Sorry GE have u listed your kit? Do u try dozens of cables trying to make yr system sound better/correct?
Broner said:
Really? Do people have to conform to your perception or they're wrong? Isn't that arrogant? And your very notion that I've implied in anyway to have supernatural abilities is unfounded at best. There are serval people who've experience sound spdiferences when exchanging cables to another brand or material, design etc. these people aren't challenging others to their not having experienced this.
Simply put as I think it's getting too hard for you to understand this thread is started and about the Red Wave mains cable. Where do you find my claims to be able to identify any cables signature blindly or otherwise. You're putting these words I between the lines as it suits your not having heard anything (which is perfectly fine!) a notion I'm comfortable with. I've had too many non believers here at my house to only walk out wondering how it was possible.
I always begin by saying I think you'll hear something here if not that's fine not everyone does nor possibly can. And have yet to have anyone other than my wife lol claim to have not had a preference for one sound over another. As for if it is repeatable by with every song that's something else. I've certain songs I know to exhibit certain qualities through certain cables and his I can demonstrate to those with open open midpnd time and time and time again.
So kindly find the person making these claims of super hearing, the ability to hear every cable signature and direct the bike at him as I've no idea how you've translated anything here to that.
Golden Ears said:
Well good on ya mate, the way this thread is going all your paterinty leave will be occupied posting on this never ending squabble.
I can feel another song coming on later , just to break things up a bit.
RobinKidderminster said:
If only this was meant to be an interested question and not a finger pointing excercise. I've made many cables and I have several I've been bpgiven and I've listened to all, not all on this system but all throughout the time I've had them in my possession. And I still experiement even today. It's a hobby, I enjoy testing my self, my system and seeing just how much I can get out of the modest investment I've made. If you've any notion that this is crazy hen i Wonder if you Truls enjoy AUDIO Equipment, I'm sure you've heard things sounding better than you've heard them at home before, perhaps an instrument you never noticed? A voice, a sound something tangible yet you wonder, first thing you do when you get home is play the track, you just need to see if the information is resolved the same! Sure enough it isn't, sometimes it's faint but there, other times try and try you might you just can't hear the one thing that made you take notice. This is what's drivers my passion for test home made cables. If that's crazy then commit me now.
floyd droid said:
I think it's Xbox time personally! BF3 and soon BF4! I've order fiber internet and can't wait! I'm wondering how many have been burned by these joyous folk in the past
it feels like someone telling a colour blind person how they should see in colour! Who has that right?
laters!
pauln said:
and who's to say it didn't sound Great? Perception and I do get the joke appeared to be on the wallet listeners however we do not know if they were quoted a price for the wonderful garden mains cable in question!
Surely this does nothing but show how some cables cheap or not can sound good! I've no belief in high cost is better performance on the contrary I hate over priced over rated cables and think they're ruining the industry. I can see why people are in disbelief I really can but it doesn't change the fact I do hear subtle difference from some cables and occasionally very large differences.
Claims if made should be banned, there's no way of guaranteeing anyone that a cable will perform in their setup or room as it has been observed in theirs. I always say try it and see for yourself you like it that's great no difference that's fine such is life! Not everything is explainable by science or otherwise that is indeed the truest fact here
Enjoy your music if indeed that's why you look to the forum!
BenLaw
Well-known member
Golden Ears said:
You keep saying this but of your five paragraph OP a mere two sentences were devoted to a specific product query. The rest was guff, clearly intended to be provocative, about cables costing thousands of pounds being better than stock cables, expensive cables having 'varying sound characteristics' and how you've convinced a 'professional sound engineer' that you were right. Therefore as well being boorish and a hypocrite you are also dishonest.
Golden Ears said:
Hi GE. It wasnt a finger point but I understand your reply. When I wrote the question I was trying to understand the 'level' of kit u are using. This thread is maybe unsuitable but some would have been interested to see some of your diy cables. One of your comments did suggest to me that you seemed to be trying different cables in order to find a particular 'sound'. I also reiterate my doubt that IF cables can impart a particular sound then it should be a 'global' change. We all agree that the best cable is one which makes no change to sound but if a cable does so then the change characteristics should be 'heard' with any source/material and should be scientifically measureable. Our brains will cwrtainly interpret sound in diffwrent ways but suggesting that an ear is more sensitive than acientific instruments is as silly as saying a camera can capture less information than the human eye. A beutiful view and a photo of same is interpreted differently by the brain but the photo will record far more information. In the same way.the ear is far less able to interpret.sound than measuring equipment. The brain ofcourse is able to interpret sound in emotional.context beyond the means of any machine.
Thats enough for now zzzzzzz
BenLaw said:
Oh happy days. I've not once implied using lots of money results in better sound FACT, I didn't start banding anything around that suggested that I've the ability to identify every cables unique signature FACT, so I ask you too find these exact quotes you're refereeing too where I state that the use of stupid amounts of money will result in better sound! Please oh please do find that now I see boorish is definitely an adjective we can share together at least I don't put words into your mouth nor do I suggest that the. Option you've never heard a difference is incorrect to,you.
Enjoy Ben trying to dig up this evidence you've clearly and willingly dreamt up. Perhaps you've mixed up another thread where some muppet is saying spend thousands and tilt be better than anything cheaper this I've never and never will subscribe to. People putting words into my mouth does provoke the boorish monster.
RobinKidderminster said:
I'm sure on some level the sound must be different globally but can I hear it? Nope, do I hear the difference when using my chosen material 100% do I experience sometimes differing effects yes. Can sometime it be a mind trick or could it be something different in the room, the speakers moved a little, who knows on occasions thing sound different even without changeling cables. Try to see if it's there again and it's not. These things are traits of living with a system in a real world environment. I'd happily show some of my DIY the picture I'm using is made of 2 speaker cables I've assembled from differencing materials.
As for cameras and mega pixels and so forth I have no idea how a scientist could know the resolution a real ip eye can pick up as eyes are very unique. It's not a debate I'm feeling like broaching nor is this the forum too do so. The interrupting sound being lesser the pan measuring equipment I'd say is a dodgy quote as yes test equipment can test frequencies, loss, capacitance and a whole host of other critical data but it can (as far as I've heard) never know how the human is receiving the audio being transmitted. I
cheers again
Um said:
welcome to Trolls corner, I guess you feel like you've something useful to add up other than piggy backing on the false accusations I'd suggest you find a thread where there is merit in calling someone a troll. The quote you've so lovingly supported has 0 facts and is 100% false however I'm sure you're one of those who knows thoughts! feels! experiences and have been gifted in having been present whilst I've experienced audible differences so can have a subjected point for the situation. Iit appears a god is amongst us. Why thank you for adding your 2 pennies I'll be sure to spend them on my next cable
chebby
Well-known member
chebby said:
Had to Google this. Funny how it is more than just a childrens character in a rather old tv program. Religious connotations too very strange indeed!
Guess there's a joke hidden in here
:boohoo:I gave you one. Albeit totally unscientific but if you need a precipitation counter to tell it is raining then maybe you need scientific evidence to prove it! :rofl:
A little breather, the following link scientifically answers some of the questions I asked Ben earlier. As no one would answer the loaded questions I tried to see if there is any merit. The link does support that while cables can have differing sound quality that can be perceived by some people it IMO supports a myth that I'm not supportive of and that the pricing of a cable can aid the people to hear this differences ( note I'm not on board hear ).
Sure good quality materials, construction and cables designed to have exacting standards far greater than is list as a minimum bulk standard cables but I see no guarantee of excellence nor that it will be audibly different from another with totally different properties. But all the science folk might take the time to have a read.
http://gizmodo.com/5210904/giz-explains-why-analog-audio-cables-really-arent-all-the-same
And fir the cheap seats I DO NOT believe the wallet will always bring better sound nor spending money like water. I listen with my ears and not my wallet. If I liked what I hear the cost is no deciding factor and I've heard some real poor high end system that had no right to be classed as audio equipment. The price was the highest point and the lowest of enjoyment.
Sure good quality materials, construction and cables designed to have exacting standards far greater than is list as a minimum bulk standard cables but I see no guarantee of excellence nor that it will be audibly different from another with totally different properties. But all the science folk might take the time to have a read.
http://gizmodo.com/5210904/giz-explains-why-analog-audio-cables-really-arent-all-the-same
And fir the cheap seats I DO NOT believe the wallet will always bring better sound nor spending money like water. I listen with my ears and not my wallet. If I liked what I hear the cost is no deciding factor and I've heard some real poor high end system that had no right to be classed as audio equipment. The price was the highest point and the lowest of enjoyment.
Golden Ears said:
It seems then we agree. Its all to do with our brains. It depends on 'how the human is receiving the audio'. Nothing to do with cables. And sometimes its mind tricks.. I think you have summarised expectation bias/placaebo quite well. Thats not a critism. Far from it. Its wonderful how our brains can enhance our pleasure emotionally. Our brains fool us daily. Altering our perception of colour & sound, smell and touch.
BenLaw
Well-known member
The OP:
Golden Ears said:It's such a hugely discussed topic. Can cables make your system sound better? I feel the answer is NO but the can make it worse! This is the paradox, many people claim that cables are all the same, there are so many parameters as to what defines their audio experience. I have over the last 25 years experienced cables costing thousands of £'s and cables that have been thrown in the box with the item. The supplied cables always sucked. The expensive cables had varying sound characteristics. The latest experience I've had is with 2 type of cables mains and Speaker.
the mains cables have been so grey to term an expression I've personally noticed sound differences when replacing mains cables. I've had the discussion with professional sound engineers who have said its impossible and would never believe otherwise. Last week one of he engineers opened his system up to me. He has a modest Rotel amp, a project record played and a CD player (Sony) his system cables were audioquest and the speaker cables QED. The first thing he challenged was that a speaker cable can heave any effect. We listen to The hunter LP the sound of his system IMO was very poor.
We replaced the speaker cable with a military spec wire that I terminated with decent lockable plugs (Rhodium platd) the wire was silver plated rated at 6AWG. He sound instantly became more listenable. He acknowledged but couldn't understand how they had changed the sound. Next the mains cable. This being his biggest objection. The cable I chose was a DH labs mains cable terminated with Rhodium plugs.
Within 20 seconds he'd acknowledged the sound had been transformed. He insisted on is changing back to his standard cable. A smile came and he said the treble was much more realistic with the other cable. We replaced it again with the DH labs I had terminated needless to say I left his house without either cable!
anyone else experienced the DH Labs mains cables? I'm interested in hearing if you've tried the Red Wave and what if any performance traits you experienced. As for the theory of cables changing sound ink of it as poor quality can deteriorate the signal and better keep it more in tact aiding the transmission of the signal. No cable can fix a bad sourc! They can only aid the transmission in keeping the signal unpolluted
RobinKidderminster said:
I do have cables though that can repeatedly display differing audible chacteristcs every time. These are in my system used to demonstrate the differences in speaker cables. As I've bi wired the swap is very is at the speaker end. I've also a decent mains cable that I can exchange with the DH Labs I love so much. I usually start with this in my system when demoing. People often start by being very impressed with the sound quality for such a modest outlay I'm happy to hear this. Then I swap first the mains. The person usually (not my wife for lack of interest) hears and in fact remarks on this change with disbelief. I often get told to play music of their choice and can end up unplugging the darn cable several times for them to see if it was in their mind. We often settle for the DH Labs as the chosen preference of all but one I've had visit, he liked the the cable as it didn't reveal distracting things within the mix (his words) the speaker cable changing Aldo results in similar swapping as people can't believe until they're experienced it.
I've parted with serveral cables over the years by doing this hobbiest demoing. The hardest people to accept a perceived improvement are those doing this in home on their High End expensive gear. I've had grumpy people unable to tell my cable from theirs as the test data many of you refer to. These people make me smile as they've clearly parted with way too much money. On the rare occasion they hear an improvement I have actually sold items. These people are a rarity sadly as many can't believe a cheaper home made item can perform as good as their crazy priced item.
So where I can accept on occasion the brain can play tricks I know for a fact there Re repeatable times it doesn't. I often change round the speaker cables to satisfy my curiosity was I imagining it or not, with the current line up its as real as real can be.
BenLaw said:The OP:Golden Ears said:It's such a hugely discussed topic. Can cables make your system sound better? I feel the answer is NO but the can make it worse! This is the paradox, many people claim that cables are all the same, there are so many parameters as to what defines their audio experience. I have over the last 25 years experienced cables costing thousands of £'s and cables that have been thrown in the box with the item. The supplied cables always sucked. The expensive cables had varying sound characteristics. The latest experience I've had is with 2 type of cables mains and Speaker.
the mains cables have been so grey to term an expression I've personally noticed sound differences when replacing mains cables. I've had the discussion with professional sound engineers who have said its impossible and would never believe otherwise. Last week one of he engineers opened his system up to me. He has a modest Rotel amp, a project record played and a CD player (Sony) his system cables were audioquest and the speaker cables QED. The first thing he challenged was that a speaker cable can heave any effect. We listen to The hunter LP the sound of his system IMO was very poor.
We replaced the speaker cable with a military spec wire that I terminated with decent lockable plugs (Rhodium platd) the wire was silver plated rated at 6AWG. He sound instantly became more listenable. He acknowledged but couldn't understand how they had changed the sound. Next the mains cable. This being his biggest objection. The cable I chose was a DH labs mains cable terminated with Rhodium plugs.
Within 20 seconds he'd acknowledged the sound had been transformed. He insisted on is changing back to his standard cable. A smile came and he said the treble was much more realistic with the other cable. We replaced it again with the DH labs I had terminated needless to say I left his house without either cable!
anyone else experienced the DH Labs mains cables? I'm interested in hearing if you've tried the Red Wave and what if any performance traits you experienced. As for the theory of cables changing sound ink of it as poor quality can deteriorate the signal and better keep it more in tact aiding the transmission of the signal. No cable can fix a bad sourc! They can only aid the transmission in keeping the signal unpolluted
Some nice typo's but none the less how the thread started. Not sure if this was aimed at new comers or some sort of reference however nothing here I haven't said many thpimes after.
Seems you do lots of demos to convince people. Your gizmodo link is fine tho 4yrs old and making no conclusions until listening tests (promised soon) were needed to check if these simple physics/electrical properties are audible. Mains cables ofcourse are different beasts.
Hopefully my need to continue this (now) pointless thread will subside. Strangely emotive sometimes
:cheers:
Hopefully my need to continue this (now) pointless thread will subside. Strangely emotive sometimes
:cheers:
RobinKidderminster said:
i enjoy music and demonstrating any findings when experimenting. I do often have friends, friends of friends and colleagues round many non believers and some have no opinion only care if the system sounds good or not
I too hope the thread has come to the end, no one has obviously experienced The Red Wave mains cable I've enquirer after. I'll search around a bit.
Take care and no doubt I'll find something else to discuss that members won't consider voodoo or mythical as I'm sure these people might have some useful info for me!
Perhaps DAC's as last time I stirred up a hornets nest by calling the DAC Magic a poor mans DAC! It really wasn't as described nor did it perform as good as the much cheaper DAC I had at that time on any of my systems. It's 2 years old and been sat in the box unused after the initial trials. I should probably sell it to someone who believes reviews and keels beliving after purchased! I've changed DAC's so maybe I can find the info on the new Arcam IrDac as the reviews are one thing peoples experience another!
Ok peeps, I do assure you this thread was never meant to generate anything other than the product in questions feedback. I did give my stance in the intro which is what appears to of generated so many questioning posts. Next time I'll just ask if someone's bought an x before and then ask for input if replied as this is too time consuming after the posts start to roll in! I've tried to reply to most as I'm a little shocked so many have such strong negativity towards any notion the pat another can hear differences in some cables.
Ha da!
Broner
Well-known member
Golden Ears said:
These are the first two sentences of your reply to me. To be clear: people don't have to conform to my perceptions. This is not a matter of perceptions but a matter of what has been tested over and over again and you not being willing to accept the meaning of that there have been hundreds of people like you who have come to realize when confronted with a blind test, that all they thought that was true suddenly vaporizes. All blind tests point in that direction. You fail to grasp the significance of this. Secondly, I didn't imply that you implied to have supernatural abilities. I also suggested that you could be ignorant. That also seems a bit more likely to me, but for all I know you might actually think that you are really special.
I'll leave it at that. No need to further engage in this lunacy.
Native_bon
Well-known member
I would say one cable that I used many years ago & the difference was night & day.. Anyone who used it would know as well.. VAN DEN HUL THE FIRST. People who say no difference in sound & listened to this cable & cnt hear the difference must be almost deaf.
I dnt know why anyone has not mentioned this cable.
I dnt know why anyone has not mentioned this cable.
Similar threads
TRENDING THREADS
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
I test OLED TVs for a living – and trust me, different sizes perform differently- Started by What Hi-Fi?
- Replies: 3
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram