I'd also like to say chebby that I really enjoy reading your posts and agree with you on most points!
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Pmaninit:I ripped all of my CDs and sold them on ebay
Which we do of course have to point out breaks copyright law.
Which we do of course have to point out breaks copyright law.
chebby
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Andrew Everard:
Pmaninit:I ripped all of my CDs and sold them on ebay
Which we do of course have to point out breaks copyright law.
I always thought a personal copy of any material you have purchased was okay so long as copies are not sold or the material played publicly or played for a fee.
Pmaninit:I ripped all of my CDs and sold them on ebay
Which we do of course have to point out breaks copyright law.
I always thought a personal copy of any material you have purchased was okay so long as copies are not sold or the material played publicly or played for a fee.
John Duncan
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Andrew Everard:
Pmaninit:I ripped all of my CDs
Which we do of course have to point out breaks copyright law.
Pmaninit:I ripped all of my CDs
Which we do of course have to point out breaks copyright law.
John Duncan
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chebby:Andrew Everard:
Pmaninit:I ripped all of my CDs and sold them on ebay
Which we do of course have to point out breaks copyright law.
I always thought a personal copy of any material you have purchased was okay so long as copies are not sold or played publicly or played for a fee.
Not in the UK, not for music. Software, yes. Daft but true.
Pmaninit:I ripped all of my CDs and sold them on ebay
Which we do of course have to point out breaks copyright law.
I always thought a personal copy of any material you have purchased was okay so long as copies are not sold or played publicly or played for a fee.
Not in the UK, not for music. Software, yes. Daft but true.
chebby
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Okay. This is interesting.
WHF recently published a review of the Sooloos music server and it mentioned the high quality of ripped material (from CD) and outlined the way in which Sooloos will actually rip up to 2500 of your CDs for you, for free (including propagating them to all your Sooloos systems should you be lucky enough to have their systems in all your homes!)
Surely that constitutes a few legal whoopsies? (Or does reporting on - and testing - how you can break the law with your new product not actually constitute a copyright breach? Or does Haymarket pay a copyright fee when it tests such functions?)
WHF recently published a review of the Sooloos music server and it mentioned the high quality of ripped material (from CD) and outlined the way in which Sooloos will actually rip up to 2500 of your CDs for you, for free (including propagating them to all your Sooloos systems should you be lucky enough to have their systems in all your homes!)
Surely that constitutes a few legal whoopsies? (Or does reporting on - and testing - how you can break the law with your new product not actually constitute a copyright breach? Or does Haymarket pay a copyright fee when it tests such functions?)
i think the point is the selling of the cd's but keeping the copy of the music made for you useage.
as long as you buy and keep the cd i believed you can copy it for your wifi set up
as long as you buy and keep the cd i believed you can copy it for your wifi set up
JohnDuncan:chebby:Andrew Everard:
Pmaninit:I ripped all of my CDs and sold them on ebay
Which we do of course have to point out breaks copyright law.
I always thought a personal copy of any material you have purchased was okay so long as copies are not sold or played publicly or played for a fee.
Not in the UK, not for music. Software, yes. Daft but true.
Nowhere in the world, can you legally buy a CD, rip it, and then sell it on.
That is illegal. Anywhere.
When you buy a CD, you're buying the right to listen to the music. When you sell the CD, you relinquish that right. Yes, the law is that simple, and I really don't understand why people find it so difficult to understand...
In many places however, you are entitled to make a backup copy of the CD for archival purposes, but if you sell the original you are legally obliged to destroy the backup.
Pmaninit:I ripped all of my CDs and sold them on ebay
Which we do of course have to point out breaks copyright law.
I always thought a personal copy of any material you have purchased was okay so long as copies are not sold or played publicly or played for a fee.
Not in the UK, not for music. Software, yes. Daft but true.
Nowhere in the world, can you legally buy a CD, rip it, and then sell it on.
That is illegal. Anywhere.
When you buy a CD, you're buying the right to listen to the music. When you sell the CD, you relinquish that right. Yes, the law is that simple, and I really don't understand why people find it so difficult to understand...
In many places however, you are entitled to make a backup copy of the CD for archival purposes, but if you sell the original you are legally obliged to destroy the backup.
Tony_R:JohnDuncan:chebby:Andrew Everard:
Pmaninit:I ripped all of my CDs and sold them on ebay
Which we do of course have to point out breaks copyright law.
I always thought a personal copy of any material you have purchased was okay so long as copies are not sold or played publicly or played for a fee. Not in the UK, not for music. Software, yes. Daft but true.
Nowhere in the world, can you legally buy a CD, rip it, and then sell it on.
That is illegal. Anywhere.
When you buy a CD, you're buying the right to listen to the music. When you sell the CD, you relinquish that right. Yes, the law is that simple, and I really don't understand why people find it so difficult to understand...
In many places however, you are entitled to make a backup copy of the CD for archival purposes, but if you sell the original you are legally obliged to destroy the backup.
I would say you're correct.
Pmaninit:I ripped all of my CDs and sold them on ebay
Which we do of course have to point out breaks copyright law.
I always thought a personal copy of any material you have purchased was okay so long as copies are not sold or played publicly or played for a fee. Not in the UK, not for music. Software, yes. Daft but true.
Nowhere in the world, can you legally buy a CD, rip it, and then sell it on.
That is illegal. Anywhere.
When you buy a CD, you're buying the right to listen to the music. When you sell the CD, you relinquish that right. Yes, the law is that simple, and I really don't understand why people find it so difficult to understand...
In many places however, you are entitled to make a backup copy of the CD for archival purposes, but if you sell the original you are legally obliged to destroy the backup.
I would say you're correct.
RIGHT SHOULDENT WE GET BACK TO THE ORIGINAL QUESTION BEFORE SOMEONES MOANS ITS A DIFFERENT TREAD?
Now that single music CD's are being stopped, is it still worth spending out on a good CD Player! As it seems people are using other formats! I feel a bit sick as ive just brought the Rega Apollo 35th Edition play £660.
What do you guys think regarding CD's are they going to dissapear!
Now that single music CD's are being stopped, is it still worth spending out on a good CD Player! As it seems people are using other formats! I feel a bit sick as ive just brought the Rega Apollo 35th Edition play £660.
What do you guys think regarding CD's are they going to dissapear!
the record spot:chebby:
I wish people would dismiss this notion that computer based music replay is just comprised of compressed MP3 downloads.
Agreed, but for me it's only a convenience that won't surpass CD as my main source. Buy a CD, rip it to a Naim HDX, or a laptop, or a Sonos, or an external hard drive, fiddle about with the software and settings....not quite for me. Maybe handy for multi-room and (good quality) portable listening, but the simplicity of a well built quality CD player with a decent transport is no contest for me.
I can understand the attraction for a lot of people out there and it's horses for courses of course.
I think a lot of the problems people have with music servers is somewhat short-sighted: Ripping is a one time process and then you can listen as much as you want....
Also, ripping can be very easy: I don't fiddle with software settings... I just put a CD into my laptop and itunes automatically opens, rips the CD to lossless, stores it on my external hard drive and ejects the CD... then the SlimServer software for my Squeezebox automatically syncs to my itunes... All I do is put in the CD.... You can even automate backup of your music collection....
Also if you use a USB DAC instead of a Squeezebox or other streamer, then once Itunes rips the first track it can autoplay it... so you don't even have to wait for the entire album to rip, before you start hearing music....
I wish people would dismiss this notion that computer based music replay is just comprised of compressed MP3 downloads.
Agreed, but for me it's only a convenience that won't surpass CD as my main source. Buy a CD, rip it to a Naim HDX, or a laptop, or a Sonos, or an external hard drive, fiddle about with the software and settings....not quite for me. Maybe handy for multi-room and (good quality) portable listening, but the simplicity of a well built quality CD player with a decent transport is no contest for me.
I can understand the attraction for a lot of people out there and it's horses for courses of course.
I think a lot of the problems people have with music servers is somewhat short-sighted: Ripping is a one time process and then you can listen as much as you want....
Also, ripping can be very easy: I don't fiddle with software settings... I just put a CD into my laptop and itunes automatically opens, rips the CD to lossless, stores it on my external hard drive and ejects the CD... then the SlimServer software for my Squeezebox automatically syncs to my itunes... All I do is put in the CD.... You can even automate backup of your music collection....
Also if you use a USB DAC instead of a Squeezebox or other streamer, then once Itunes rips the first track it can autoplay it... so you don't even have to wait for the entire album to rip, before you start hearing music....
Unfortunately, it also robs you of the whole enjoyment of looking at the packaging, the LP, CD insert, or whatever. It puts music down to convenience and for the vast majority of people, makes it disposable. Harsh but true in many cases. Perhaps not for people on here, and for me, that's not what I want. I like the formats I have, I use an iPod but it's an ancillary not the main means of listening to music for me. Handy for the train, bus, plane, whatever. Not to replace the current system. Horses, as I keep saying, for courses.
the record spot:Unfortunately, it also robs you of the whole enjoyment of looking at the packaging, the LP, CD insert, or whatever. It puts music down to convenience and for the vast majority of people, makes it disposable. Harsh but true in many cases. Perhaps not for people on here, and for me, that's not what I want. I like the formats I have, I use an iPod but it's an ancillary not the main means of listening to music for me. Handy for the train, bus, plane, whatever. Not to replace the current system. Horses, as I keep saying, for courses.
Agreed.... The real trade off of a music server is that you lose the experience of riffling through a collection of physical media etc... If that's an important part of the whole musical experience for you, then a music server will be disappointing... but if you only care about listening to songs, then a music server is more convenient....
Agreed.... The real trade off of a music server is that you lose the experience of riffling through a collection of physical media etc... If that's an important part of the whole musical experience for you, then a music server will be disappointing... but if you only care about listening to songs, then a music server is more convenient....
Yes for me part of the enjoyment is opening the the case looking at the cover and placing it in the transport, the physical side for me is all part of the enjoyment of listening to a Cd! I get a better feel of the quality too i feel so becomes part of the pleasure of listening to the music! Ive tried to listen to music from the computer but i feel it lacks!
One of the main problems i have with this is the additional expense of forking out for a good external DAC but aside from that, my biggest concern is the ridiculous amount of heat which this computer seems to generate. The flip side of all this is though as more people move towards Dac's the price of nop notch cd players will rapidly slide.
chebby
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randydevilad:
Yes for me part of the enjoyment is opening the the case looking at the cover and placing it in the transport, the physical side for me is all part of the enjoyment of listening to a Cd! I get a better feel of the quality too i feel so becomes part of the pleasure of listening to the music! Ive tried to listen to music from the computer but i feel it lacks!
(a) How do you get that 'feel of the quality' just from holding it?
(b) Us 'evil meanie' listeners to computer based/CD derived/streamed music have our CDs to touch as well. Umpteen boxes of them here. I can go touch one any time. Every time I buy a new CD I get to unwrap it and look at the cover/read the notes, and load it into a tray just like you do. (Or will you still not accept that I am NOT downloading free/bootlegged, poor quality, heavily compressed MP3s like some kid with a pair of £15 plastic PC speakers and a no-name MP3 player bought from the local market!) No. HMV, and Amazon do very well out of me.
When it comes to 'tactile', hands-on experience of media then I far prefer my vinyl.
Yes for me part of the enjoyment is opening the the case looking at the cover and placing it in the transport, the physical side for me is all part of the enjoyment of listening to a Cd! I get a better feel of the quality too i feel so becomes part of the pleasure of listening to the music! Ive tried to listen to music from the computer but i feel it lacks!
(a) How do you get that 'feel of the quality' just from holding it?
(b) Us 'evil meanie' listeners to computer based/CD derived/streamed music have our CDs to touch as well. Umpteen boxes of them here. I can go touch one any time. Every time I buy a new CD I get to unwrap it and look at the cover/read the notes, and load it into a tray just like you do. (Or will you still not accept that I am NOT downloading free/bootlegged, poor quality, heavily compressed MP3s like some kid with a pair of £15 plastic PC speakers and a no-name MP3 player bought from the local market!) No. HMV, and Amazon do very well out of me.
When it comes to 'tactile', hands-on experience of media then I far prefer my vinyl.
I have an Audiolab 8000CD which I bought for £1000 in 1998. I was thinking of replacing that together with the rest of my pre-TAG Audiolab kit 8000S amp and 8000X power amp, and also the Mission 753s, started to work on a £2,500 budget etc and reading mags and websites and even auditioned a few systems.... all very exciting and going swimmingly well until I got an iPhone and my son showed me the joys of iTunes (I am 46 years old)
I bought loads of stuff from iTunes and played them on my iPhone -> Apple Universal Dock -> 3.5mm jack to phono lead -> stereo amp, but something was missing and after learning about compression and bit rates etc, started ripping some familiar CDs into Apple Lossless which made a noticeable improvement to sound quality.
Then I started reading his forum and bought a DACMagic, and everything fell into place in terms of how to store and play my music so I can play them on the home hi-fi as well as on my iPhone when out and about, the central storage area being iTunes.
I have now ripped many of my CDs into Apple Lossless onto my laptop, backed on an external drive plus a home network drive. Songs are played -> laptop -> DAC via USB -> phono into -> amp. It is very convenient way of storing and playing music. I honestly cannot tell the difference between CDs played from my CD player and my laptop ....
......UNTIL I plugged the CD player into the DAC's coxial input -> amp. I might be going mad but I think the DAC has improved the sound!!!! The vocals through the DAC are more "distinct" and the bass is "tighter" than a CD player bought for £1000 ten years ago. It is not necessarily better than iTunes/DAC, just different. Somehow the DAC has done something to the bits from the CD player and made them sound "better" to my ears.
I am in heaven and I have abandoned plans to upgrade my system because I am enjoying listening to my "improved" CD collection via iTunes and DAC. A very long answer to the original question but for me, CDs are not dead but their downward path may well start when more sites offer lossless downloads, and I certainly wouldn't be buying another CD player.
I bought loads of stuff from iTunes and played them on my iPhone -> Apple Universal Dock -> 3.5mm jack to phono lead -> stereo amp, but something was missing and after learning about compression and bit rates etc, started ripping some familiar CDs into Apple Lossless which made a noticeable improvement to sound quality.
Then I started reading his forum and bought a DACMagic, and everything fell into place in terms of how to store and play my music so I can play them on the home hi-fi as well as on my iPhone when out and about, the central storage area being iTunes.
I have now ripped many of my CDs into Apple Lossless onto my laptop, backed on an external drive plus a home network drive. Songs are played -> laptop -> DAC via USB -> phono into -> amp. It is very convenient way of storing and playing music. I honestly cannot tell the difference between CDs played from my CD player and my laptop ....
......UNTIL I plugged the CD player into the DAC's coxial input -> amp. I might be going mad but I think the DAC has improved the sound!!!! The vocals through the DAC are more "distinct" and the bass is "tighter" than a CD player bought for £1000 ten years ago. It is not necessarily better than iTunes/DAC, just different. Somehow the DAC has done something to the bits from the CD player and made them sound "better" to my ears.
I am in heaven and I have abandoned plans to upgrade my system because I am enjoying listening to my "improved" CD collection via iTunes and DAC. A very long answer to the original question but for me, CDs are not dead but their downward path may well start when more sites offer lossless downloads, and I certainly wouldn't be buying another CD player.
Chebby says>
a) How do you get that 'feel of the quality' just from holding it?
WELL HAVE YOU EVER HAD ONE IN YOUR HAND AND FELT ITS WEIGHT!
HAHHAAHAHA GRIN 🙂))) Sorry couldent help it lol
a) How do you get that 'feel of the quality' just from holding it?
WELL HAVE YOU EVER HAD ONE IN YOUR HAND AND FELT ITS WEIGHT!
HAHHAAHAHA GRIN 🙂))) Sorry couldent help it lol
Just to throw an observation here.
You are worried about CD player longevity, and from what i am reading the best alternative to a CD player is lossless files ripped and played back using a separate DAC.
One of the problems for this is - ask most people you know (i did at work) and no-one has hardly any idea what a separate DAC is or what it does. I really wonder what % of the general public (except those really into hi-fi) understand what is needed to get the best alternative to CD anyway.
Until the mass market really understands what we are all talking about i doubt CD player will vanish at all.
You are worried about CD player longevity, and from what i am reading the best alternative to a CD player is lossless files ripped and played back using a separate DAC.
One of the problems for this is - ask most people you know (i did at work) and no-one has hardly any idea what a separate DAC is or what it does. I really wonder what % of the general public (except those really into hi-fi) understand what is needed to get the best alternative to CD anyway.
Until the mass market really understands what we are all talking about i doubt CD player will vanish at all.
Thanks Crusaderlord
Thats a brilliant reply and was helpful and makes sense!
Well im happy with my CD Player, I cant handle all that downloaded stuff as its not the same 🙂
Thats a brilliant reply and was helpful and makes sense!
Well im happy with my CD Player, I cant handle all that downloaded stuff as its not the same 🙂
chebby
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crusaderlord:....ask most people you know (i did at work) and no-one has hardly any idea what a separate DAC is or what it does. I really wonder what % of the general public (except those really into hi-fi) understand what is needed to get the best alternative to CD anyway.
I still come across incredulity from colleagues that turntables still exist let alone that I use one and enjoy playing LPs. They are amazed that you can buy a turntable brand new and utterly fail to see the point. (I am talking about mostly people from their late twenties to guys in their 50s.)
They are equally dumfounded after flicking through some of my hifi mags at the prices. Some think anything more than £200 is sheer insanity (for a whole system) and others think listening to music for pleasure is a bit weird. These same people would not hesitate over spending many £thousands on getting a better car or going on a expensive holiday. It is not a question of their spending power but their priorities. Talk to them about a 50" plasma screen and they would not quibble over spending a fortune on one.
Gauging the future of something like a tiny niche market ('boutique hifi' if you will) is best not done with a cross section of colleagues or the general public.
I still come across incredulity from colleagues that turntables still exist let alone that I use one and enjoy playing LPs. They are amazed that you can buy a turntable brand new and utterly fail to see the point. (I am talking about mostly people from their late twenties to guys in their 50s.)
They are equally dumfounded after flicking through some of my hifi mags at the prices. Some think anything more than £200 is sheer insanity (for a whole system) and others think listening to music for pleasure is a bit weird. These same people would not hesitate over spending many £thousands on getting a better car or going on a expensive holiday. It is not a question of their spending power but their priorities. Talk to them about a 50" plasma screen and they would not quibble over spending a fortune on one.
Gauging the future of something like a tiny niche market ('boutique hifi' if you will) is best not done with a cross section of colleagues or the general public.
I agree, the point i make is that DAC's are even more niche in the marketplace at the moment, and much more so than CD's and CD players.
The general public know and understand cd's and cd players and many are actually interested (albeit low in priority) in getting better cd players to improve their set up. However pretty much no-one seems remotely interested in DAC's.
The future of CD player is very much still in place for a few years yet. It will take a long term shift in general understanding to change all this.
Please note i am not saying DAC's are not the future at all - im just saying that no-one should be worrying about the value of their cd player yet.
The general public know and understand cd's and cd players and many are actually interested (albeit low in priority) in getting better cd players to improve their set up. However pretty much no-one seems remotely interested in DAC's.
The future of CD player is very much still in place for a few years yet. It will take a long term shift in general understanding to change all this.
Please note i am not saying DAC's are not the future at all - im just saying that no-one should be worrying about the value of their cd player yet.
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