Correct wiring of jumper cables

[BigColz]

Ahhh I get it now.... I'll try it when I can be bothered to get some jumpers.. I don't think it's ridiculous to think having shielded cable made of the same material (inductance, capacitance etc) as the speaker cable linking them superior to a lump of plated unshielded metal.

Quie right BigColz. There are some people who say they have heard an improvement without actually changing out the 'lump of plated unshielded metal', just connecting the way described. Try it and see, that way it will not cost a penny.

It is also interesting to see that many of the 'higher end' speaker manufacturers (particularly the French ones funnily enough) are moving towards using actual cable (the same as they use to internally wire their speakers) in place of bent bits of plated sheet / rods as the means of interconnecting.

Yeah I might try it and see.. Then try jumpers too. I could just cut a small length off my standard clear basic CA speaker cable on my lounge setup to try I suppose but to be fair i'd happily pay £25 (terminated and delivered) for the TQ blue jumpers with the nice connectors etc.. If nothing else just because i'm OCD and like things be plug in/out and look tidy

 

[Al ears]

Ahhh I get it now.... I'll try it when I can be bothered to get some jumpers.. I don't think it's ridiculous to think having shielded cable made of the same material (inductance, capacitance etc) as the speaker cable linking them superior to a lump of plated unshielded metal.

Quie right BigColz. There are some people who say they have heard an improvement without actually changing out the 'lump of plated unshielded metal', just connecting the way described. Try it and see, that way it will not cost a penny.

It is also interesting to see that many of the 'higher end' speaker manufacturers (particularly the French ones funnily enough) are moving towards using actual cable (the same as they use to internally wire their speakers) in place of bent bits of plated sheet / rods as the means of interconnecting.

Yeah I might try it and see.. Then try jumpers too. I could just cut a small length off my standard clear basic CA speaker cable on my lounge setup to try I suppose but to be fair i'd happily pay £25 (terminated and delivered) for the TQ blue jumpers with the nice connectors etc.. If nothing else just because i'm OCD and like things be plug in/out and look tidy

Surely if you are OCD that would be plug in/out, in/out again, and again, and look tidy!

 

[BigColz]

Ahhh I get it now.... I'll try it when I can be bothered to get some jumpers.. I don't think it's ridiculous to think having shielded cable made of the same material (inductance, capacitance etc) as the speaker cable linking them superior to a lump of plated unshielded metal.

Quie right BigColz. There are some people who say they have heard an improvement without actually changing out the 'lump of plated unshielded metal', just connecting the way described. Try it and see, that way it will not cost a penny.

It is also interesting to see that many of the 'higher end' speaker manufacturers (particularly the French ones funnily enough) are moving towards using actual cable (the same as they use to internally wire their speakers) in place of bent bits of plated sheet / rods as the means of interconnecting.

Yeah I might try it and see.. Then try jumpers too. I could just cut a small length off my standard clear basic CA speaker cable on my lounge setup to try I suppose but to be fair i'd happily pay £25 (terminated and delivered) for the TQ blue jumpers with the nice connectors etc.. If nothing else just because i'm OCD and like things be plug in/out and look tidy

Surely if you are OCD that would be plug in/out, in/out again, and again, and look tidy!

Ha very true but sound quality is prority number one and if a lot of people say they hear benefits then I'll take the risk.. If i don't hear a difference i'll sell it and loose £5-£10. Less than it costs in petrol to get to my local hifi shop.. Even more when I get the M3 lol :cheers:

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Ahhh I get it now.... I'll try it when I can be bothered to get some jumpers.. I don't think it's ridiculous to think having shielded cable made of the same material (inductance, capacitance etc) as the speaker cable linking them superior to a lump of plated unshielded metal.

Quie right BigColz. There are some people who say they have heard an improvement without actually changing out the 'lump of plated unshielded metal', just connecting the way described. Try it and see, that way it will not cost a penny.

It is also interesting to see that many of the 'higher end' speaker manufacturers (particularly the French ones funnily enough) are moving towards using actual cable (the same as they use to internally wire their speakers) in place of bent bits of plated sheet / rods as the means of interconnecting.

Yeah I might try it and see.. Then try jumpers too. I could just cut a small length off my standard clear basic CA speaker cable on my lounge setup to try I suppose but to be fair i'd happily pay £25 (terminated and delivered) for the TQ blue jumpers with the nice connectors etc.. If nothing else just because i'm OCD and like things be plug in/out and look tidy

The hifi dealer in Aberdeen I used to use (and plan on using again) - no names but it's the one on Holburn Street - would normally offer to make up a set of jumpers from the same cable free of charge if you bought the extra foot or so of cable (along with the main runs, of course) for free.

 

[BigColz]

Ahhh I get it now.... I'll try it when I can be bothered to get some jumpers.. I don't think it's ridiculous to think having shielded cable made of the same material (inductance, capacitance etc) as the speaker cable linking them superior to a lump of plated unshielded metal.

Quie right BigColz. There are some people who say they have heard an improvement without actually changing out the 'lump of plated unshielded metal', just connecting the way described. Try it and see, that way it will not cost a penny.

It is also interesting to see that many of the 'higher end' speaker manufacturers (particularly the French ones funnily enough) are moving towards using actual cable (the same as they use to internally wire their speakers) in place of bent bits of plated sheet / rods as the means of interconnecting.

Yeah I might try it and see.. Then try jumpers too. I could just cut a small length off my standard clear basic CA speaker cable on my lounge setup to try I suppose but to be fair i'd happily pay £25 (terminated and delivered) for the TQ blue jumpers with the nice connectors etc.. If nothing else just because i'm OCD and like things be plug in/out and look tidy

The hifi dealer in Aberdeen I used to use (and plan on using again) - no names but it's the one on Holburn Street - would normally offer to make up a set of jumpers from the same cable free of charge if you bought the extra foot or so of cable (along with the main runs, of course) for free.

That's good.. TQ black aren't off the reel cables they come terminated from TQ and to buy matching jumpers are (overpriced at) £85 :?

Blues are only £25 so i'll prob get them at some point..

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

That's good.. TQ black aren't off the reel cables they come terminated from TQ and to buy matching jumpers are (overpriced at) £85 :?

Blues are only £25 so i'll prob get them at some point..

Might have some round here reaching for their Bibles, holy water and a stake to burn me at, but you could always consider buying an extra cable (or pair) and having one cut up and reterminated....

I'll get me coat.....

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Scrub that - I've just checked the prices on these cables :O

Suddenly 85 quid for a set of jumpers doesn't seem so bad.

 

[BigColz]

Scrub that - I've just checked the prices on these cables :O

Suddenly 85 quid for a set of jumpers doesn't seem so bad.

I got 2 x 2m TQ Black terminated for £150 so it's over half the price again for jumpers which IMO is overpriced.. I had Chord Epic before which is the same price per metre and the Epic jumpers are £40 which is more reasonable.. £25 blues will be fine..

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

I only glanced at a certain Glaswegian hifi dealer's website and a 3 metre pair there was over 280 quid.

Looked at Tellurium's own website and the amount of techno-babble there turned me right off. I am open to correction though. A set of Chord Odyssey 4's, 3 metres long, will set you back 240 quid...

 

[BigColz]

I only glanced at a certain Glaswegian hifi dealer's website and a 3 metre pair there was over 280 quid.

Looked at Tellurium's own website and the amount of techno-babble there turned me right off. I am open to correction though. A set of Chord Odyssey 4's, 3 metres long, will set you back 240 quid...

Yeah each to there own.. Doesn't bother me if people think i've wasted money etc.. I have Chord Epic 3m at a really good price and if I sell will break even, i heard the TQ black can tone down top end end produce more balanced sound which it seems to have done slightly although I need to do more tests and it's hard in my current room due bad acoustics.. IMO £300 on speaker cables and interconnects for £5-6k worth of kit is a pretty reasonable amount at 5% of the cost..

 

[Anonymous]

Just a quick note to say that I made some jumper cables out of TQ blue and I really didn't like them at all. Very veiled sounding. I'm happy to send them to anyone for postage. I've removed the terminations. I only paid £16.50 for a metre so it no big loss.

 

[Baldrick1]

-www.futureshop.co.uk for a pair of 20cm jumpers (terminated/sleeved) from Chord Signature cable for £33.50 (or £66.50 for both speakers). Sounds like a good deal.

Having said that I tried, at lunch time, the Red to Treble & Black to Bass (or asymetric bananas...as I am calling them) with binding posts linked as for single wire and I believe I can hear a difference, i.e., improved HF...which may not be surprising given that the HF driver is getting the signal directly rather than going through the plate/connection to allow single wiring rather than biwiring.

Need to listen some more but this seems promising...and is at no cost. :dance:

Balders

 

[CnoEvil]

Scrub that - I've just checked the prices on these cables :O

Suddenly 85 quid for a set of jumpers doesn't seem so bad.

I got 2 x 2m TQ Black terminated for £150 so it's over half the price again for jumpers which IMO is overpriced.. I had Chord Epic before which is the same price per metre and the Epic jumpers are £40 which is more reasonable.. £25 blues will be fine..

I think you might be better with some quality Chord Signature (all copper) links, as has been suggested.....if you feel the TQ Black are just too expensive.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

IMO £300 on speaker cables and interconnects for £5-6k worth of kit is a pretty reasonable amount at 5% of the cost..

Don't disagree. I used to use two runs of Chord Odyssey 4 4-core cables to bi-wire each speaker in my Cyrus / ProAc setup, with paired conductors for +ve (or red) and -ve (or black) treble, and the same again for the bass, or bi-bi-wired, if you like

Would be a bit wasted on my current Onkyo receiver and bottom of the range Klipsch Reference 42 speakers though, so the Chord cables are sitting in a box in the attic, nice and safe from the spotty oiks. For my current setup, I think flat twin and earth or doorbell wire might be overkill..........

 

[BigColz]

Scrub that - I've just checked the prices on these cables :O

Suddenly 85 quid for a set of jumpers doesn't seem so bad.

I got 2 x 2m TQ Black terminated for £150 so it's over half the price again for jumpers which IMO is overpriced.. I had Chord Epic before which is the same price per metre and the Epic jumpers are £40 which is more reasonable.. £25 blues will be fine..

I think you might be better with some quality Chord Signature (all copper) links, as has been suggested.....if you feel the TQ Black are just too expensive.

Yeah think you might be right.. It's a nightmare in my current room acoustically.. Streamer is going back this weekend to get the screen replaced so will do some tests next month, then moving start of April :clap:

 

[Baldrick1]

Having said that I tried, at lunch time, the Red to Treble & Black to Bass (or asymetric bananas...as I am calling them) with binding posts linked as for single wire and I believe I can hear a difference, i.e., improved HF...which may not be surprising given that the HF driver is getting the signal directly rather than going through the plate/connection to allow single wiring rather than biwiring.

Need to listen some more but this seems promising...and is at no cost. :dance:

Balders

Update...the wife (who has better ears than me) has confirmed that there is a significant difference in the sound using the "asymetric banana" approach...same bass but more cohesive, better detail & space in terms of the treble...so looks like a keeper.

Just wondering as to why this is not recommended by the speaker manufacturers, which leads me to wonder if it will damage the speaker electrics in anyway? Can't see why when following the siganl paths 'virtually' but there is a doubt in my mind.

Checked the manual again and whilst they advise single wiring positive & negative to the LF posts they do not explicitly warn or advise against wiring positive & negative to the HF posts, i.e., the other extreme, as the "asymetric banana" approach is mid way betwween the two?

So, does anyone have the technical expertise to answer this question (now is the time to stop hiding your light under a bushel )

 

[Baldrick1]

May have just answered my own question having come across a PDF document (-http://www.audioquest.com/theory-education/) entitled "Understanding BiWiring" which states:

"For 2-way speakers be sure to put the red connector to treble + and black connector to bass -. This is the only way to preserve the tonal voice the speaker designer intended." with a little diagram to confirm this.

So seems like a usuable approach and if the people at AudioQuest think so/advocate it then I would assume that it is OK (still would be interesting to know what KEF think).

The rest of the document is very enlighteniing...and a good read on the subject.

Hope that helps?

 

[shadders]

May have just answered my own question having come across a PDF document (-http://www.audioquest.com/theory-education/) entitled "Understanding BiWiring" which states:

"For 2-way speakers be sure to put the red connector to treble + and black connector to bass -. This is the only way to preserve the tonal voice the speaker designer intended." with a little diagram to confirm this.

So seems like a usuable approach and if the people at AudioQuest think so/advocate it then I would assume that it is OK (still would be interesting to know what KEF think).

The rest of the document is very enlighteniing...and a good read on the subject.

Hope that helps?

Hi,

I read the PDF document - and here is a snippet :

"What about those“free” shiny metal jumpers that came with the speaker? It’s entirely accurate to describe these as “worth every penny you paid for them.” Simply put, these are very poor sounding devices."

I am thoroughly sceptical on this statement - and the other areas where placing a wire on one terminal and connecting to the other with a cable sounds so completely different to the reverse order. There is no scientific explanation, but just text telling you that you must do it.

When i read reviews of amplifiers sounding different - i can accept that, as they are designed different - and generally for solid state they are similar in sound (but obviously different) due to changes in topology.

Surely a bit of metal or cable cannot make such a marked difference, and the order that you connect them too - when amplifiers are stated to have a much less difference, and they are so much more complex than a bit of metal or cable.

Is this change being overstated ?

It reminds me of directional cables - is there such a thing ?. Or are you being told it is important that the direction is correct so you believe there is a correct way of connecting, and hence hear the difference you expect ?

I don't believe electrons get confused - so perhaps a bit of blind testing - get someone else to change the connections when you are out of the room multiple times and see if you can hear the changes and get it 100% every time.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[Baldrick1]

Appreciate your point of view and I do take what the is stated in the document with a pinch of salt however...

[I don't believe electrons get confused - so perhaps a bit of blind testing - get someone else to change the connections when you are out of the room multiple times and see if you can hear the changes and get it 100% every time.

Regards,

Shadders.

Actually did that with the wife. Had her blind test as you have described and she got it 'right' 9 out of 10 times...guessing when the speakers where 'asymetrically' wired and when not. :clap:

 

[busb]

I recently un-biwired my speakers. I originally reused the cheapo bendy plates but decided to make up some jumpers. Sounds dead simple doesn't it? My speakers have the usual binding posts that accept spades that the collar screws onto or 4 mm banana plugs. The high quality banana plugs on both ends of the speaker cable aren't stackable so the obvious solution was to buy decent quality spades - QED pack of 4 for £16 from Amazon.

So the jumpers had bananas on one end & spades on the other, intending to bridge pos to pos & neg to neg. Firstly the jumpers were too short because the spades would only connect in one orientation! I ended up putting the spades onto the main speaker cable instead with the jumpers having the bananas. Tiresome yes but further problems - when I screwed the down the terminals, the spades would be pushed back out. The terminals are so close together, it was impossible to get the damn spades tight! I resorted to buying some cheapo stackable banana plugs that my speaker cable now plug into. My quest for decent stacking banana plugs continues.

This supposedly simple task of replacing the jumper plates has not only left me traumatised but has given me an abiding hatred for spade connectors!

 

[shadders]

Appreciate your point of view and I do take what the is stated in the document with a pinch of salt however...

[I don't believe electrons get confused - so perhaps a bit of blind testing - get someone else to change the connections when you are out of the room multiple times and see if you can hear the changes and get it 100% every time.

Regards,

Shadders.

Actually did that with the wife. Had her blind test as you have described and she got it 'right' 9 out of 10 times...guessing when the speakers where 'asymetrically' wired and when not. :clap:

Hi,

I am amazed - it would be nice if those people stating it must be implemented this way provided an explanation why. The audioquest website makes the statement it must be this way, but again, no explanation.

If such a change is evident, then scientific investigation is needed - since a piece of metal orientation should not from theory cause such a difference.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[Baldrick1]

Hi,

I am amazed - it would be nice if those people stating it must be implemented this way provided an explanation why. The audioquest website makes the statement it must be this way, but again, no explanation.

If such a change is evident, then scientific investigation is needed - since a piece of metal orientation should not from theory cause such a difference.

Regards,

Shadders.

To be honest shadders I suspect that it very much depends on the speakers that this is applied to. I suspect that on some the diffeence due to orientation will be more tangible and therefore the test easier to suceed at whilst on other the difference will be marginal and therefore less easy to discern.

I believe that in the case of the KEFs it is widely recommended that they sound better biwired than single wired and whilst this is not biwiring it is moving in that direction...if you see where I am coming from.

Suspect that in the case of your speakers this change in orientation or biwiring would make as big a difference to single wiring...but may be wrong on that.

 

[BenLaw]

Appreciate your point of view and I do take what the is stated in the document with a pinch of salt however...

[I don't believe electrons get confused - so perhaps a bit of blind testing - get someone else to change the connections when you are out of the room multiple times and see if you can hear the changes and get it 100% every time.

Regards,

Shadders.

Actually did that with the wife. Had her blind test as you have described and she got it 'right' 9 out of 10 times...guessing when the speakers where 'asymetrically' wired and when not. :clap:

Hi,

I am amazed - it would be nice if those people stating it must be implemented this way provided an explanation why. The audioquest website makes the statement it must be this way, but again, no explanation.

If such a change is evident, then scientific investigation is needed - since a piece of metal orientation should not from theory cause such a difference.

Regards,

Shadders.

I would be amazed, except I am 100% certain that if we heard the full methodology then these would not be proper (double) blind tests and there would be an obvious reason why there was an apparent positive. Likewise recent claims from Acalex and Cnoevil.

 

[Baldrick1]

I would be amazed, except I am 100% certain that if we heard the full methodology then these would not be proper (double) blind tests and there would be an obvious reason why there was an apparent positive. Likewise recent claims from Acalex and Cnoevil.

To be honest you can believe what you want to...I am satisfied that there is a tangible difference and I am not imagining it given that someone else has heard it to (in fact the first reaction to listening to the changed orientation was "that is different...what have you done?").

I am not going to go prescriptive on this as I have previously said I believe that the results /benefits will vary depending on ones kit, etc. One just has to try and listen...and then decide. Simples.

 

[CnoEvil]

...I am satisfied that there is a tangible difference and I am not imagining it given that someone else has heard it to (in fact the first reaction to listening to the changed orientation was "that is different...what have you done?").

I am not going to go prescriptive on this as I have previously said I believe that the results /benefits will vary depending on ones kit, etc. One just has to try and listen...and then decide. Simples.

Well Baldrick, I believe your cunning plan is real.