Correct wiring of jumper cables

[shadders]

That is, if the people claim that science cannot disprove that there is a change heard for speaker connections, and science cannot disprove subconscious telepathy exists, then subconscious telepathy is an equal proposition that the other half knew of a change from the person who changed the cable.

So it is quite possible that the people claiming the change exists are prone to the placebo effect, and intimate this to their other half through subconscious telepathy.

Regards,

Shadders.

It's really no wonder we can't win an argument, if telepathy is a more likely hypothesis than "we actually heard it".

Hi,

I am just trying to apply the open mind approach on what is possible. Science states the change should not affect the sound, people claim it does - so i have proposed an alternative. This alternative is valid and equaly probable - that is all.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[busb]

Indeed. There is a difference between what is possible & what is plausible. IIRC, there's no scientific explanation for acupuncture but its benefits aren't doubted by many scientists. Oil companies employ dousers - no scientific reason to do so apart from hedging their bets. Science is more than capable of denying the existence of anything lacking "prove". Many scientists believe in God. My world isn't in black & white nor are most peoples.

There are some forum objectivists who believe that all amps adhering to a certain specification by definition sound the same & that all modern DACs sound identical. Many of these folk don't always practice what they preach: their list of equipment is often the give-away in their sigs.

There are some safeguarding reality checks anyone experimenting should carry out such being sceptical as the default, realising that we are easily fooled & always undoing "improvements" should undo the perceived benefits. I rarely hear perceived improvements straight after doing them but may well do days later - one reason I'm sceptical of DB ABX relying on short-term memory.

Hi,

My proposal is possible and probable - equally to the people who claim there is a difference and their other half stating what has changed.

My post was to highlight that people are prone to the placebo affect, and if the other half recognised this, that the recoginition could be due to subconscious effects.

There are reports of twins knowing what the other is thinking in specific circumstances, or aware that an event has happened to the other person, people knowing what someone is going to say before they state it, and people knowing that someone is about to telephone them and then receive that call.

As with some of the examples you have provided - there is no scientific proof - but the placebo effect is provable, and is scientifically recognised.

The topolgy of an amplifier can vary - there are so many combinations of resistors, capacitors and semiconductors that constitute an amplifier - so similar measured performance does not guarantee that they will sound the same, but the hifi reviews i do read - especially a group test, in some circumstances, the changes do not seem too great for similar amplifiers - power houses - with multiple output devices as an example.

With speaker connections - not the cable, just the connection - a hard wired piece of metal less than 2 inches connecting either top to bottom, or vice versa at the speaker terminals - to produce the changes as stated by some people - would have to be discussed.

Regards,

Shadders

Placebo effect & expectation bias certainly exists - hence a healthy dose of scepticism helps lessen it. Regarding amplifiers, some will argue that whatever the topology used, if they measure the same, they must sound the same - simples. Many engineers snort at the notion that existing measurement techniques aren't fit for purpose. Some very well-known design engineers such as Baxandall were extremely dismissive of subjectivism. Many speaker manufacturers reject designs that measure well but don't sound that great. One designer, John Westlake has well-honed technical skill, uses measurements to refine his designs but also uses his ears & takes note of his customer's feedback. Sometimes, I wish the world was in black & white!

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi,

I am just trying to apply the open mind approach on what is possible. Science states the change should not affect the sound, people claim it does - so i have proposed an alternative. This alternative is valid and equaly probable - that is all.

Regards,

Shadders.

I was being a touch facetious.

It's feels at times, like being an innocent and frustrated defendant in a court case, where nobody believes their alibi (except for family).

I suspect science probably can explain, but us mere mortals aren't equiped to debate it on equal footing / standing with somebody qualified. Qualified people can get it wrong, and frequently do (that is not having a pop btw).

FWIW I do appreciate your polite, respectful and objective approach.

 

[hifikrazy]

Been researching this topic recently with my new Wharfedale Jade 5 speakers. I am trying to find the best way to single wire to the Jade's biwire terminals with jumpers in use. Wharfedale's user manual advices to connect the positive cable to treble terminal and negative cable to bass terminal. This is consistent with many of the posts in this thread, and also with advice given on The Chord Company's and Audioquest's website. However I came across this http://www.nordost.com/downloads/NorseJumperinstructions.pdf which proposes the opposite ie. positive cable to bass terminal and negative cable to treble terminal.

I did give the Nordost way a shot and seem to prefer this method to the one in Wharfedale's user manual. I wonder if anyone else has tried this? For those currently using the cross wiring method, it's something worth a try, after all it costs nothing other than time.

 

[phc251212]

Hi there - just curious to know what the tellurium cable was like when u terminated it - amything unusal or just two strands of copper wire? How thick etc?

Cheers

 

[SunnyCyprus]

You know it's a slow day when you can be bothered to read most of the way through threads like this and oh look another AVI thread oh dear oh dear oh dear

 

[mikeparker59]

Tried all possible permutations on a pair of mordaunt-Short Aviano 2's and found... absolutely no difference.

The manual that comes with the speakers shows an illustration for single wiring where the cables go into the High Frequency terminals on the speakers but I can't actually see anything in writing that says this is the only way to wire them. In any case I really can't see why it should make a difference. oh I've also replaced the metal jumpers with speaker cable and again can't hear any difference.

Somehow I feel somewhat deprived

 

[adamrobertshaw]

I'm going to try this method of positive to high and negative to low.

I had always bi-wired my MA GX50 as this is what is suggested in the manual. No suggestion for single wired.

But What HiFi suggest single wired in their GX50 review.

My Audiolab 8200A manual suggested single wired to positive terminals. So I did and the sound was more cohesive and organised as What HiFi suggested it would be.

 

[hifikrazy]

I'm going to try this method of positive to high and negative to low.

I had always bi-wired my MA GX50 as this is what is suggested in the manual. No suggestion for single wired.

But What HiFi suggest single wired in their GX50 review.

My Audiolab 8200A manual suggested single wired to positive terminals. So I did and the sound was more cohesive and organised as What HiFi suggested it would be.

What do you mean single wired to positive terminals? Have a go at positive to low and negative to high as well. I found that to be the better option for my Wharfedales, contrary to what the user manual suggested.

 

[adamrobertshaw]

I meant to write single wired to high terminals.

Tried using positive to high and negative to low for a few hours today.

Bass seems a touch richer and stronger. The mids are the same as before.

The highs seem more isolated from the mids / bass. But the ribbon tweeters have always had this character.