Question Reality check: Bi-Amping

[AJM1981]

Below is a google translate action on a Dutch website on bi-amping. I would like to do a little reality check on their dynamics claim.

The advantage of bi- or tri-amping is clear: more power and a separation of signals for high, mid and low. This is different from active filtering! There is still a filter in the speaker that has to pull apart the music signal. So each cable still carries a complete music signal. However: the feedback from the speaker to the amplifier is handled separately for each amplifier. And of course there is more power available.

Bi-amping clearly has more advantages than just bi-wiring. And in almost all cases it is better than single-amping: more dynamics, more space… more control. However: it is also many times more expensive than bi-wiring.

Ok. having 2 amps and removing the bridges between the binding posts on the speakers gives an opening to a bi-amping option.

In the past one could bi-amp two light amps to do the trick as a kind of workaround to getting a decent power amp. But almost all modern amps perform well without shortcomings in both power and controlling bass or treble. Making the need to Bi-Amp to somewhere near zero.

That this all would give any advantage in dynamics might sound like a deal in the 1970s but does not sound that convincing these days.

Purely for testing purposes I could do some bi amping here. Already use two amps apart from each other, but getting one source input split to two amps is in a layers of 'why would anyone do that? ' probably the most sketchy.

 

[nopiano]

Personally I think weight is a non-issue as far as amps are concerned. Except that heavier are usually better!

I’d spend any spare ‘Hifi fund’ cash elsewhere. In fact anywhere!

 

[AJM1981]

Personally I think weight is a non-issue as far as amps are concerned. Except that heavier are usually better!

I’d spend any spare ‘Hifi fund’ cash elsewhere. In fact anywhere!

Given the whole bi-amp thing I picture the 60s or 70s with someone having a party in a high school room and dragging two lightweight amps into the game instead of one expensive and heavyweight Quad or McIntosh.

Besides the amount of wires dangling around. I can't really understand why turning the volume dial and producing more bass or treble and manually searching for balance would be an advantage in control and dynamics as the quote in the opening suggests. It almost sounds like an illusion in having control.

 

[nopiano]

Given the whole bi-amp thing I picture the 60s or 70s with someone having a party in a high school room and dragging two lightweight amps into the game instead of one expensive and heavyweight Quad or McIntosh.

Besides the amount of wires dangling around. I can't really understand why turning the volume dial and producing more bass or treble and manually searching for balance would be an advantage in control and dynamics as the quote in the opening suggests. It almost sounds like an illusion in having control.

It wouldn’t! Properly implemented, the gain from both amps will match, so the volume control in the preamp will work exactly the same as normal. The signal is still going though the crossover as before. Except one amp is connected only to the woofers and the other to the tweeters (though there is vertical and horizontal bi-amping which let us forget here).

Linn, Naim, Exposure and others did offer external crossovers, and other complexities. But I think we both agree bi-amping isn’t worth serious consideration. Now, proper active speakers, like ATCs, are another matter!

 

[AJM1981]

It wouldn’t! Properly implemented, the gain from both amps will match, so the volume control in the preamp will work exactly the same as normal. The signal is still going though the crossover as before. Except one amp is connected only to the woofers and the other to the tweeters (though there is vertical and horizontal bi-amping which let us forget here).

Linn, Naim, Exposure and others did offer external crossovers, and other complexities. But I think we both agree bi-amping isn’t worth serious consideration. Now, proper active speakers, like ATCs, are another matter!

So, source to one pre-amp, pre-amp to 2 (power) amps or by applying some chaining and those to the speaker terminals.

With these solutions the outcome is somewhere between magic, everything is the same and things are worse. And most of the times everything is perceived the same, just with a room full of cable spaghetti. And thinking "stupid outdated article"

indeed, active speakers are a new step forward. Too late, given the active monitors that already exist for long, but still on time.

 

[Vincent Kars]

Dutch website on bi-amping

Looks like this is written by somebody without much understanding. Probably Alpha Audio.

If you do have 2 power amps, just try. Most of all try vertical bi-amping instead of horizontal as the woofers are the power hungry ones.
Doubt if it will do much unless you play very, very loud.

 

[12th Monkey]

I biamped with the previous Arcams (2x P35) and there was an improvement in their ability to control the sound, particularly in the bass, and apparent at less than stratospheric volume levels. These were not feeble amps from the dim and distant past.

No idea whether I'd try it again - the MF power amp is so overendowed in the power stakes and my speakers are single-wired, so not an option at present even if I wanted to.

Agree with VK that the quote from the article looks like it demonstrates some woolly thinking.

I always think it's pretty pointless pontificating about these things - if you are genuinely bothered/interested, just try it for yourself.

 

[Symples]

I have an Onkyo TX RZ800 AV receiver.
It has 7.2 channels, but I run it in 5.0 mode
Why....?

Well with a room of 5x4m ... 7 channels is an overkill (I've tried it)
But the best part (here comes the link) is that the front channels can be bi-amped.
So two sets of speaker cables to the front speakers and the difference?

Louder and more control. Effortlessly plays my Tannoys. I love it
Would I go back to single amping? (Probably, but only if I had powerful amplifier)

 

[Al ears]

It wouldn’t! Properly implemented, the gain from both amps will match, so the volume control in the preamp will work exactly the same as normal. The signal is still going though the crossover as before. Except one amp is connected only to the woofers and the other to the tweeters (though there is vertical and horizontal bi-amping which let us forget here).

Linn, Naim, Exposure and others did offer external crossovers, and other complexities. But I think we both agree bi-amping isn’t worth serious consideration. Now, proper active speakers, like ATCs, are another matter!

Aren't active speakers horizontally biamped? It's just the amp is internal.

 

[Al ears]

I biamped with the previous Arcams (2x P35) and there was an improvement in their ability to control the sound, particularly in the bass, and apparent at less than stratospheric volume levels. These were not feeble amps from the dim and distant past.

No idea whether I'd try it again - the MF power amp is so overendowed in the power stakes and my speakers are single-wired, so not an option at present even if I wanted to.

Agree with VK that the quote from the article looks like it demonstrates some woolly thinking.

I always think it's pretty pointless pontificating about these things - if you are genuinely bothered/interested, just try it for yourself.

agreed, there is a reason monoblock power amps are still manufactured

 

[Vincent Kars]

Aren't active speakers horizontally biamped?

No. There is no connection with any other box.
Actives do have an amp per driver. Basically mono.

 

[nopiano]

Aren't active speakers horizontally biamped? It's just the amp is internal.

Vincent has beaten me to it. At least in the ATCs and KEFs with which I’m most familiar, it’s one amp per driver. I think KEF may even run class D in the bass and A/B in the treble.

 

[Al ears]

Vincent has beaten me to it. At least in the ATCs and KEFs with which I’m most familiar, it’s one amp per driver. I think KEF may even run class D in the bass and A/B in the treble.

exactly. Instead of amps outside the box they are inside.

 

[Al ears]

No. There is no connection with any other box.
Actives do have an amp per driver. Basically mono.

So they are driven by monoblock amps.
Some of them anyway ....

 

[Gray]

So they are driven by monoblock amps.
Some of them anyway ....

Surely it could be argued that active speakers are vertically bi-amped speakers.
Two (or more) mono amplifiers (that just happen to be within the same cabinet) powering separate drivers....in a vertical configuration.

 

[Symples]

An interesting read....

Everything You Need to Know About Bi-Amping: Stereo Magazine (stereo-magazine.com)

 

[npxavar]

But the best part (here comes the link) is that the front channels can be bi-amped.
So two sets of speaker cables to the front speakers and the difference?

Louder and more control. Effortlessly plays my Tannoys. I love it
Would I go back to single amping? (Probably, but only if I had powerful amplifier)

Multichannels are not the best for stereo. They are supposed to be combined with a sub. Maybe the only case where biamping can make a significant impact.

 

[nads]

Mmm Bi Amping. Love it been doing it for years. Not got round to running them as Mono blocks yet.