Bi-wiring, Neat and Naim - some thoughts (and questions)

[Singslinger]

Hello everyone

It's been around 20 years since speaker manufacturers started selling the idea that biwiring gives improved sound. Since then, almost all makers have jumped on the biwiring bandwagon. Not all though - some Spendor and Wilson models still only offer single binding posts. Which leads me to wonder - does biwiring really offer the claimed sonic advantages? Or is it simply a marketing gimmick?

Granted, with two binding posts it's possible to bi-amp speakers, so there is an advantage (at added cost). But what if a single amp is used? Is there really better sound?

For example, I've read on this forum the conventional wisdom that Neat speakers were designed with Naim amps and so work well together. Now, as far as I know, Naim does not encourage biwiring. Yet all the Neat speakers I've seen have biwiring inputs. How does this gel with the conventional wisdom? Are we to assume that unless a Neat/Naim owner bi-amps, he or she is not enjoying optimum sound?

My experience with biwiring (with Tannoy D-700s) is that there's no discernible difference and that single-wiring works just as well with the jumper connectors fitted.

I'd appreciate comments and views on this. Thanks very much.

 

[plastic penguin]

Firstly, I don't think Neat speakers were designed for Naim amps. It just happens that the Neat's tonal qualities are very well matched for Naim, Leema, Cyrus...

Bi-wiring is a strange commodity, some people prefer it while other don't. Personally I've only limited experience with bi-wiring, I tried a few months ago when I was tinkering with my old system. I found that bi-wiring changed the sound a little but wasn't better or worse - the biggest difference is when you bi-amp a power amp to an integrated or if you have separate pre/power amps.

If you already have single wiring then stick with it.

Hope it helps.

Cheers, pp.

 

[Richard Allen]

plastic penguin:
Firstly, I don't think Neat speakers were designed for Naim amps. It just happens that the Neat's tonal qualities are very well matched for Naim, Leema, Cyrus...

Bi-wiring is a strange commodity, some people prefer it while other don't. Personally I've only limited experience with bi-wiring, I tried a few months ago when I was tinkering with my old system. I found that bi-wiring changed the sound a little but wasn't better or worse - the biggest difference is when you bi-amp a power amp to an integrated or if you have separate pre/power amps.

If you already have single wiring then stick with it.

Hope it helps.

Cheers, pp.

Exactly right. I don't think Naim go for all this Bi-wiring either. I certainly don't. As PP says, bi-amping, different matter which, in all fairness, is what I put Bi terminals on our products for. For what you spend on a bi cable, you can upgrade to a much superior single cable for the same budget.

 

[Singslinger]

Thanks guys - I agree 100% with what you've said. Yes if you go the bi-amp route there are clear sonic benefits but otherwise the advantages are debatable.

Richard - I read somewhere that the reason the Spendor SA1 comes with single binding posts is precisely what you say, ie the company believes the money is better spent on the best possible cables instead of a cheaper bi-wired set.

 

[Dan Turner]

When I bought my Neat Momentums, it was direct from Neat so I spoke to them whilst I was considering it. My pair were (already) purpose made as a single-wire version, apparently they do make single wire pairs quite regularly as there is a demand for them and having the single set of terminals and avoiding link-plates/jumper cables gives improved quality when single-wiring. In his opinion (Bob I think it was, one of the blokes that run Neat) bi-wiring probably isn't worth it and the main reason they include the twin terminals as standard is to facilitate bi-amping.

My own experience, found repeatedly with different cables is that for the same money a higher quality single run of cable will always outperform twin runs of something inferior.

 

[plastic penguin]

Singslinger:

Thanks guys - I agree 100% with what you've said. Yes if you go the bi-amp route there are clear sonic benefits but otherwise the advantages are debatable.

Richard - I read somewhere that the reason the Spendor SA1 comes with single binding posts is precisely what you say, ie the company believes the money is better spent on the best possible cables instead of a cheaper bi-wired set.

Dynaudio and Focal are other companies that avoid bi-wiring, too.

 

[Naxos]

I must admit that, as I was already bi-wired with my Keilidhs (Chord Carnival), I retained this with my Neat Elites, even though Naim, as you say, don't recommend this. While the Neats sound great (and continue to improve during burn-in), I would almost certainly consider a future change to something like Naim NACA5 in single configuration if I felt it offered a significant upgrade.

 

[Richard Allen]

Singslinger:

Richard - I read somewhere that the reason the Spendor SA1 comes with single binding posts is precisely what you say, ie the company believes the money is better spent on the best possible cables instead of a cheaper bi-wired set.

The main reason why I bi-wire is to satisfy the foreign markets other than the bi-amping issue. They haven't caught up with the fact that bi-wiring for the sake of it is a waste of time. Look at Wilson Audio. Huge terminals. Single wired!!.

 

[chebby]

Richard Allen:The main reason why I bi-wire is to satisfy the foreign markets other than the bi-amping issue. They haven't caught up with the fact that bi-wiring for the sake of it is a waste of time. Look at Wilson Audio. Huge terminals. Single wired!!.

Is that Wilson Benesch (UK company) or Wilson Audio (USA) ?

It's just that pictures of the rear of speakers from both companies show bi-wire/bi-amp terminals...

 

[SteveR750]

Singslinger:
Hello everyone

I. Not all though - some Spendor and Wilson models still only offer single binding posts. Which leads me to wonder - does biwiring really offer the claimed sonic advantages?

For example, I've read on this forum the conventional wisdom that Neat speakers were designed with Naim amps and so work well together.

The previous generation Spendors which I have are bi-wireable. Clearly, they too think its not worth doing.

IIRC the EB2 was designed using a Roksan Caspian (correct me if I'm wrong Richard) but that doesn't necessarily mean it is the best combination....

 

[Richard Allen]

SteveR750:Singslinger:
Hello everyone

I. Not all though - some Spendor and Wilson models still only offer single binding posts. Which leads me to wonder - does biwiring really offer the claimed sonic advantages?

For example, I've read on this forum the conventional wisdom that Neat speakers were designed with Naim amps and so work well together.

The previous generation Spendors which I have are bi-wireable. Clearly, they too think its not worth doing.

IIRC the EB2 was designed using a Roksan Caspian (correct me if I'm wrong Richard) but that doesn't necessarily mean it is the best combination....

Caspian is my reference amp but that doesn't mean it's the only amp it works with. Naim and Creek work well also, to my knowledge. Used Naim, been told about the Creek.

 

[John Duncan]

Read this, from a speaker manufacturer of note...

http://community.whathifi.com/forums/p/230892/230892.aspx#230892

 

[Richard Allen]

JohnDuncan:Read this, from a speaker manufacturer of note...

http://community.whathifi.com/forums/p/230892/230892.aspx#230892

I rest my case. James has summed it to a tee. Bi-amping does work. No question. Bi-wiring, waste of money, no question!!

 

[SteveR750]

Phew!

EDIT: so who was responsible for starting the myth in the first place? A speaker manufacturer must have been involve in the conspiracy at the outset for it to have worked.

 

[Richard Allen]

SteveR750:Phew!

Phew??. What's that then?

 

[SteveR750]

Richard Allen:
SteveR750:Phew!

Phew??. What's that then?

I never believed and maybe therefore never heard any benefit in bi-wiring. Im glad I only tried it with some cheaper QED cable some while ago and didnt convince me it was the way to go. I confess to using cable jumpers though, which I am not really convinced about....

 

[Richard Allen]

SteveR750:
Phew!

EDIT: so who was responsible for starting the myth in the first place? A speaker manufacturer must have been involve in the conspiracy at the outset for it to have worked.

Bi-wiring, if I'm informed correctly, was contrived by Hitachi. When they thought about chasing the copyright or patent, they were advised against this. I don't know how true this is and if someone knows better PLEASE educate me. Bi-amping does work. There's no doubt about that. But Bi-wiring?. Not so sure on this.