Cables, mains, interconnectors and speaker cables

[Golden Ears]

You claimed to take offence several takes when others made comments towards you which they said were jokes. Merely pointing out that you are a hypocrite, both in the way you conduct yourself and in your views on products which have no grounding in science.

can you find the quotes contains we are / were joking as I clearly missed them here ken all this mess. If found to be as you say I'll review my statement

Well you replied to at least one of them so I don't know how you 'missed' them. You've been all over this thread so that suggestion sounds like rubbish. Anyway, page 7 post 2 and page 13 post 7 as examples. As I say, you're a boorish hypocrite.

i see nothing offensive said here nor taken that way. I only refered to school boy snipes. That's hardly offensive and wife cliche refered to it as a joke to dismiss the facts supplied. I felt the disbelief to be the point but heck life's too short. No one saying dude we're pulling your leg you've a right to your experiences etc. To be honest it's hardly a sleepless issue for me as I know what to be true to me the Thread began as a quest to get feedback and spiralled into this. I've asked for some of the facts to be confirmed to me so I can better understand the science that you are referring to.

take it easy matey! Life's tool short to take too much time on trying to convince someone they did or didn't hear something especially as you were never there

 

[Golden Ears]

English isn't your first language, so I'll simply point out that hypocrite doesn't mean changing your mind and boorish isn't the same as boring.

I don't know what you're on about with your questions. You said science was irrelevant. I was making the simple point that if subjective experience is all that matters the products you consider 'crackpot' are no more or less valid than the cables you've been banging on about, unless YOU want to show us some scientific basis or objective test results.

I believe you to use science a fact when quoting tests etc, if it's not you sorry. If it is you then by all means reply. As for me having the choice to buy a product that is personal and the opinions I have of outlandish claims the same. I do not subscribe to the myths nor claims of improving your system. I do read others experiences and options and if I think that a product has enough merit and support and I'm feeling interest then I might purchase. How is this requiring any data to show you? What makes you think I've made any claim I need to backup? I've heard differences, does it npmean you will? Does it mean you won't? Does it mean I'm crazy? Does it mean that the subject is ..... Moot I believe someone told me is the correct word thanks again whoever you were!

Surely my experience is personal and needs no evidence? There have been several claiming similar I never said everyone cares nor can or cannot spot differences so really what is your point and how does my personal experiences suddenly become an international concern that needs to be documented?

 

[Golden Ears]

You missed one GE

8. Is it true I can't find any evidence anywhere that anyone has ever been able to tell two cables apart blind despite lots of people trying?

And I've been banging this drum? My stance is I've heard differences, I find preferences when they occurr and that's it. The hot swap testing to satisfy another is their problem maybe you'd like to answer the real question and not the tested fools making outlandish claims. Anyone claiming ALL cables perform differently is clearly wrong, I've never met anyone claiming this nor have I met anyone claiming bring me any cables of your choice and I'll know which plays on every song on any system. If you think I'm on the that boat you're sorely mistaken.

I know now my system and the bi wired cables in use and the signature they have and I have 2 mains cables I feel pretty confident I could identify when play certain tracks on my system. If this is outlandish and a claim too far so be it.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Is a speaker cable described as'smooth & refined but needing a touch of verve' really worth £8pm or should I look for 'a massivelydetailed cable which reveals subtlties with refinement' at£50pm?

Anyone ?? Ignoring the tongue in cheek reference here can any 'believer' recognise these attributes of cables assigned by whf in their reviews?

 

[Golden Ears]

Is a speaker cable described as'smooth & refined but needing a touch of verve' really worth £8pm or should I look for 'a massivelydetailed cable which reveals subtlties with refinement' at£50pm?

Anyone ?? Ignoring the tongue in cheek reference here can any 'believer' recognise these attributes of cables assigned by whf in their reviews?

You know this one here ignoring toughie in cheek is a funny one. I've heard people claiming "I'm their system" to have experienced performance enhancements using words like these. Even when I've experienced difference I could never say every song had benefited nor can I say that it had a system wide effect. Some times the perception of some of these descriptions had felt very really and on A/B old new they were correct with some tracks but never a system wide improvement. This might be mastering was poor on those unaffected I cannot say.

PS I'd never accept any statement like this to be factual as very system performs differently so these comments might be how WHF have experienced with their setup you'd have to get a try and buy to see if there was anything for you as here type of statements should have some warning to the public!

 

[Craig M.]

You missed one GE

8. Is it true I can't find any evidence anywhere that anyone has ever been able to tell two cables apart blind despite lots of people trying?

And I've been banging this drum?

You missed my point but nevermind.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Is a speaker cable described as'smooth & refined but needing a touch of verve' really worth £8pm or should I look for 'a massivelydetailed cable which reveals subtlties with refinement' at£50pm?

Anyone ?? Ignoring the tongue in cheek reference here can any 'believer' recognise these attributes of cables assigned by whf in their reviews?

You know this one here ignoring toughie in cheek is a funny one. I've heard people claiming "I'm their system" to have experienced performance enhancements using words like these. Even when I've experienced difference I could never say every song had benefited nor can I say that it had a system wide effect. Some times the perception of some of these descriptions had felt very really and on A/B old new they were correct with some tracks but never a system wide improvement. This might be mastering was poor on those unaffected I cannot say.

PS I'd never accept any statement like this to be factual as very system performs differently so these comments might be how WHF have experienced with their setup you'd have to get a try and buy to see if there was anything for you as here type of statements should have some warning to the public!

A worrying comment on several levels. Firstly if cables did make a difference would we not expect to hear that difference universally? Surely a cable cant change (say) the treble on one cd but not another?

Furthermore, in dismissing the differences.experienced and reported by 'professionals' how easy is it for us to have confidence in others reported perceptions.

Your comment, if taken at face value, would encourage us to loose faith in all personal subjective reviews and then we would only be left with science.

 

[Golden Ears]

Is a speaker cable described as'smooth & refined but needing a touch of verve' really worth £8pm or should I look for 'a massivelydetailed cable which reveals subtlties with refinement' at£50pm?

Anyone ?? Ignoring the tongue in cheek reference here can any 'believer' recognise these attributes of cables assigned by whf in their reviews?

You know this one here ignoring toughie in cheek is a funny one. I've heard people claiming "I'm their system" to have experienced performance enhancements using words like these. Even when I've experienced difference I could never say every song had benefited nor can I say that it had a system wide effect. Some times the perception of some of these descriptions had felt very really and on A/B old new they were correct with some tracks but never a system wide improvement. This might be mastering was poor on those unaffected I cannot say.

PS I'd never accept any statement like this to be factual as very system performs differently so these comments might be how WHF have experienced with their setup you'd have to get a try and buy to see if there was anything for you as here type of statements should have some warning to the public!

A worrying comment on several levels. Firstly if cables did make a difference would we not expect to hear that difference universally? Surely a cable cant change (say) the treble on one cd but not another?

Furthermore, in dismissing the differences.experienced and reported by 'professionals' how easy is it for us to have confidence in others reported perceptions.

Your comment, if taken at face value, would encourage us to loose faith in all personal subjective reviews and then we would only be left with science.

Really? Let's look at this....

The differences made can clearly be identified with the correct material and this is my point. Material known intimately to have tell tale traits are used for cable testing and I guarantee that the expertperts you are referring to do have a short list and if they're watching this thread will confirm the differences they experience are easier spotted with well mastered material and they have a few songs known for have characteristics they have heard on a reference or a system they consider to deliver the best reproduction. They will also confirm that some cables affect certain perceived values that are more evident in certain material and those tracks not demonstrating these traits will not have any definable improvement lets alone noticeable. There comes along every so often a special cable which can deliver or appear to deliver a global improvement however these rare beasts cannot be claimed to have he same effect on every system.

And I welcome an experts comment here as audiophiles round the world not just in Norway will have a short list of material, they will have intimate knowledge and tell tale signatures within the material been used to assess the system. In addition the notion that every system will benefit the same from a given cable I have never heard an expert quote before. I'd love to see this beast in use had it been claimed!

The testing of cables, mains filtration devices etc reviewers need familiarity and rely on material they have noticed difference been many systems to aid their opinions.

So I stand by my comments and see no reason to doubt experiences had as I have my own material I know and have heard on ridiculously priced systems sounding amazing and the opposite. I enjoy listening to others systems and listening for my own tell tale traits within the music to see what signature(s) are present within the system in question

 

[fr0g]

So I stand by my comments and see no reason to doubt experiences had as I have my own material I know and have heard on ridiculously priced systems sounding amazing and the opposite. I enjoy listening to others systems and listening for my own tell tale traits within the music to see what signature(s) are present within the system in question

If you rub olive oil on your plug sockets it makes the treble response silkier. I have tried it and it works

Now take the above comment. Do you believe me? What would it take to convince you?

 

[Golden Ears]

Is a speaker cable described as'smooth & refined but needing a touch of verve' really worth £8pm or should I look for 'a massivelydetailed cable which reveals subtlties with refinement' at£50pm?

Anyone ?? Ignoring the tongue in cheek reference here can any 'believer' recognise these attributes of cables assigned by whf in their reviews?

You know this one here ignoring toughie in cheek is a funny one. I've heard people claiming "I'm their system" to have experienced performance enhancements using words like these. Even when I've experienced difference I could never say every song had benefited nor can I say that it had a system wide effect. Some times the perception of some of these descriptions had felt very really and on A/B old new they were correct with some tracks but never a system wide improvement. This might be mastering was poor on those unaffected I cannot say.

PS I'd never accept any statement like this to be factual as very system performs differently so these comments might be how WHF have experienced with their setup you'd have to get a try and buy to see if there was anything for you as here type of statements should have some warning to the public!

"we would only be left with science."

Robin I asked Ben a series of scientific questions. You have science you say to rely on perhaps you'd be kind enough to assist me with the 7 questions I've asked as I can only assume these question are true and that is something you'll no doubt have links and data, tests and a list of individuals,that have taken part in the brain decoding and experienced perception of sound etc! Oh now am getting excited! A man who has science to rely on! I might just need to seek medical attention after you've provided this to me as it all must of been thought of and documented for you to have a firm belief in the data!

You're the best! I need not worry I'm sure I'll know soon it was all in my mind and the scientists are ready to prove it to me

 

[Golden Ears]

So I stand by my comments and see no reason to doubt experiences had as I have my own material I know and have heard on ridiculously priced systems sounding amazing and the opposite. I enjoy listening to others systems and listening for my own tell tale traits within the music to see what signature(s) are present within the system in question

If you rub olive oil on your plug sockets it makes the treble response silkier. I have tried it and it works

Now take the above comment. Do you believe me? What would it take to convince you?

If you've enjoyed this that's great! However at this time I'm happy with the treble I'm experiencing.

 

[Golden Ears]

I looked up boorish Ben and I must admit some of the definition has become true over these posts. Sadly it has, I'm not proud to admit it but you have a point. I'm sure you've a good adjective for some of your replies that may describe how you've become I've none to offer. I'll try to be a little boorish as this isn't my personality only a defense mechanism brought on by people I staining they're my clone and have scientific studies to support the impossibility that I, some ofthers hear and around the world & the professionals in the audio industry alike cannot hear differences in some cables.

i do await some civil and well present facts backing the questions placed earlier from whomever can help clear those up.

thanks and sorry for being boorish I'll do my best to pause before reply

 

[fr0g]

So I stand by my comments and see no reason to doubt experiences had as I have my own material I know and have heard on ridiculously priced systems sounding amazing and the opposite. I enjoy listening to others systems and listening for my own tell tale traits within the music to see what signature(s) are present within the system in question

If you rub olive oil on your plug sockets it makes the treble response silkier. I have tried it and it works

Now take the above comment. Do you believe me? What would it take to convince you?

If you've enjoyed this that's great! However at this time I'm happy with the treble I'm experiencing.

doh.

The point being it is a ridiculous claim. And plainly untrue. And not worthy of being listened to without real evidence. Had I been tested double blind and identified the olive oil smeared socket over and over, then that would be evidence.

So, while you may "believe" you hear differences, I don't, or rather I believe you "think" you heard differences, and I believe they are purely imagined.

And I am guessing that quite a number of other people in this thread believe the same.

Now, if you had documented a full double blind test, then we might want to hear more. As it is, it's your expectation bias tales of differences versus my/our belief that it's all in your head...

 

[Golden Ears]

So I stand by my comments and see no reason to doubt experiences had as I have my own material I know and have heard on ridiculously priced systems sounding amazing and the opposite. I enjoy listening to others systems and listening for my own tell tale traits within the music to see what signature(s) are present within the system in question

If you rub olive oil on your plug sockets it makes the treble response silkier. I have tried it and it works

Now take the above comment. Do you believe me? What would it take to convince you?

If you've enjoyed this that's great! However at this time I'm happy with the treble I'm experiencing.

doh.

The point being it is a ridiculous claim. And plainly untrue. And not worthy of being listened to without real evidence. Had I been tested double blind and identified the olive oil smeared socket over and over, then that would be evidence.

So, while you may "believe" you hear differences, I don't, or rather I believe you "think" you heard differences, and I believe they are purely imagined.

And I am guessing that quite a number of other people in this thread believe the same.

Now, if you had documented a full double blind test, then we might want to hear more. As it is, it's your expectation bias tales of differences versus my/our belief that it's all in your head...

Again the drums are a banging. It's here's an acknowledgement for what you believe but I must be right you didn't experience it. I'm happy with my experiences and perceptions of what it have and have not heard.

 

[fr0g]

Again the drums are a banging. It's here's an acknowledgement for what you believe but I must be right you didn't experience it. I'm happy with my experiences and perceptions of what it have and have not heard.

And again, you miss the point.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".

You are more than welcome to believe what you wish. But in this case, I think you are imagining things, and your assertion that you "heard" differences counts for precisely nothing.

Some people think they are Napolean. Does that make them Napolean?

 

[Golden Ears]

You missed one GE

8. Is it true I can't find any evidence anywhere that anyone has ever been able to tell two cables apart blind despite lots of people trying?

And I've been banging this drum?

You missed my point but nevermind.

Craig I'm so to say I'm not missing the point as I've never claimed tat to be possible. How is what am saying I've experienced backing this 100% or otherwise? People through this to me every other post like it's the bible of proof, the holy grail that humans hear everything 100% alike and that people hard of hearing are faking it. It's a crazy notion to offer up against my experiences especially as I have never quoted hearing difference in every single cable I've heard. If I had made his statement you could quite justly through this into the debate however it is not implied nor supported. So now were on the same page 1000000000000000% do you still think I'm really needing to answer this, the question I've said I've no experience to backup all along? Or is because you and the others throwing this bone to me think this is the crutch needed to dispel any possibility that I have heard something? By all means ask an expert how he takes the question, you could possibly find someone claiming to support this notion that they've this ability and let them prove these amazing skills (should they exist)

 

[MUSICRAFT]

I've asked for some of the facts to be confirmed to me so I can better understand the science that you are referring to.

Hi Golden Ears

Dude only Smarties have the answer

Anyway i off to listen to A-ha on a system connected with state of the art cables :cheer:

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Golden Ears]

Again the drums are a banging. It's here's an acknowledgement for what you believe but I must be right you didn't experience it. I'm happy with my experiences and perceptions of what it have and have not heard.

And again, you miss the point.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".

You are more than welcome to believe what you wish. But in this case, I think you are imagining things, and your assertion that you "heard" differences counts for precisely nothing.

Some people think they are Napolean. Does that make them Napolean?

when did I say you had to except my experience? Did you feel that my hearing a difference was directed to you? Is it possible I did and you're wrong? Do you really claim to know how well I percieve music and the details within?

And as as for any mockery you can save it for someone deserving I can't think of any claim here that is so far fetched that needs resulting to mockery as you must of been stung in the past by claims hat your system would perform better than ever only to find it made no difference! Happens time and time again to those willing to take review as gospel this is. to my doing nor am I in fact preaching here!

If you'd be kind enough to see why I started this thread and explain to me (as my English is not 100%) how I have challenged you or anyone I'd appreciate it

thanks

 

[Golden Ears]

I've asked for some of the facts to be confirmed to me so I can better understand the science that you are referring to.

Hi Golden Ears

Dude only Smarties have the answer

Anyway i off to listen to A-ha on a system connected with state of the art cables :cheer:

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

Takk få det!

Rock ckeck out Ane Brun she's extremely talented. Her new album a Rarities is a most for any demo

 

[floyd droid]

However at this time I'm happy with the treble I'm experiencing.

And you run MA RS6s.

Oh well each to their own but ' Golden Ears ' , you jest no ?.

 

[Broner]

Craig I'm so to say I'm not missing the point as I've never claimed tat to be possible.

GE misses the point. Again. And that's not going to change even if this little thread reaches 1k responses in two days or so. He doesn't fully understand what it means that hundreds of people such as him who thought they could hear differences, very clearly so, don't when they participate in a blind test. It has been tested, it has been written up, and the whole bunch of evidence taken together points in one direction.

GE somehow remains to think that he could very well be that person that could prove all other tests invalid because he hears something. To think that, you would either have to be very ignorant of the principles of induction, very ignorant of the idea how the mind mediates experiences, or you would need to have a 'god complex'. Either way, it's not something to be very proud of.

 

[Golden Ears]

However at this time I'm happy with the treble I'm experiencing.

And you run MA RS6s.

Oh well each to their own but ' Golden Ears ' , you jest no ?.

you know I've enjoyed my music other speakers more. These are a stop gap as I've too young children. At present I'm enjoying the paid 12 weeks fathers leave with my youngest! I will. To replace these cheap capable speakers for some years as the kids have already marked the cabinets they'll be little resale value, I shifted from stand mount to these purely for practicality and value for money.

They have some good qualities but overall I know where they are weak and strong. They'll never be my recommendation but they can play music to a good if not extraordinary standard.

Hearing is believing as not all speakers perform the same in every system, room or persons ears lol! The guy up who I bought them from aphad a valabe setup, the mids were delicious but the bass was nowhere to be heard. He was disappointed. I took them home and the bass was there but I didn't have those mids! Many cables changes later (I have tried the first again! No joy still!) and I've a balanced enough sound to enjoy for a few years.

 

[MakkaPakka]

If only some people can hear the differences in these cables you have to wonder how they hire people to make the cables and what sort of criteria they apply when deciding how to make them if it's not based on science.

 

[bigboss]

I'm betting it gets to over 200 responses. :rofl: Chris

You win!

 

[BigH]

However at this time I'm happy with the treble I'm experiencing.

And you run MA RS6s.

Oh well each to their own but ' Golden Ears ' , you jest no ?.

I agree think you would be better off upgrading your speakers than messing around with cables etc.