is to stick to speakers that it can cope with - do this and they can compete quite favourably with similarly priced hi-fi amplifiers. Of course, much will also be down to expectation, and also knowing exactly what any one individual is aiming for, whether that be within their budget or not. Until you know what's possible, its hard to know exactly what you're looking for.
Yes I hear you but what I need is an appraisal…I know its your work and you are probably busy but have you ever set one of these amps up and compared it to the 700pounds+ amps on site….
I currently have a Rotel ra-1520 paired with a pair of Mission 782se and frankly it can’t control them, like most of the amps I auditioned before buying, the signature is similar loud but without real power (lacks timbre, fine detail and the ability to push the music outside the boxes) prior to this I was using an old Yamaha dsp-AX620 which did deliver all these things. (Now under my telly)
So I have concluded…eh…em… my speakers require the power/current an amp capable of driving 5 or 7 full range speakers can deliver to sing. 60watts p/c is not enough no matter the Quality of the signal…..prrrft.
I was considering the Yamaha 673 which is currently about 450pounds and falling but these 1000pound models from last year are now going for very similar money so this is the direction I’m moving to its for stereo playback.
And methinks it is the only way to really gain on my old rx
My intention is not to put you out, but…would it be possible for you to compare a couple of these directly and give us or me an objective appraisal . If you can.....I'm reading you.....
I currently have a Rotel ra-1520 paired with a pair of Mission 782se and frankly it can’t control them, like most of the amps I auditioned before buying, the signature is similar loud but without real power (lacks timbre, fine detail and the ability to push the music outside the boxes) prior to this I was using an old Yamaha dsp-AX620 which did deliver all these things. (Now under my telly)
So I have concluded…eh…em… my speakers require the power/current an amp capable of driving 5 or 7 full range speakers can deliver to sing. 60watts p/c is not enough no matter the Quality of the signal…..prrrft.
I was considering the Yamaha 673 which is currently about 450pounds and falling but these 1000pound models from last year are now going for very similar money so this is the direction I’m moving to its for stereo playback.
And methinks it is the only way to really gain on my old rx
My intention is not to put you out, but…would it be possible for you to compare a couple of these directly and give us or me an objective appraisal . If you can.....I'm reading you.....
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
lol...sorry for laughing, but that made me laugh.......
I disagree on that because I think an amps ability to control speakers is universial I know every speaker as its own 'sound' - but generally speaking quality will out. My speakers to my ears are pretty revealing and neutral - capable of great detail and nuances able to show the differences between cables, transports and amps very clearly. If you have any around in stock that has those qualities you could use them.
Lol........sorry for bothering you, was just hoping......
I disagree on that because I think an amps ability to control speakers is universial I know every speaker as its own 'sound' - but generally speaking quality will out. My speakers to my ears are pretty revealing and neutral - capable of great detail and nuances able to show the differences between cables, transports and amps very clearly. If you have any around in stock that has those qualities you could use them.
Lol........sorry for bothering you, was just hoping......
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
Do you mean to say that an amplifiers ability to control a speaker is the same regardless of the speakers used?
Yes.......
An amp is limited by the quality of a speaker or the speaker’s ability to reproduce music anyway. Thought everyone new that?
An amp is limited by the quality of a speaker or the speaker’s ability to reproduce music anyway. Thought everyone new that?
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
:rofl:
I do have a reply I typed up last night on the iPad, but I fell asleep. I'll send it when I get to work.
I do have a reply I typed up last night on the iPad, but I fell asleep. I'll send it when I get to work.
Thompsonuxb said:
Well you learn something new everyday. I was thinking of upgrading my current AVR to a Pioneer SC - LX 86 or Yamaha RX-A3020. There I was thinking it would be better to try and demo them with my current speakers (Monitor Audio RX6s), but given your advice,I won't bother. I'll ask David at Frank Harvey to demo the amps by connecting the Pioneer to a pair of 20K Kef blades and the Yamaha to a pair of £230 wharfdale Diamond 121s.I'm sure that will be a fair comparison. Thanks for that. :clap:
Surely speaker sensitivity comes in to play when working out how much power an amp needs to control certain speakers?
Not really.
An amplifier's control depends largely on the 'damping factor' which is established by the amp's output impedance characteristic.
Essentially, the speaker acts like a flywheel which can emit energy (back emf) which the amplifier opposes.
The degree of back emf which is generated is a characteristic of the speaker, not of the amplifier, and varies greatly according to the design.
The output impedance of good Class AB SS amps is very low, giving a high damping factor, and usually fairly constant. Valve and Class D amps are weaker in this respect.
JC
An amplifier's control depends largely on the 'damping factor' which is established by the amp's output impedance characteristic.
Essentially, the speaker acts like a flywheel which can emit energy (back emf) which the amplifier opposes.
The degree of back emf which is generated is a characteristic of the speaker, not of the amplifier, and varies greatly according to the design.
The output impedance of good Class AB SS amps is very low, giving a high damping factor, and usually fairly constant. Valve and Class D amps are weaker in this respect.
JC
josh05 said:
Helpful advise there from JC.
Although sensitivity is not really the issue, you are not that far off either as speaker design and port tuning in particular (and its effect on cone damping) is not irrelevant. For example, a 'flat' tuned port will damp a bass cone over a wider frequency area which in turn makes for a flatter impedance. In contrast, a port that has been tuned to provide a 'peakier' response over a shorther area of frequency response will have less effect on the speakers inherent damping. - It gets more complicated but I hope JC would agree that 'control' of a speaker, leaving the room aside, is a symbiosis of factors of which the amplifier is an important part.
regards
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