Cables, mains, interconnectors and speaker cables

[the record spot]

We've already said we recognise there are very minor differences between cables. So you can stop harping on with the same tired old mantra that "all cables sound the same" which is what you seem to be accusing us of. Everything else is semantics.

And no, I don't think you hear better than anyone else, or that your hearing is more acute to be able to discern something on a disc or LP that someone else in the same room couldn't hear. Physiological reasons aside (e.g. hearing defect). I do however think you're likely to be more obsessive about the hobby and wires in particular. Not my bag at all for the minimal gains they bring.

 

[Golden Ears]

These are the first two sentences of your reply to me. To be clear: people don't have to conform to my perceptions. This is not a matter of perceptions but a matter of what has been tested over and over again and you not being willing to accept the meaning of that there have been hundreds of people like you who have come to realize when confronted with a blind test, that all they thought that was true suddenly vaporizes. All blind tests point in that direction. You fail to grasp the significance of this. Secondly, I didn't imply that you implied to have supernatural abilities. I also suggested that you could be ignorant. That also seems a bit more likely to me, but for all I know you might actually think that you are really special.

I'll leave it at that. No need to further engage in this lunacy.

Blind tests this appears to be the ammo and it's totally invalid. I'm not interested in trying to identify someone's trickery to disprove differences exist. I and many have heard differences in cables.

And really I'm lost to see why this should bother you in the slightest, just accept I do and you don't care if they do or don't exist and find it great to point fingers at others. You truly mousy feel great about yourself having other peoples test to disprove what? They've not been here, they've not heard what I've heard they have a set format to test peoples ability to reliably identy a cable by its unique signature. I'm sure if I bothered reading these reports which no one has supplied a link to there would be some underlining format structure that isn't really trying to support the possibility from the outset this in it's very nature is fundamentally flawed. I'd like the links to what you've studied and agree with, also the bit where this is published as undisputed FACT and then I'll have at least a better understanding of what it us you're subscribed to.

So please help me to better understand this data you've read, examined and have found published as FACT that all,scientist subscribe to this practice NOT theory as any can theorise what they will.

Thanks in advance I'm finally wanting to know where you read these studies, how they are proven to be FACT in every human regardless as to testing them. This report should support that it is proven NO DIFERENCES can be observed and not generalise that people couldn't spot the same cable every time as that's a cop out.

 

[Golden Ears]

We've already said we recognise there are very minor differences between cables. So you can stop harping on with the same tired old mantra that "all cables sound the same" which is what you seem to be accusing us of. Everything else is semantics.

And no, I don't think you hear better than anyone else, or that your hearing is more acute to be able to discern something on a disc or LP that someone else in the same room couldn't hear. Physiological reasons aside (e.g. hearing defect). I do however think you're likely to be more obsessive about the hobby and wires in particular. Not my bag at all for the minimal gains they bring.

i see nothing supporting me making any claims to have superior hearing. But how you can say minor differences are possible that's an acknowledgement that the do exist within cables that's all I've ever said, so where is the opposition coming from?

you others who say they don't are you agreeing with this statement because it's really not been heard by me by the majority. Some have acknowledged they've heard something other said they did but are now wise to the fact they didn't.

my user name is making you make assumptions maybe I'll go back to Dr Death

 

[Native_bon]

I an sure even a five year old would be able to tell a VAN DEN HUL THE FIRST INTERCONNECT IN A BLIND TEST from other cables.

 

[Broner]

These are the first two sentences of your reply to me. To be clear: people don't have to conform to my perceptions. This is not a matter of perceptions but a matter of what has been tested over and over again and you not being willing to accept the meaning of that there have been hundreds of people like you who have come to realize when confronted with a blind test, that all they thought that was true suddenly vaporizes. All blind tests point in that direction. You fail to grasp the significance of this. Secondly, I didn't imply that you implied to have supernatural abilities. I also suggested that you could be ignorant. That also seems a bit more likely to me, but for all I know you might actually think that you are really special.

I'll leave it at that. No need to further engage in this lunacy.

Blind tests this appears to be the ammo and it's totally invalid. I'm not interested in trying to identify someone's trickery to disprove differences exist. I and many have heard differences in cables.

'Blind tests are trickery' according to GE. Nuff said.

 

[JoelSim]

126 new posts since my last one, in a day or two.

Nothing like a cable debate to get the blood flowing huh?

 

[Native_bon]

Am still waiting for someone to challenge me about the VAN DAN HUL CABLE.. Anyone?

 

[Broner]

Am still waiting for someone to challenge me about the VAN DAN HUL CABLE.. Anyone?

Book a ticket to Canada. There is someone waiting there to give you 1 million dollars if you can prove you can hear the difference between that cable and other cables. Someone has already challenged you and it is up to you to accept it and pick up the 1 million dollars. I don't think anyone here is willing to give you a better offer.

Sooo.... The real question is: what are you waiting for? Shouldn't you be making arrangements?

 

[Native_bon]

Have you listened to the cable in question..? Oh really I never heard of that challenged.. Can you piont me to this 1millon dollar challenged.

 

[the record spot]

i see nothing supporting me making any claims to have superior hearing. But how you can say minor differences are possible that's an acknowledgement that the do exist within cables that's all I've ever said, so where is the opposition coming from?

You mentioned, or inferred to that possibility yourself when you questioned that your hearing could detect an instrument - for example - that someone else couldn't. I'm suggesting that all things being equal, and without a physiological impairment between two listeners, that both would hear the same things on a recording. Anything else is down to semantics.

You're also blind. I've always said subtle differences exist, but they are so minor that it's not been worth the hassle. Certainly not for me and having been through all of the different cables I've tried, with all of the different systems I've had, my own experience leans towards the objective crowd and less with the subjective one.

It's interesting that Van den Hul is named in another post, as their "The Name" was heavily touted by this magazine in 2007 as having a major impact on the sound of the system it went in. The fact of the matter was it did zilch. And my word I tried to hear it, but there was no change compared to my Audioquest Turquoise. This was through a Linn Mimik CD player, Mission speakers and a Marantz 6010 KI amp. Pretty revealing gear,

you others who say they don't are you agreeing with this statement because it's really not been heard by me by the majority. Some have acknowledged they've heard something other said they did but are now wise to the fact they didn't.

I don't understand what you are asking here.

my user name is making you make assumptions maybe I'll go back to Dr Death

I wouldn;t go that far, but you should learn to accept that you're just repeating yourself, not adding anything new and this thread is pretty redundant now.

 

[Broner]

Have you listened to the cable in question..? Oh really I never heard of that challenged.. Can you piont me to this 1millon dollar challenged.

Read the bloody forum, google a bit, and book that ticket to Canada.

 

[the record spot]

Have you listened to the cable in question..? Oh really I never heard of that challenged.. Can you piont me to this 1millon dollar challenged.

Check out James Randi's site. It's all there.

 

[Native_bon]

Even if someone should take up the challenge people will say its all a setup... So no matter what you prove people will still not believe the results Mr.

 

[steve_1979]

Even if someone should take up the challenge people will say its all a setup... So no matter what you prove people will still not believe the results Mr.

But I thought that you could easily hear a difference between speaker cables.

I take it that means you don't want a million dollars then?

 

[ID.]

I'm betting it gets to over 200 responses. :rofl: Chris

Over 300 so far.

Nothing like the old formula of those who have heard a difference trying to convince those who know there can't be a difference, or vice versa :cheers:

I'm amazed we haven't come to a conclusion on this yet :roll:

 

[Golden Ears]

Duplicated

 

[Golden Ears]

I've yet to see these undisputed FACTS published and accepted by ALL scientists that "There are no audible differences between ANY type of analogue cable regardless of composition, materials, construction, insulation, capacitance" this is the statement I'm looking for published as there appears to be a misconception here as people clearly think someone is claiming to be able to have some test to see if they can identify several cables in a system they've never heard before and be subjected to what cable a,b,c etc how is this the same as some cables sound different? How does this prove all cables are the same and sound the same? How does this prove that it's in the mind?

All the take the test people have I can only deduce never experienced a difference when exchanging cables, that's completely acceptable who can say they should've? I do ask you all though gave many have bothered to examine the data, the census and know actually if the experiement is a myth buster or a scientific test that has merits within the scientific community that now is written up a factual? They clearly think a test/ experiement conducted on a system that is neither known nor experienced by the listens for a long period of time is a valid vessel to conduct such a test.

Might the testers have visited the homes of those being tested listening to their own setup exchanging cabes they were familar with, I feel would ultimately it would return a preference. How many songs? What material? How many cables? There is a huge list of variables that simply cannot be taken into a simple test to obtain if a listener can find a preference of one cable over another. This test is most relevant for me. The ability to have a preference without price, brand or knowledge of what is playing is key here and not some crazy notion that given x number of cables being changed, sometimes not changed and asking the user to say which they're listening to as clearly I've made my stance here before I rarely here a global improvement with everything as some recordings make hearing differences more difficult than others and the unique signatures offered vary an A/B which do you preferer genuine swap and not listen now (oh we won't change the cable hahahahaha) why not see if between 2 cables someone can be found to have a global preference? Sure sometimes mix the swap etc but is this impossible that someone will enjoy the sound of one over the other?

Finally if the majority here think its impossible for anyone to have a preference of which cable they like how did they come to the conclusion and decide how much to spend?

 

[the record spot]

Life's too short, let it drop mate. Nobody really cares that much. There are better things to obsess over...

 

[Golden Ears]

Life's too short, let it drop mate. Nobody really cares that much. There are better things to obsess over...

Agreed I tried to end this yesterday only to be poked yet again, life's way too short. If thought a little more rationally why should I care if I'm believed or not by any doubter? The most annoying thing is people that have those opinions often haven't really tried to grasp what is being said. They manage to place hearing differences in some cables as making claims of knowing differences between all cables and being able to point out which is playing and not being able to settle for a preference of one cable over another by listening and nothing more.

I'm sure you did indeed go through several cables before you were satisfied with the sound you have. Most people who enjoy audio to a higher degree than a casual listener will experiement and listen to other systems, cables etc and in the end must make their own minds up. Anyone buying cables on recommendation alone are sadly in for some shocks and disappointments as not every cable integrates so well in every system nor does one persons experience guarantee another the same.

Do you consider yourself an Audiophile? (Note this is not a loaded question)

If so do you have a shirt list of material you use when auditioning a system, a cable, a component etc? (I'm interested as sometimes artist pop up I've never heard of and end up liking!)

I was introduced to several good artists the time this question was answered

Cheers and let the music flow!

 

[cheeseboy]

The most annoying thing is people that have those opinions often haven't really tried to grasp what is being said.

wow, pot kettle black etc... :rofl:

so let's get this right... you want people to open their minds, but you are opposed to trying blind testing. You want people to trust their ears, yet you won't fully accept the possibility that the placebo effect and expectation bios can majorly effect how you hear things. You accept there's things we don't understand, but won't accept certain things like pebbles. when people challenge what you believe you think they are being rude and arrogant, but when you do it back, you're just trying to have a conversation???

I don't think any of us need to say anymore, I think you're doing a grand job arguing with yourself there, and quite frankly, I don't think anybody could satisfy you as you aren't really sure yourself what you believe. :rofl:

 

[Golden Ears]

So presumably you'll agree with me that something like this or this may well work, at least in some systems?

If you mean that RFI may affect the components within audio equipment when carried through the mains cable resulting in possible audible artifacts is a possibility, then I can only reply that anything hinting at being interference in its very nature is not good for a signal path. So if this type of interference is possible to pollute the signal path then I'm a believer that any reduction/removal of such interference can possibly be detected if it was present in the signal path enough to of been audible. But surely not just the mains cable can carry these signals so every cable within the system needs to be capable of cancelling or rejecting this type of interference.

No, I meant that the products in the two links may work in at least certain systems. Do you agree?

lol! I wonder where you dug these gems up from No idea but I own a Frurutech RD-2 that I know to work. It is also a little left field but you've won my smile of the day! I'll have to read them properly later but he'll the fact they were links I can thank you for showing another possibly crack pot idea that might just work. Hahaha

Cheers!

Have a look at them. Each product has no more than a few sentences about it and some customer comments. When you've had a look let us know if you think they are 'crackpot' ideas and if so why.

A little research on these claims http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Machina-Dynamica/Falls-Church-Maryland-22042/Machina-Dynamica-False-claims-about-electronic-enhancement-products-Falls-Church-Maryland-286484

 

[Golden Ears]

The most annoying thing is people that have those opinions often haven't really tried to grasp what is being said.

wow, pot kettle black etc... :rofl:

so let's get this right... you want people to open their minds, but you are opposed to trying blind testing. You want people to trust their ears, yet you won't fully accept the possibility that the placebo effect and expectation bios can majorly effect how you hear things. You accept there's things we don't understand, but won't accept certain things like pebbles. when people challenge what you believe you think they are being rude and arrogant, but when you do it back, you're just trying to have a conversation???

I don't think any of us need to say anymore, I think you're doing a grand job arguing with yourself there, and quite frankly, I don't think anybody could satisfy you as you aren't really sure yourself what you believe. :rofl:

Oh poking is fun isn't it? Are you saying that you can answer all the questions I posed earlier? Whips shying away from facts. Do you believe every cable is the same regardless of composition and that the signal is transfer exactly the same regardless of material? Are there no differences in sound between some cables? I've seen many hearing saying there are, also I've demonstrated differences time and time again it's only arrogant to assume someone must be imagining that they've heard differences and can hear differences when the exist of course you know everything they're hearing.

Also have you read this challenge? Did you notice it was excepted that there are differences? The premix us that the wallet listeners claim they know a expensive cable over any cheap cable. Now I know you're not telling I've made that claim are you? So how is this test going to prove I can't hear differences when some cables are introduced into my system?

I do oh do much look forward to this reply

it is scientifically proven that construction, insulation, geometry etc can and foes have an impact on the integrity of and analogue signal. This is undisputed. Period. As to whether every cable has a signature that is audible very very doubtful.

 

[cheeseboy]

Oh poking is fun isn't it? Are you saying that you can answer all the questions I posed earlier? Whips shying away from facts. Do you believe every cable is the same regardless of composition and that the signal is transfer exactly the same regardless of material? Are there no differences in sound between some cables? I've seen many hearing saying there are, also I've demonstrated differences time and time again it's only arrogant to assume someone must be imagining that they've heard differences and can hear differences when the exist of course you know everything they're hearing.

Also have you read this challenge? Did you notice it was excepted that there are differences? The premix us that the wallet listeners claim they know a expensive cable over any cheap cable. Now I know you're not telling I've made that claim are you? So how is this test going to prove I can't hear differences when some cables are introduced into my system?

I do oh do much look forward to this reply

it is scientifically proven that construction, insulation, geometry etc can and foes have an impact on the integrity of and analogue signal. This is undisputed. Period. As to whether every cable has a signature that is audible very very doubtful.

Again, you didn't read what I (and many others have said) - you're running to your own beat on your own inner monologue and hearing what you want to hear and ignoring everything else. As I said, there's no point in trying to reply because you are just listening to what you want to and being totaly oblivious and ignoring everything else, and contradicting yourself in the process, so no form of reply would satisfy you, as I already said. So don't expect any kind of reply that's going to entertain trying to answer your questions, because it's not going to happen, and even if it did, it would be futile for the reasons I have stated.

 

[drummerman]

Im(h)o, EMI/RFI shielding is as or more important than most other factors that make a cable up.

You basically have a bunch of radio aerials lying around.

Use ferrite cores and/or shielded cabling.

regards

 

[Golden Ears]

when people challenge what you believe you

:

It's not a reigion. I know to be true I've heard differences between cables FACT now there a several in this thread agreeing they've heard differences too. It's not some I wonder if there's a god and never see or hear anything but have faith none the less thing. This is an experience pure and simple so I'm not existing to a code. And really why should you care if I've heard anything? Is there something that says you've the right to claim I haven't without ever being present?

i never asked you is it possible, I don't remember asking you evaluate anything, you've chosen to believe it not possible that anyone on the planet has heard a difference between 2 cables ever now who's arrogant?

As for my thinking people are rude then becoming 'Boorish' I do believe is a common word used, I suggest you guys look at how that came about as I began very happy and non defensive this became an exercise in there's another cables freak who thinks very expensive cables mean better sound. That's never been utter from me once and never will