CD players are they still worth buying now theres other media

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Anonymous

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crusaderlord:i am not saying DAC's are not the future at all - im just saying that no-one should be worrying about the value of their cd player yet.

That's basically the crux of the matter.
 

Ajani

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Apr 9, 2008
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crusaderlord:I agree, the point i make is that DAC's are even more niche in the marketplace at the moment, and much more so than CD's and CD players.

The general public know and understand cd's and cd players and many are actually interested (albeit low in priority) in getting better cd players to improve their set up. However pretty much no-one seems remotely interested in DAC's.

The future of CD player is very much still in place for a few years yet. It will take a long term shift in general understanding to change all this.

Please note i am not saying DAC's are not the future at all - im just saying that no-one should be worrying about the value of their cd player yet.

I don't think the general public care about either CD Players or DACs.... Most people I know, use DVD players to play their CDs or don't play CDs at all & use ipods...
 
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Anonymous

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With the younger generation becoming so used to ilegally downloading low-bitrate MP3s (usually via LimeWire or the like) then sticking them onto their iPod and playing it through the bundled headphones they just do not know what they are missing out on. Also, being kids, they don't like to listen--therefore not wanting to know how bad their system really is. They just don't know how good they're music could really sound if they just forked out for the CDs and ripped them to lossless (or downloaded FLAC rips
) and then bought a pair of good, budget earphones and then listened to their music from their iPod.
 

SteveR750

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Mar 11, 2005
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randydevilad:
RIGHT SHOULDENT WE GET BACK TO THE ORIGINAL QUESTION BEFORE SOMEONES MOANS ITS A DIFFERENT TREAD?

Now that single music CD's are being stopped, is it still worth spending out on a good CD Player! As it seems people are using other formats! I feel a bit sick as ive just brought the Rega Apollo 35th Edition play £660.

What do you guys think regarding CD's are they going to dissapear!

Bit late to this, but I can assure you that a properly set up media player streaming accurately ripped lossless files through a suitable sound card / driver in a PC will trounce a £600 CD player no matter who makes it. It's trounced my 5 star multi award winning £900 CD player, with ease I should add.

I get your points about owning something tangible, and operating a machine designed to play them, but if you are deciding on SQ alone, then file streaming is all you ever need. I suspect it won't be long before manufacturers are making CD players with media players built in. The transport will rip your music, and then play losslessly into either an integrated DAC as now, or a separate one as all PC users are doing currently. I would also expect to see a whole new set of separate bespoke "media centre" boxes that take your stored files and stream them direct to analogue or digi out. So devices as simple to use as a CD player, with a SQ that most of us dream about at the moment, which for the majority of non audiophile folk that simply want a good sounding system will be probably what they want.
 
T

the record spot

Guest
randydevilad:
Now that single music CD's are being stopped, is it still worth spending out on a good CD Player! As it seems people are using other formats! I feel a bit sick as ive just brought the Rega Apollo 35th Edition play £660.

What do you guys think regarding CD's are they going to dissapear!

Can't recall if I replied to this, but I the Rega 35th Ann'y edition's been out for a while. Audiolab (and AVI speakers previously with their onboard DAC) have kind of shown the way for source digital components for me.

Leema turned out the Antilla which no doubt is a fine disc spinner, but people are expecting more and for £2.5k, a similar DAC arrangement as per the 8200Cd surely wasn't completely off the radar? I'd almost put good money down that the next incarnation of the Antilla probably will. The same applies to a bunch of other brands out there. Can't see me replacing the SA7001-KI with a standard disc spinner next time. Most likely, I'll go with either a cheap netbook laptop, stick the external HDD on it, run a source music program and get a great DAC, OR, get the 8200CD to handle both if the Marantz keels over in the next year (unlikely I think!).
 

juxter1

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Sep 3, 2010
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What I find very hard to get my head around is the price of cd players, some very expensive kit out there.

I also find it amazing that people say that ripping their cd's and storing them as flacs sound as good, if not better than the cd it came from.

Don't get me wrong, I have a Linn DS-I and a network drive that I am filling with flacs from my cd's and I do find it hard to hear any difference between any formats apart from mp3's where there is a noticable drop in quality.

The real thing I don't understand is that 99% of all ripping and encoding into flacs is done on a pc. The humble dvd rom drives that nearly everyone uses to rip their cd's is in no way, no matter what universe you come from, as expensive or as supposedly advanced as a top end player. Yet that is where most ripping is done and there are numerous people who say that the sound quality is as good or better than their own standalone players.

Could anyone explain the discrepancy in that? An expensive cd player or an inexpensive dvd rom with ripping software producing very close audio quality?
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
juxter1:
I also find it amazing that people say that ripping their cd's and storing them as flacs sound as good, if not better than the cd it came from.

Don't get me wrong, I have a Linn DS-I and a network drive that I am filling with flacs from my cd's and I do find it hard to hear any difference between any formats apart from mp3's where there is a noticable drop in quality.

The real thing I don't understand is that 99% of all ripping and encoding into flacs is done on a pc. The humble dvd rom drives that nearly everyone uses to rip their cd's is in no way, no matter what universe you come from, as expensive or as supposedly advanced as a top end player. Yet that is where most ripping is done and there are numerous people who say that the sound quality is as good or better than their own standalone players.

Could anyone explain the discrepancy in that? An expensive cd player or an inexpensive dvd rom with ripping software producing very close audio quality?

You just need a competent computer drive to rip cds from - not bells and whistles. If it copies the cd content accurately then it has copied the cd content accurately. It's replay where the SQ considerations come in - and your PC DVD drive is not involved in that. I both stream (using a 1K streamer/DAC) and use CDs (using a £1500 cdp).

I wouldn't say one is better than the other. I tend to use the cdp out of habit more than anything but I should make a decision to go one way or the other as I've two units/shelves on the rack essentially playing from the same source!
 

SteveR750

Well-known member
Mar 11, 2005
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juxter1:
What I find very hard to get my head around is the price of cd players, some very expensive kit out there.

I also find it amazing that people say that ripping their cd's and storing them as flacs sound as good, if not better than the cd it came from.

Don't get me wrong, I have a Linn DS-I and a network drive that I am filling with flacs from my cd's and I do find it hard to hear any difference between any formats apart from mp3's where there is a noticable drop in quality.

The real thing I don't understand is that 99% of all ripping and encoding into flacs is done on a pc. The humble dvd rom drives that nearly everyone uses to rip their cd's is in no way, no matter what universe you come from, as expensive or as supposedly advanced as a top end player. Yet that is where most ripping is done and there are numerous people who say that the sound quality is as good or better than their own standalone players.

Could anyone explain the discrepancy in that? An expensive cd player or an inexpensive dvd rom with ripping software producing very close audio quality?

Because in simpe terms, a CD player has to read and stream the data and make real time error correction. No matter how well built the transport, there will be errors in reading the data, and there simply isn't time for the transport to go back and re-read the data on the disc.

When you rip the data, the data can be rad, re-read and re-read as many times as needed to ensure the data is correct as it is not streaming the data into a DAC. Providing you use good ripping software (many will refer to EAC as a good example) then you should get 100% accurate data (or bit perfect data) off the disc. If you then use a decent media player, you can get the same bit perfect data streamed to your DAC, by which times it's all about conventional hardware again.
 

juxter1

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Sep 3, 2010
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I fully understand the principle behind the accuracy of the drives used in pc's. What I don't understand is the prices of the standalone units cd players against the price of the pc, and software.

Surely it can't cost anywhere near the amounts that the top end hi fi companies charge for their wares when you can get a very close match using almost any old drive in a pc. They seem to be cutting their own throats by not making things a lot more affordable to the general public. If the cost of the electronics is so high and the components can be nearly matched by using a pc and a good streaming device then surely the cost has to come down to prevent extinction.

Cd's will be around for a while but in light of the new batch of streaming devices it would be financial suicide to keep asking people to pay so much for equipment when technology can be so closely equalled for so much less.

I don't want to see the end of manufacturers producing good quality equipment but surely they have to keep an eye on the future. I would never ditch my cd player but I have found that since getting a Linn that I don't use it.
 

SteveR750

Well-known member
Mar 11, 2005
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I think you miss the point...

A cd player cannot use any old drive, in fact the drive is critical, something which Cyrus have focused on. If you are ripping then frankly one made of chocolate will work so long as it eventually reads the data. This is at least one explanation for the difference in cost, the other might be the millions of PCs being manufactured and sold which must be orders or magnitude greater than all of the CDPs put together. Remember though that streaming still required a DAC, and not just any old DAC, a shiny hugely expensively dsigned HI FI DAC.....so your £400 Dell aint much use unless you've got at least £250 worth of DAC hanging off it. The advantage comes when upgrading the DAC with the same £400 Dell, as this is hopefully much cheaper than changing both parts of the source, and of course has the added benefit of being able to amuse yourself on forums like this with it
 

juxter1

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Sep 3, 2010
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Good answer, when it comes to the economics then I would have thought that someone would produce a cd player with a 1 gig memory buffer so the cd could be read to that and played as accurately as possible. An onboard DAC and the right software for coping with DRM and that would be a winner all round.

Anyone want to buy my patent for it?
 

SteveR750

Well-known member
Mar 11, 2005
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juxter1:
Good answer, when it comes to the economics then I would have thought that someone would produce a cd player with a 1 gig memory buffer so the cd could be read to that and played as accurately as possible. An onboard DAC and the right software for coping with DRM and that would be a winner all round.

Anyone want to buy my patent for it?

No one who wanted their CD player to work at the command of pressing a button.....
 

seasiders rock

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Feb 21, 2009
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Have to say yes.

Latest box swap was the Katana SE, at just over £300 probably the best player that has graced my equipment rack.

If you think all CD Players sound the same think again, the detail, bass slam and sound stage it creates is simply awesome.

The majority of my discs ( 900 + and growing ) were bought at very silly prices when i lived in Camden Town, now mostly sourced from that well known auction site, again cheaply.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Hello randydevilad, you haven't made a big mistake. It seems that now the hi-fi brands, paying attention to the way in which people listen to the music, have decided to not produce cd players. Linn, for example. It would seem that now people would use servers, ipods,...You have bought a great player in which you must put the cd from above. (smile)

I haven't download ever the music from emule or...Maybe I have been so silly like Larry Heard with his naif House. It has been my way. I have enough music how to die in peace. It is a cultural question. In music there is a value. That's why I think that I must pay for it, if I want to have it. Other question is the price. At 15 euros a cd or more I won't buy music!. I have enough!.

Enjoy your Rega Apollo, randydevilad. Life is beautiful with moments of this kind!.

Best wishes from Salamanca, SPAIN!!!.
 

ID.

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Feb 22, 2010
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Esoteric haven't gone down the track of cutting out CDPs and moving to streaming and other digital sources, but their latest CDPs also give you access to their advanced DACs. I believe they are also implemented so as to allow 24/192 via USB.

Until it can be done in a relatively plug-and-play manner like getting a digital feed from my iPod )no faffng around with wireless networks or having the computer on) I don't think streaming from a PC is going to become mainstream just yet. At the moment I'd say I do most of my listening with a digital feed from my iPod, but still use CDs occasionally, particularly when I decide to listen to a whole album (or a SACD release)
 

manicm

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May 1, 2008
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I think once streaming solutions mature for the average buyer - they're still too complex and ironically increase box count and power consumption what with NASs etc, manufacturers will scale CD players down. I have to admire Linn's big Up Yours to the rest of the industry having giving CDPs the boot, but even if I could afford it their DS solution still intimidates me. I'm no Luddite, I'm in IT. But I believe Hifi should be as simple as possible.

Linn are at the cutting edge, which is a bit too sharp for me, but kudos to them and their suckers, sorry customers.
 

juxter1

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Sep 3, 2010
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Actually, the Linn is surprisingly easy to set up.

If you can set up a network between computers then it all fits into place. If I can do it then it must be fairly straightforward.

And when it comes to the box count, 1 nas, 1 amp with everything included in it and any other components you want to use such as cd player (not really needed though) and able to connect a turntable without having to resort to a phono amp. The dac is built in so no need for an external one. All you need to do is add the speakers of choice.

The Linn actually makes hifi even me think I have been missing the point of drooling over high end separates.

A huge bonus is not having to have all your cd's downstairs taking up space. But maybe that's just me.

And, yes, I love the sound it produces too.
 

SteveR750

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Mar 11, 2005
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manicm:
I think once streaming solutions mature for the average buyer - they're still too complex and ironically increase box count and power consumption what with NASs etc, manufacturers will scale CD players down. I have to admire Linn's big Up Yours to the rest of the industry having giving CDPs the boot, but even if I could afford it their DS solution still intimidates me. I'm no Luddite, I'm in IT. But I believe Hifi should be as simple as possible.

Linn are at the cutting edge, which is a bit too sharp for me, but kudos to them and their suckers, sorry customers.

I agree, a NAS / Streamer / DAC with a CD transport for ripping discs to your NAS (though maybe at some point in time the CD will be replaced by a type of SD card that you plug into your NAS and upload in seconds. Place it back in its nice compact case with sleeve art and information in a smaller more compact box, made from say PP not the nasty brittle polystyrene that CD jewel cases are made of (a la Blu ray discs). A cupboard full of hi def audio, stored in a medium that is cheaper to manufacture than discs, easier to look after and takes up less room.
 

audioaffair

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We're seeing that there are still customers who love the purity of a CD only machine but there is a definite shift for some people to a CD player that incorporates some additional connectivity for streaming files through its DAC or for your home network. Over the next 1-2 years, we expect (and hear) there will be many more CD players that are marketed as players/streamers and include several digital inputs and possibly network RJ45 connectivity as well.
 

manicm

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May 1, 2008
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audioaffair:We're seeing that there are still customers who love the purity of a CD only machine but there is a definite shift for some people to a CD player that incorporates some additional connectivity for streaming files through its DAC or for your home network. Over the next 1-2 years, we expect (and hear) there will be many more CD players that are marketed as players/streamers and include several digital inputs and possibly network RJ45 connectivity as well.

For me personally, it's about convenience. I'd like to rip my CDs, play them back as files, and store them away indefinitely. It's a pain to change CDs when I'm not listening to entire albums at a time.

I will never buy any sort of primary CD player again. It all seems so archaic now.
 

SteveR750

Well-known member
Mar 11, 2005
560
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audioaffair:We're seeing that there are still customers who love the purity of a CD only machine but there is a definite shift for some people to a CD player that incorporates some additional connectivity for streaming files through its DAC or for your home network. Over the next 1-2 years, we expect (and hear) there will be many more CD players that are marketed as players/streamers and include several digital inputs and possibly network RJ45 connectivity as well.

Streaming via a network is definitely one of the more attractive ways forward - ease of use, the way the data is processed etc so a win win in terms of ease of use, integration and audio signal quality
 

dibdab

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May 26, 2009
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I defintely won't be buying another cd player when mine dies, I very much like the idea of going down the streaming route, it will be nice to have all my music on a nas with streamers in every room.
 

SteveR750

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Mar 11, 2005
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dibdab:I defintely won't be buying another cd player when mine dies, I very much like the idea of going down the streaming route, it will be nice to have all my music on a nas with streamers in every room.

If this was a gardening forum would that be a strimmer in every room...
 

Gerrardasnails

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Sep 6, 2007
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manicm:
I think once streaming solutions mature for the average buyer - they're still too complex and ironically increase box count and power consumption what with NASs etc, manufacturers will scale CD players down. I have to admire Linn's big Up Yours to the rest of the industry having giving CDPs the boot, but even if I could afford it their DS solution still intimidates me. I'm no Luddite, I'm in IT. But I believe Hifi should be as simple as possible.

Linn are at the cutting edge, which is a bit too sharp for me, but kudos to them and their suckers, sorry customers.

I don't think it will be long. My first streaming system was a Media Center Extender and at the time I only had a G rated router (and the Linksys was the same). There was no drop out or loss of sound and it was a simple set up. Amazingly now, a few years down the line and media players don't seem to be that much, if any further forward. However, external HDD's are now so small and so cheap that having one attached to your media player removes the need to stream and adds more choices. Three years ago with a Media Center Extender I could stream WMA Lossless and WAV files but no FLAC, audio was defaulted by Microsoft to 48khz, regardless of the file and I couldn't play any HD videos. Now, I get all that I need and although streaming is of the same level, I never need to stream or need my PC turned on.
 

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