Best Hi-Fi setup for digital music

[admin_exported]

Hi,
It seems the more I read the more confused I get... so hopefully some of you could help me out.

* I intend to spend about £1000 on a hifi setup for my living room.
* Most of the music I listen to will be digital 320 kbs / Lossless format
* Want as good as sound as possible but does not need to be extremely loud
* I currently own an 80gig video ipod which can hold most of my music
* As well as the digital music I would like to use my turntable and TV with the setup
* I will also connect a laptop from time to time to use spotify etc
* I don’t intend to buy a CD separate at this stage.

Ok, so what should I do to get the most out of my digital music collection and avoid an expensive component being underused due to a weak link?

Speakers - I suppose something like the B&W 685 (£380) might be a good place to start? Or B&W 684 (£700) to splash out. Would something like the big 684 be wasted if using mostly for MP3s and at a moderate volume?

amp - Something has to power these speakers, but what? NAD C326BEE (£325) maybe?
But then what’s the story with something like "Fatman iTube 182 / iTube dock" (£649) described by whathifi as "It’s walking a line between being the best iPod system we’ve heard, and an impressive £500-worth of stereo amplifier"? Would this really sound much better than the NAD or are you just paying for the fancy looks?

Interface / source - iPod docks come in a huge range of prices (apple universal dock £35 arcam r-dock £150)... is there really much difference in the sound quality? Is there much difference in sounds between a dock or just using a line from the headphones into an amp? Would a network wireless setup (eg Squeezebox) sound any better than the ipod?

Separate DAC - Don’t really know much about these.... should I?

Hopefully that explains my situation. Any advice you could give would be great!

P.S Just to confuse matters further. I am far more interested in music that films... but I suppose it would be nice to have some kind of very basic surround sound system if it could be added at a small cost. If I buy very good stereo speakers and a multi channel amp, could I that add much cheaper sub, centre and rear speakers to use with films? Are there any multichannel amps that are particularly good for playing music?

Thanks again
Conor

 

[Anonymous]

Welcome Conor!

Well you have done some research which is always good.

The problem with using an ipod as the source is that all the decoding is done internally with its inbuilt dac, this is alright with headphones or a good dock but if you have all your music already on a pc a Squeezebox and a dac would be your best option.

Using a squeezebox (or sonos) will allow you to stream a digital signal which when fed into a dac will give you far superior results than an ipod. If your using a ipod touch you can often use this to control a streaming device, such as the Sonos (similar to the squeezebox) or the manufactures own remote.

The NAD c326bee sounds great with the b&w 685's but as far a similar priced pairings go my experience is limited. I'm sure someone else can advise.

You should look into either the Cambridge DAC magic or Beresford as your choice of dac, with some demos on the kit mentioned to see if you like it.

Any other questions just ask away.

 

[idc]

To keep this as simple as possible, to get the best sound quality you need;

- a place to keep your music files, so a hard drive on PC and or external for back ups and big enough to go lossless as much as possible and to future proof. So 500gb as a minimum, but 1tb is available for under £100 on Amazon.

- a means to transmit the digital files to a DAC, which means either a USB cable from PC to DAC, a digital cable from PC to DAC or wireless from PC to DAC as Brisk has described with above (another means of that being the Apple Airport Express. Different DACs have different connections, though most will accomodate some or all of the above.

- a DAC, the means of converting the digital singnal to analogue for the amp. This is the most important part of the link and you have various choices such as Beresford, DacMagic and V-DAC all of which are reviewed and available to read online in What hifi. From the DAC you need standard analogue (phono) cables to connect to the amp.

- amp and speakers as you and Brisk have already looked at.

You will do all of the above for your budget without too much of a problem.

 

[lordmortlock]

Hey Conor

All good advice. Brisks spot on - It can be tricky to make an ipod really sing, although some top top end £££ docks are supposed to.

The dock systems (fat man etc) are very convenient but won't sound as good as separates. Separates can grow with your needs too, as well as accommodate your turntable and tv. Most folk will tell you that a multi channel amp doesnt sound as good as a dedicated 2 channel amp and I choose to keep my music and tv systems split for this reason. Don't forget you could run your tv though a 2 channel set up and it could still sound pretty good.

If you use itunes and have a wireless network one cheap option could be to buy a apple airport express. This plugs into your hi fi of choice and connects to itunes. You could then control it with the free apple remote software on and ipod touch or iphone (touch isnt too exp 2nd hand) thus having control over all your music streaming from your pc and even adding more aiports in other rooms later.

Connect a DAC between the airport and the hi fi for a massive increase in quality as this will decode the music more effectively. I'd go bereford every time (I see Brisk has one too!)

Hope thats helpful, let us know how you get on!

 

[lordmortlock]

Idc posted whilst typing - some points covered twice!

 

[idc]

lambconor:

Hi,
It seems the more I read the more confused I get... so hopefully some of you could help me out.

* I intend to spend about £1000 on a hifi setup for my living room.
* Most of the music I listen to will be digital 320 kbs / Lossless format
* Want as good as sound as possible but does not need to be extremely loud
* I currently own an 80gig video ipod which can hold most of my music
* As well as the digital music I would like to use my turntable and TV with the setup
* I will also connect a laptop from time to time to use spotify etc
* I don't intend to buy a CD separate at this stage.

With the above as your list of requirements and considering your budget then miss out this..........

lambconor:

But then what's the story with something like "Fatman iTube 182 / iTube dock" (£649) described by whathifi as "It's walking a line between being the best iPod system we've heard, and an impressive £500-worth of stereo amplifier"? Would this really sound much better than the NAD or are you just paying for the fancy looks?

Interface / source - iPod docks come in a huge range of prices (apple universal dock £35 arcam r-dock £150)... is there really much difference in the sound quality? Is there much difference in sounds between a dock or just using a line from the headphones into an amp? Would a network wireless setup (eg Squeezebox) sound any better than the ipod?

....as that is a means of using an ipod as the source for a setup and you will be able to do better than that by using the DAC which is what you need to listen to ......

lambconor: * I will also connect a laptop from time to time to use spotify etc

and I cannot help with regards to the home cinema bit.

 

[Anonymous]

My setup works and sounds great, and Airport Express is far cheaper than other options. If I can't be bothered to get my Macbook Pro I use a wireless keyboard of my iPhone as a remote.

 

[Anonymous]

This is the 1st time I have posted on this forum... and I can't believe the quick response!
All very detailed, informative answers.
Thanks!

So the general message I get is...

For quality music, ditch the ipod...
Connect a computer whatever way you want (wireless wired etc)...
use a good DAC...
add any decent Stereo amp and speakers...
and things will sound great!

Have I missed anything?

I have a few more questions. The squeeze box's audio circuitry is based on a 24-bit DAC (a Burr-Brown PCM1748). Is something like a DACMagic or Beresford REALLY that much better than this integrated DAC?

If using an iPod dock, does the dock act as the DAC or is it still the ipod that makes the sound?

Can you cut out the separate DAC and use an amp with an digital input?

Thanks for your advice

 

[Anonymous]

lambconor:
This is the 1st time I have posted on this forum... and I can't believe the quick response!
All very detailed, informative answers.
Thanks!

So the general message I get is...

For quality music, ditch the ipod...
Connect a computer whatever way you want (wireless wired etc)...
use a good DAC...
add any decent Stereo amp and speakers...
and things will sound great!

Have I missed anything?

I have a few more questions. The squeeze box's audio circuitry is based on a 24-bit DAC (a Burr-Brown PCM1748). Is something like a DACMagic or Beresford REALLY that much better than this integrated DAC?

If using an iPod dock, does the dock act as the DAC or is it still the ipod that makes the sound?

Can you cut out the separate DAC and use an amp with an digital input?

Thanks for your advice

1) You could start off by connecting your PC directly to your amp using a 3.5mm jack to phono cable. Not brilliant but its a start and cheap.

2)Next upgrade could be for you to go PC --> DAC --> amp. This would be an improvement over option 1.

3)I have a Squeezebox and use it with a Dacmagic. It is better than the internal DAC in the Squeezebox.

But if you can put your PC near your amp then there is no need to buy a Squeezebox unless you want to stream to other rooms or use the additional features of Squeezebox (convenience, internet radio, Napster etc).

For amps with digital input - search on zzgavin in this forum and look for the link in his signature.

 

[lordmortlock]

I can only speak as I find lambconor - My beresford sounds loads better to me than my Squeezebox did. To my ears it seems to make streamed music a bit more 'analogue'. I can't recommend it highly enough.

Some super hi end docks do act as dacs but the majority don't. Check out thr Wadia dock if thats a route you're still considering as thats supposed to be pretty special (although you ll pay for it!)

I can't recommend any amps with digital inputs as I've never come across one. Its more usual for a cd player to have a digital in that makes use of the onboard dac. I've tried the cambridge audio 840c but I still preferred my Beresford!

I guess thats an option if you are buying a good cd player anyway and want to keep the box count down.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Guys,
Thanks again for the replies. Those 3 steps make sense Heystack. I will probably go that route. Haven't had a chance to read up on those Amps with onbaord DACs yet but it is something I will look into. Failing that, the NAD C326BEE - B&W 685 seems like a good combination.

Lordmortlock, I don't actually use CDs that much, I've just got so used to the convenience of having all my music in the one place sowill try to stay away from the expensive cd players. I assume if I buy a cheapish CD player I could then connect it through a Beresford DAC for a big improvement in sound?
I wont actually be buying anything until the end on June but am looking forward to it already.

Thanks for your advice

 

[Anonymous]

The one bit at a time approach has much to recommend it.

Get a decent amp and speakers, use your iPod, then use a computer (I'd recommend a mac), then get a DAC.

Get some stands so that your speakers are well suppported / free from the walls.

as Heystak suggested look at the digital amps listing in my .sig

it is fun and they are really helpful on here

 

[lordmortlock]

thats a fair assumption Conor - The dvd player would basically act as a transport with the dac doing the complicated stuff.

You may want to look at Avi's ADM 9.1 as a totally different option. Active (powered) speakers with a dac and pre amp built in, so you literally just plug in your source. I had a listen to a pair this morning quickly... A very clear, detailed sound and I'll certainly be auditioning further on Saturday.

Pmaninit Pmaninit:My setup works and sounds great, and Airport Express is far cheaper than other options. If I can't be bothered to get my Macbook Pro I use a wireless keyboard of my iPhone as a remote.

Noticed the above. Do you not use the iphones apple remote software from the app store? Its free... and AMAZING!

 

[Anonymous]

lordmortlock:thats a fair assumption Conor - The dvd player would basically act as a transport with the dac doing the complicated stuff. You may want to look at Avi's ADM 9.1 as a totally different option. Active (powered) speakers with a dac and pre amp built in, so you literally just plug in your source. I had a listen to a pair this morning quickly... A very clear, detailed sound and I'll certainly be auditioning further on Saturday.Pmaninit Pmaninit:My setup works and sounds great, and Airport Express is far cheaper than other options. If I can't be bothered to get my Macbook Pro I use a wireless keyboard of my iPhone as a remote.Noticed the above. Do you not use the iphones apple remote software from the app store? Its free... and AMAZING!

Yes I do, it should read 'I use a wireless keyboard OR my iPhone as a remote'

 

[lordmortlock]

Good show - hate the thought of anyone missing out on good free stuff!

 

[Anonymous]

Cool, thanks for the info.

I will check out the Avi's ADM 9.1. Let me know what you make of them after you get another listen.

 

[lordmortlock]

I will. Check out messiahs recent thread too.