Correct wiring of jumper cables

[andyjm]

There are now two threads running on the 'front page' on subjects that have no engineering basis whatsoever - interestingly with many of the same participants.

Now my knowledge may be 20 years out of date, but I can see no basis for changing my mains cable, or getting rid of metal jumpers. If anything, replacing a nice thick metal jumper tightly clamped under a binding post with a length of cable can only increase resistance (if only marginally) and thereby reduce sound quality, not improve it.

Now I keep an open mind, and if anyone can link to real study (not a group with an axe to grind such as a mag selling advertising or a cable seller) that can show that either a different mains cable or fiddling with speaker jumpers makes any difference, I wil eat my words.

Otherwise, I am afraid the same suggestion bias that makes enthusiasts rave over speaker cable / mains cable / interconnects is at work with jumpers.

Links anyone?

 

[hoopsontoast]

There are now two threads running on the 'front page' on subjects that have no engineering basis whatsoever - interestingly with many of the same participants.

Now my knowledge may be 20 years out of date, but I can see no basis for changing my mains cable, or getting rid of metal jumpers. If anything, replacing a nice thick metal jumper tightly clamped under a binding post with a length of cable can only increase resistance (if only marginally) and thereby reduce sound quality, not improve it.

Now I keep an open mind, and if anyone can link to real study (not a group with an axe to grind such as a mag selling advertising or a cable seller) that can show that either a different mains cable or fiddling with speaker jumpers makes any difference, I wil eat my words.

Otherwise, I am afraid the same suggestion bias that makes enthusiasts rave over speaker cable / mains cable / interconnects is at work with jumpers.

Links anyone?

I think you are missing the point. If they have heard a difference, and are willing to pay lots for extra/posh cable and are happy with that then thats up to them.

I personally have not heard any difference with power cables, posh Interconnects or speaker cable so I dont spend the money on it.

I have not seen any technical explination on why a power cable that provided it was up to CE standard would make any difference, same with any other wiring, USB and digital interconnects for example.

Audio / Hearing is entirely subjective.

 

[Al ears]

There are now two threads running on the 'front page' on subjects that have no engineering basis whatsoever - interestingly with many of the same participants.

Now my knowledge may be 20 years out of date, but I can see no basis for changing my mains cable, or getting rid of metal jumpers. If anything, replacing a nice thick metal jumper tightly clamped under a binding post with a length of cable can only increase resistance (if only marginally) and thereby reduce sound quality, not improve it.

Now I keep an open mind, and if anyone can link to real study (not a group with an axe to grind such as a mag selling advertising or a cable seller) that can show that either a different mains cable or fiddling with speaker jumpers makes any difference, I wil eat my words.

Otherwise, I am afraid the same suggestion bias that makes enthusiasts rave over speaker cable / mains cable / interconnects is at work with jumpers.

Links anyone?

I think you are missing the point and it is you who are trying to hijack this thread and turn it into a cable debate.

Read the OPs first post again. He clearly states that he has heard an improvement by wiring up his speakers with jumpers he already owned, in a manner which his friend suggested. He wants to know if anyone else has found this.:doh:

 

[Baldrick1]

I think you are missing the point and it is you who are trying to hijack this thread and turn it into a cable debate.

Read the OPs first post again. He clearly states that he has heard an improvement by wiring up his speakers with jumpers he already owned, in a manner which his friend suggested. He wants to know if anyone else has found this.:doh:

Agreed...all the majority of the contributors are doing IMHO are expressing interest, checking understanding, gathering information, etc., on what was stated in the OP...and I am sure that some of us will be off to try this to see if there is any difference when this is applied to our own systems. I personally have an open mind re. this and if it works out that it does improve the sound on MY system then excellent...but if not (but others say it does for them) then there is nothing lost other than a small amount of money (in comparison to the cost of the system...in most cases).

Back to theorising...before the experiment.

 

[andyjm]

No intent to hijack, just pointing out the similarity in posters on the two theads and the underlying subject's lack of engineering basis. Please ignore any comment made on mains cables.

You made the comment that you have been gathering information and checking understanding. What do you understand the effect to be of replacing metal shorting jumpers with speaker cable?

 

[Al ears]

No intent to hijack, just pointing out the similarity in posters on the two theads and the underlying subject's lack of engineering basis. Please ignore any comment made on mains cables.

You made the comment that you have been gathering information and checking understanding. What do you understand the effect to be of replacing metal shorting jumpers with speaker cable?

And there was me thinking you were not going to turn this into a cables debate! :wall:

 

[Vizzage]

I thought it was me who was trying to hijack the thread! Sales people are the only friends my granny has. I'm going to replace the bell wire and go back to jumpers. Cheers all

 

[andyjm]

Well, a number of the post above do refer to the apparent improvements of replacing jumpers with cable.......

But let me go back to the OP, who was unsure how to plug the cables into his speaker and thought by moving the cables there was an 'instantly noticable change'

I am afraid that absent very poor connections between the binding posts on his speakers, the likely change in resistance is so small as to be negligable.

So I suppose my question is what caused the OP to experience such a change?

 

[nopiano]

No intent to hijack, just pointing out the similarity in posters on the two theads and the underlying subject's lack of engineering basis. Please ignore any comment made on mains cables.

You made the comment that you have been gathering information and checking understanding. What do you understand the effect to be of replacing metal shorting jumpers with speaker cable?

There is probably no engineering basis for a 300 year old violin sounding better than a new one. But don't expect any of the world's leading violinists to believe that when they carry their million dollar Strads everywhere. Listening 'tests' often fail here too - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stradivarius#Comparisons_in_sound_quality

Sound, and our emotional connections with music, are way more subtle than your simple electrical measurements will ever reveal in our lifetimes, IMO.

 

[hoopsontoast]

No intent to hijack, just pointing out the similarity in posters on the two theads and the underlying subject's lack of engineering basis. Please ignore any comment made on mains cables.

You made the comment that you have been gathering information and checking understanding. What do you understand the effect to be of replacing metal shorting jumpers with speaker cable?

There is probably no engineering basis for a 300 year old violin sounding better than a new one. But don't expect any of the world's leading violinists to believe that when they carry their million dollar Strads everywhere. Listening 'tests' often fail here too - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stradivarius#Comparisons_in_sound_quality

Sound, and our emotional connections with music, are way more subtle than your simple electrical measurements will ever reveal in our lifetimes, IMO.

I think thats called supply and demand. And also a musical instrument has a sound, every one (being made of a different peice of wood) in this case will sound slightly different, so ones made in a 10 year period in the 1600's are likely to sound similar rather than ones made 300 years later.

Speaker cables and any other cable (USB, Mains etc) in theory do not have a sound*

*At least unless they are designed to (high capacitance etc)

 

[shadders]

Hi,

Has the OP checked inside his speaker and confirmed that the pairs of binding posts are not already connected together.

Sometimes - dual binding posts for each connection is solely there for bi-wiring and internally there is only a single cable.

It would be funny if this was the case.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi all, I find it truly amazing that the idea of me hearing a difference can bring out the right wing of the audiophile movement. Surely forcing opinions on other people is a bit harsh considering I originally suggested that this shouldn't become a " do cables make a difference" debate. I have also checked that there isn't just a cable joining the binding posts inside the speaker. If I only connect to one set of posts I either get bass or treble, not both.

I eagerly await the responses from the right wingers out there. Suggesting they shouldnt join in on my original debate will surely get them typing with venom.

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi all, I find it truly amazing that the idea of me hearing a difference can bring out the right wing of the audiophile movement. Surely forcing opinions on other people is a bit harsh considering I originally suggested that this shouldn't become a " do cables make a difference" debate. I have also checked that there isn't just a cable joining the binding posts inside the speaker. If I only connect to one set of posts I either get bass or treble, not both.

I eagerly await the responses from the right wingers out there. Suggesting they shouldnt join in on my original debate will surely get them typing with venom.

I am constantly being told that what I'm experiencing is scientifically impossible.........I've put it down to being nuts!

 

[Anonymous]

i hope there is an engineering basis for your claim of insanity. lol

 

[Anonymous]

i hope there is an engineering basis for your claim of insanity. lol

 

[Anonymous]

Oops

 

[shadders]

Hi all, I find it truly amazing that the idea of me hearing a difference can bring out the right wing of the audiophile movement. Surely forcing opinions on other people is a bit harsh considering I originally suggested that this shouldn't become a " do cables make a difference" debate. I have also checked that there isn't just a cable joining the binding posts inside the speaker. If I only connect to one set of posts I either get bass or treble, not both.

I eagerly await the responses from the right wingers out there. Suggesting they shouldnt join in on my original debate will surely get them typing with venom.

Hi,

This is not right wing movement - just people questioning the facts - healthy scepticism.

So you connect the positive amp output to the treble, the negative amp output to the base, and wire between the same coloured pair binding posts ?

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[Baldrick1]

[Hi,

This is not right wing movement - just people questioning the facts - healthy scepticism.

So you connect the positive amp output to the treble, the negative amp output to the base, and wire between the same coloured pair binding posts ?

Regards,

Shadders.

Hi Shadders

Yup, that is exactly how I understand it. Normally you connect the Red & Black to one of the sets of terminals (usually advised as the lower set that are LF specific) and would place the jumpers between the same colured pair of terminals. All that is being suggested is that it may work better if the Red banana plug goes to the upper (or HF) Red terminal whilst the Black banana plug remains on the lower (or LF) Black terminal.

I am going to try both methods and see if there is a difference...having made sure to deactivate the built in Link feature on my Q300s. :bounce:

Regards

Balders

 

[Anonymous]

Yes shadders, that's exactly how I have them wired.

Healthy sceptism is fine. Telling me I can't hear a difference is a bit much. There is no engineering basis for self awareness and so on.

 

[shadders]

Yes shadders, that's exactly how I have them wired.

Healthy sceptism is fine. Telling me I can't hear a difference is a bit much. There is no engineering basis for self awareness and so on.

Hi,

Technically there is a difference - the link whether cable or metal plate will have a minute amount of inductance.

Whether this can be heard is another question.

So people on this forum may be sceptical based on whether the difference heard is actual or imagined.

I have never heard any differences with cables - so this change you are hearing will be completely lost on me.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[Singslinger]

My local Spendor dealer wires all the speakers in his showroom in the same manner as the OP suggests because he has found an improvement in sound quality. I have tried it but am unsure if it makes a difference; however, I have found that replacing the stock jumpers with a set from either Chord or Kimber make a very noticeable improvement.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Am I missing the point here?

If I conect one speaker cable to the red or plus terminal on the "treble" side of the crossover and the other to the black on the "bass" side of the crossover, BUT I then jumper red-to-red and black-to-black, does it actually make any difference?

 

[Baldrick1]

Apparently...or so some folks advise...but best give it a go yourself and see if you can hear a difference.

That is what I am planning to do as soon as I sort myself out some jumpers...now same cable as the main cabling or a stock set of Chords or the like...:?

 

[BigColz]

Ahhh I get it now.... I'll try it when I can be bothered to get some jumpers.. I don't think it's ridiculous to think having shielded cable made of the same material (inductance, capacitance etc) as the speaker cable linking them superior to a lump of plated unshielded metal.

 

[Al ears]

Ahhh I get it now.... I'll try it when I can be bothered to get some jumpers.. I don't think it's ridiculous to think having shielded cable made of the same material (inductance, capacitance etc) as the speaker cable linking them superior to a lump of plated unshielded metal.

Quie right BigColz. There are some people who say they have heard an improvement without actually changing out the 'lump of plated unshielded metal', just connecting the way described. Try it and see, that way it will not cost a penny.

It is also interesting to see that many of the 'higher end' speaker manufacturers (particularly the French ones funnily enough) are moving towards using actual cable (the same as they use to internally wire their speakers) in place of bent bits of plated sheet / rods as the means of interconnecting.