David@Frank Harvey Hi-Fi

[jcbrum]

Broadly, I agree dm.

My thinking is perhaps more directly applied to the control of a transducer (drive unit), such as might be found in an active speaker, where it is connected directly to it's dedicated amplifier.

When thinking in terms of a complete loudspeaker, particularly of the passive crossover variety, then the considerations which you mention, will also come into play somewhat.

Generally, the effect of a passive crossover will be to reduce, or impede, the amplifier damping factor, when considering the loudspeaker as a complete entity.

JC

 

[drummerman]

Passive Xovers are a necessary evil and the absence of any in a well designed active speaker is a huge benefit.

There are some good passive speakers with minimalist crossovers but they rely on good driver integration, not easy to achieve.

regards

 

[drummerman]

Speaking of which, I think the use of a fixed central cap or bullet in a mid (mid-bass) driver makes sense in such a minimalist design. Prevents the cap acting as an ad-hoc tweeter.

Would be interesting to hear from AEJim and/or RothAV on their choices re. xovers and driver choices/designs.

regards

 

[josh05]

Thanks for explaining that to me guys but I have to say I don't really understand lol. Might have to look more in to it to get a better understanding

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Yes.......

An amp is limited by the quality of a speaker or the speaker’s ability to reproduce music anyway. Thought everyone new that?

I know that, but that wasn't what I was asking. I was referring to this:

I disagree on that because I think an amps ability to control speakers is universial

Yes an amp that can control speakers well, will always do so, limited only by the speaker itself.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I disagree on that because I think an amps ability to control speakers is universial I know every speaker as its own 'sound' - but generally speaking quality will out.

Well you learn something new everyday. I was thinking of upgrading my current AVR to a Pioneer SC - LX 86 or Yamaha RX-A3020. There I was thinking it would be better to try and demo them with my current speakers (Monitor Audio RX6s), but given your advice,I won't bother. I'll ask David at Frank Harvey to demo the amps by connecting the Pioneer to a pair of 20K Kef blades and the Yamaha to a pair of £230 wharfdale Diamond 121s.I'm sure that will be a fair comparison. Thanks for that. :clap:

Wow, you wanna start something?

lol....just kidding.

in fact testing your high end reciever with those diamonds would not be such a bad thing, their less revealing nature may deliver a sound that suprises you when given the power those amps can deliver may even impress you more than the more revealing high end speakers .

but seriously I'm not suggesting amps sound the same regardless of speaker all I was saying was a good amp will control a speaker well regardless of the speakers price so with regard my request to David speaker choice is not that important, just get a good pair and tell which amp sounds better.

The accoustics in his demo rooms will most likely make the kit sound very different to how it sounds in my home anyway - just a general overview an honest appraisal is all ......

 

[fr0g]

Yes.......

An amp is limited by the quality of a speaker or the speaker’s ability to reproduce music anyway. Thought everyone new that?

I know that, but that wasn't what I was asking. I was referring to this:

I disagree on that because I think an amps ability to control speakers is universial

Yes an amp that can control speakers well, will always do so, limited only by the speaker itself.

No, it will depend on the speakers too. Stop being daft. You can have a fantastic amp with one speaker which is awful with another because of how hard it is to drive. It may give oodles of power and headroom driving a nice 8 ohm speaker but choke and die when something that dives down to 2 or less ohms comes along requiring a lot more current comes along, if it can't supply it.

One of many reasons why an active speaker design is the way to go

 

[drummerman]

Yes.......

An amp is limited by the quality of a speaker or the speaker’s ability to reproduce music anyway. Thought everyone new that?

I know that, but that wasn't what I was asking. I was referring to this:

I disagree on that because I think an amps ability to control speakers is universial

Yes an amp that can control speakers well, will always do so, limited only by the speaker itself.

No, it will depend on the speakers too. Stop being daft. You can have a fantastic amp with one speaker which is awful with another because of how hard it is to drive. It may give oodles of power and headroom driving a nice 8 ohm speaker but choke and die when something that dives down to 2 or less ohms comes along requiring a lot more current comes along, if it can't supply it.

One of many reasons why an active speaker design is the way to go

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Yes.......

An amp is limited by the quality of a speaker or the speaker’s ability to reproduce music anyway. Thought everyone new that?

I know that, but that wasn't what I was asking. I was referring to this:

I disagree on that because I think an amps ability to control speakers is universial

Yes an amp that can control speakers well, will always do so, limited only by the speaker itself.

No, it will depend on the speakers too. Stop being daft. You can have a fantastic amp with one speaker which is awful with another because of how hard it is to drive. It may give oodles of power and headroom driving a nice 8 ohm speaker but choke and die when something that dives down to 2 or less ohms comes along requiring a lot more current comes along, if it can't supply it.

One of many reasons why an active speaker design is the way to go

Are we saying the same thing Frog?

cause I agree with you and see no conflict in what I'm trying to say and what you have said only imo this active speaker argument is poppycock!

A good quality 40watt into 8ohm amp won't drive a 300watt 6ohm speaker well but it will drive most price and in its spec speaker well, I see that

or are you saying something different?

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Anyhoo, this offer for the LX-56 ends end of March...er...you had any chance David@frankharvey to compare..... :cheer:

 

[Frank Harvey]

Sorry, I haven't. It's been extremely busy recently, and I've been at the Bristol show all weekend and I'm now visiting my new grandson - not back until Thursday, and I suspect I'll be playing catch up on Thursday/Friday. I have the AV8801's XT32 to play about with and perfect, and the Ken Kreisel speakers are due...its non stop! If you want to ask me a specific question, I'll obviously do what I can to give my opinion

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Oh....o.k, fair enough.

Checking through the online hi-fi sites was given a price of £749 for a RX-a1020 (possibly a recon or return) - if I can get £250 or £300 for the Rotel I am tempted, although I'd have to drive to Maidenhead or somewhere like that. Don't trust e shopping.

Direct question, when do the next gen of these amps ususlly come around is it the autumn or have I got to wait till the end of the year?

this Rotel is depreciating faster than a Jaguar..... . :O

 

[visionary]

Oh....o.k, fair enough.

Checking through the online hi-fi sites was given a price of £749 for a RX-a1020 (possibly a recon or return) - if I can get £250 or £300 for the Rotel I am tempted, although I'd have to drive to Maidenhead or somewhere like that. Don't trust e shopping.

Direct question, when do the next gen of these amps ususlly come around is it the autumn or have I got to wait till the end of the year?

this Rotel is depreciating faster than a Jaguar..... . :O

Have I got this right?

You don't trust e-shopping but you're asking a dealer, who you've no plans to buy from, to set up a demo to check how HE thinks two systems compare, using HIS ears, and then you plan to buy on that basis?

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Oh....o.k, fair enough.

Checking through the online hi-fi sites was given a price of £749 for a RX-a1020 (possibly a recon or return) - if I can get £250 or £300 for the Rotel I am tempted, although I'd have to drive to Maidenhead or somewhere like that. Don't trust e shopping.

Direct question, when do the next gen of these amps ususlly come around is it the autumn or have I got to wait till the end of the year?

this Rotel is depreciating faster than a Jaguar..... . :O

Have I got this right?

You don't trust e-shopping but you're asking a dealer, who you've no plans to buy from, to set up a demo to check how HE thinks two systems compare, using HIS ears, and then you plan to buy on that basis?

Er...no.

I intend to buy ether the Pioneer lx-55 (currently with a upto 400 pound discount exchange any hifi) or the Yamaha rx-a1020 (wanted the rx-a1010 was going for less than half price end of line, but is now harder to find than rockin horse brown stuff)...what?...you not following the conversation.

I have a week off next week so will be able to dig further for that elusive deal/ Only wanted the opinion of an expert who methinks is in the right place to give a fair and objective appraisel .....

Demo's are not really a good way to judge equ, hell..I was fooled into buying the Rotel ra-1520, but I'd trust his ears.

 

[SteveR750]

Have I just landed accidentally on 4chan?

To the OP, why don't you simply go and listen for yourself - suerly there's enough evidence on one page alone of these forums that rarely do two people agree what sounds best. Asking David to do a quick yeah those two sound OK isn't really going to help you. If you really can't trust your own ears, then why on earth are you using anything more than an ipod / phone into a TV via bluetooth??

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Have I just landed accidentally on 4chan?

To the OP, why don't you simply go and listen for yourself - suerly there's enough evidence on one page alone of these forums that rarely do two people agree what sounds best. Asking David to do a quick yeah those two sound OK isn't really going to help you. If you really can't trust your own ears, then why on earth are you using anything more than an ipod / phone into a TV via bluetooth??

What!?

In my view Davids in a good position to give an opinion on hi-fi or what sounds 'good'. I see no problem taking an opinion from him. I read him and he seems to give sound advice on equ. And it will be helpful to me otherwise I'd not ask..... the bit about my ears and bluetooth, don't know what your on about, sorry.