Auralic Vesa & Dega??

[CnoEvil]

Its the Peter Tyson branch in Newcastle. The demo for a week comes with a slight catch. Think they want the cash up front for it. i will be given a full refund if I return it. I am not keen on this so we will see how this develops. Not sure what gear they would have that was close to mine. Also not sure much point as not in my room.

The point is to use a revealing system that you like the sound of, so that it can highlight the differences in the DS hierarchy.

Looking at their brands, I would suggest: Linn DS + Arcam A49 + Kudos Cardea C2 or C20 or Super 20.....you can check with Peter Tyson, but I think it would be a fun lively system, that should be detailed enough to show up any differences.

Here is a review of the Super 20: http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/kudos-audio-cardea-anniversary-super-20-loudspeakers/

and http://www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/1113/kudos_audio_super_20.htm

 

[CnoEvil]

Yes I do see your point but with the demo situation , well i am now back to work so just wont have time to do loads of demos.

If we can come to some sort of agreement I will try the ADS. If I think its worth it I will go for it.

But....and its a big but, I think in my head I am back to my original thoughts. PMC26s for now....amp later. Gives the streamer/amp/DAC market time to maybe settle, if thats the right word.

Devialet v MFM6i . I know looks can be deceptive , but I think yesterday i realsed that I loved the oooomph my amp gives. Will the Devialet match it? Leeds and Edinburgh have dealers who do devilalt, but none do PMC........thats the dilemma.

So it looks like either.....ADS........PMC26s or just wait save up some more cash and look at the Devialet 120. Actually I would just about have the cash for the Devialet, but my concern is above, oomph for want of a musical term.

ADS vs PMC26 is an interesting conundrum....can you get some 26s to try at home as well?

If you do get the chance, I think the system I put together would be a very interesting experience....and not just as a means for diagnosis. The A49 is probably the amp I'd go for if I didn't have the AMS35i and Kardas make very good speakers, that I suspect have similar traits to PMC's recent models ie. clean, detailed accurate and musically engaging.

 

[Womaz]

Sorry i meant to say either ADS or the PMC for now. I think my dealer would let me have the PMCs for a week yes.

its all got that confusing I have wrote down my four options *biggrin*

The other one is buy a cheaper but newer streamer as a little appeasement

 

[Womaz]

The dealer I normally go to has both PMC and MF gear, so very easy to compare my speakers with the 26s , however a home demo would be needed as my room might be too small for the 26s. Only 14ft x 23ft

 

[Womaz]

Come on Cno give me your take on the oooomph factor or my amp v the Devialet.....I sense your apprehension *biggrin*

 

[CnoEvil]

Sorry i meant to say either ADS or the PMC for now. I think my dealer would let me have the PMCs for a week yes.

its all got that confusing I have wrote down my four options *biggrin*

The other one is buy a cheaper but newer streamer as a little appeasement

Yes, the conundrum I was referring to was which one would bring the biggest improvement....initially it would probably be the speakers, but the subtle element might kick in. If you had both at the same time, you would really hear what more money would get you. *diablo*

 

[CnoEvil]

....however a home demo would be needed as my room might be too small for the 26s. Only 14ft x 23ft

That is roughly the same as my listening room (mine also has 11' ceiling), where the Kef Ref 205/2s work fine.

 

[iQ Speakers]

Really interesting post guys as usual strong and useful posts Cno think I'll have to read it all the way through.

 

[Womaz]

Sorry i meant to say either ADS or the PMC for now. I think my dealer would let me have the PMCs for a week yes.

its all got that confusing I have wrote down my four options *biggrin*

The other one is buy a cheaper but newer streamer as a little appeasement

Yes, the conundrum I was referring to was which one would bring the biggest improvement....initially it would probably be the speakers, but the subtle element might kick in. If you had both at the same time, you would really hear what more money would get you. *diablo*

Cant see me having them both together....also Imagine if its utopia and I cant afford both!!*biggrin*

PS I know you meant for comparison purposes. Just hope I can demo the Linn ADS first.

 

[Womaz]

Really interesting post guys as usual strong and useful posts Cno think I'll have to read it all the way through.

Its been a brillaint post and I have certainly been helped by it. Cno will not know this but I am sure it was his posts about MF that prompted me to demo them 3 years ago, when i went for my present system.

 

[CnoEvil]

Come on Cno give me your take on the oooomph factor or my amp v the Devialet.....I sense your apprehension *biggrin*

I don't know enough to have proper apprehension.....though my only reservation is not so much to do with ooomph, but that it would sound totally different from the M6i that you love. That could work either way.

I don't think that I personally would like the combination with PMC Twenty Series, which might be a little clean and analytical for my taste.....though this is pure CONJECTURE.....now paired with SF or Harbeth would be a different matter.

 

[CnoEvil]

Really interesting post guys as usual strong and useful posts Cno think I'll have to read it all the way through.

...though I haven't got onto the subject of cabling yet! *diablo*

 

[Womaz]

I think its the M6i i love, I dont really know what give me the big change as I bought the PMCs at the same time. I love the combination. I just feel that my amp is one powerful beast.....and it certainly looks like it. Mind you I seen the Nuvista the other day and my amp is a mere baby compared to that.

 

[CnoEvil]

I think its the M6i i love, I dont really know what give me the big change as I bought the PMCs at the same time. I love the combination. I just feel that my amp is one powerful beast.....and it certainly looks like it. Mind you I seen the Nuvista the other day and my amp is a mere baby compared to that.

Here is a quote from Soundstage Network:

"High-powered amplifiers have become somewhat of a specialty at Musical Fidelity, whose founder, chief designer, and managing director, Antony Michaelson, has for years advocated realistic playback dynamics and sound-pressure levels. Michaelson is also a fine classical clarinetist who knows a thing or two about how dynamic, loud, and simply raucous live music can be. Rated at 200Wpc into 8 ohms, the M6i is indeed powerful, especially for an integrated, but the magic is in its ability to provide the current that a speaker’s woofer longs for. A good indication of this is the M6i’s power delivery into low impedances, which doubles into 4 ohms (400W), and again into 2 ohms (800W). In fact, MF claims that the M6i can pass 45 amps peak current. It’s perhaps not an arc welder, but darn close!"

 

[Womaz]

I think its the M6i i love, I dont really know what give me the big change as I bought the PMCs at the same time. I love the combination. I just feel that my amp is one powerful beast.....and it certainly looks like it. Mind you I seen the Nuvista the other day and my amp is a mere baby compared to that.

Here is a quote from Soundstage Network:

"High-powered amplifiers have become somewhat of a specialty at Musical Fidelity, whose founder, chief designer, and managing director, Antony Michaelson, has for years advocated realistic playback dynamics and sound-pressure levels. Michaelson is also a fine classical clarinetist who knows a thing or two about how dynamic, loud, and simply raucous live music can be. Rated at 200Wpc into 8 ohms, the M6i is indeed powerful, especially for an integrated, but the magic is in its ability to provide the current that a speaker’s woofer longs for. A good indication of this is the M6i’s power delivery into low impedances, which doubles into 4 ohms (400W), and again into 2 ohms (800W). In fact, MF claims that the M6i can pass 45 amps peak current. It’s perhaps not an arc welder, but darn close!"

There you go then*biggrin* It might be a keeper.

 

[gowiththeflow]

....Leeds and Edinburgh have dealers who do Devialet, but none do PMC........thats the dilemma....

Do you mean Devialet dealers who also do PMC?

I think Audio Republic in Leeds do both.

PMC dealers in Edinburgh (Homesound) and Newcastle (Lintone), don't do Devialet.

 

[Womaz]

....Leeds and Edinburgh have dealers who do Devialet, but none do PMC........thats the dilemma....

Do you mean Devialet dealers who also do PMC?

I think Audio Republic in Leeds do both.

PMC dealers in Edinburgh (Homesound) and Newcastle (Lintone), don't do Devialet.

Thats good news then, did not see PMC on their site. Its still a 240 mile trip for a demo. Thats why I need to decide which route I am heading. I will know a lot more if I get a chance to demo the Akurate DS

 

[iQ Speakers]

Really interesting post guys as usual strong and useful posts Cno think I'll have to read it all the way through.

...though I haven't got onto the subject of cabling yet! *diablo*

*stop*DON'T

Womaz i know the feeling well.

 

[matt49]

Come on Cno give me your take on the oooomph factor or my amp v the Devialet.....I sense your apprehension *biggrin*

I’ll be happy to eat my hat (and the hats of all members of the forum) if the Devialet doesn’t produce far more “oomph” than your MF amp. There are two reasons for this.

Damping factor:

An amp’s damping factor is a fair indication of its ability to control the movement of a speaker’s drivers, especially those big and unruly woofers. A damping factor of 40 or so is generally considered to be good enough. The MF 6si has a damping factor of 180, which is excellent. The Devialet has a damping factor of 8000. If there’s an amp on the market with a better damping factor, I’d love to see it.

SAM:

Woofers distort far more than tweeters. That’s fine, because our hearing is much less sensitive at low frequencies than high frequencies. Still, it would be great if woofers distorted less,. But speaker manufacturers don’t want us to know about LF distortion. Most manufacturers won’t give you distortion figures for their woofers because they look so awful. B&W are unusual in that they do publish distortion figures for the LF response of their Diamond range. The B&W 800 Diamonds (RRP £18,000) claim distortion of less than 1% from 45Hz to 100kHz. But below 45Hz (and bear in mind these are huge speakers with two 10” woofers that play well below 45Hz) the distortion figures would look pretty awful. B&W don't publish them.

Devialet’s SAM system is designed to rectify LF distortion. SAM works like this. Devialet have measured the PMC 23s in their research lab in Paris. They’ve compared the input from the amp into the PMC23s’ woofers with the output of the woofers. On this basis they compute the transfer function of the bass distortion and, with the help of some clever maths, they invert that function so that the output matches the input. In addition they build in protection that prevents excessive and damaging excursion of the woofers. The result is that the woofers are able to go far deeper and with far less distortion than if they were driven by a normal amp. And that means: bass slam. The SAM effect is even greater for speakers with small woofers, like your PMCs, which have 5.5” woofers.

So if you want “oomph”, and more to the point accurate “oomph”, Devialet will give you it. In spades.

Matt

 

[DocG]

An amp’s damping factor is a fair indication of its ability to control the movement of a speaker’s drivers, especially those big and unruly woofers. A damping factor of 40 or so is generally considered to be good enough. The MF 6si has a damping factor of 180, which is excellent. The Devialet has a damping factor of 8000. If there’s an amp on the market with a better damping factor, I’d love to see it.

I know of only one: the Hypex NCore modules, as used in NAD's newish M22 power amp. Also available for DIY, like Esra posted about recently; planning to use them myself in the not-too-distant future. The NC400 has a DF of 11.000.

Of course, you only buy (the bits to build) a power amp here, not a smart-looking, upgradeable, DSP-controlled, integrated DAC-amp with a gorgeous remote...

 

[matt49]

I know of only one: the Hypex NCore modules, as used in NAD's newish M22 power amp. Also available for DIY, like Esra posted about recently; planning to use them myself in the not-too-distant future. The NC400 has a DF of 11.000.

Of course, you only buy (the bits to build) a power amp here, not a smart-looking, upgradeable, DSP-controlled, integrated DAC-amp with a gorgeous remote...

Interesting. Is this what you're getting for your Maggies?

 

[DocG]

I know of only one: the Hypex NCore modules, as used in NAD's newish M22 power amp. Also available for DIY, like Esra posted about recently; planning to use them myself in the not-too-distant future. The NC400 has a DF of 11.000.

Of course, you only buy (the bits to build) a power amp here, not a smart-looking, upgradeable, DSP-controlled, integrated DAC-amp with a gorgeous remote...

Interesting. Is this what you're getting for your Maggies?

Yes, it is! The Maggies are on their way, and so is a first set of 1 PSU + 2 amp modules. Will cross everything over with a DEQX (probably the HDP-4).

So basically a DSP for room/speaker treatment + XO, that I never tried, steering 4 channels of amplification I never demoed, driving a pair of speakers I never heard... It'll be stunning! What could possibly go wrong? *biggrin*

 

[matt49]

I know of only one: the Hypex NCore modules, as used in NAD's newish M22 power amp. Also available for DIY, like Esra posted about recently; planning to use them myself in the not-too-distant future. The NC400 has a DF of 11.000.

Of course, you only buy (the bits to build) a power amp here, not a smart-looking, upgradeable, DSP-controlled, integrated DAC-amp with a gorgeous remote...

Interesting. Is this what you're getting for your Maggies?

Yes, it is! The Maggies are on their way, and so is a first set of 1 PSU + 2 amp modules. Will cross everything over with a DEQX (probably the HDP-4).

So basically a DSP for room/speaker treatment + XO, that I never tried, steering 4 channels of amplification I never demoed, driving a pair of speakers I never heard... It'll be stunning! What could possibly go wrong? *biggrin*

Yeah, why make life boring by demoing stuff?

Actually I think you're on pretty safe ground. Magnepan + Hypex is a tried and tested combo. My only worry would be that once you've had the Maggies for a while you'll feel the urge to trade up to something bigger. *bomb*

 

[Womaz]

I read some of these posts sometime and I think I am in a Physics class or something similar *biggrin*

On a serious note though, the Devialet is now getting serious consideration. I am still hoping to demo the ADS.

Always read about the Devialet gear but just thought it was way out off my price range. it appears they are not so thanks for pointing this out. Like I have said though I love the MF-PMC combo so a demo is a must. Devialet is probably the sexiest bit of hi fi kit I have ever seen if I am honest, but it is so different, that a total room, speaker stand revamp would be needed. not to mention the £600 USB cable I was told I would need.*biggrin *biggrin*

Some great posts on here so thanks for all the help and for taking the time out to do so

 

[Womaz]

Oh well a disappointment today. The Linn dealer wants £4500 up front for me to demo it in my home. Shocked and disappointed.

I think the lad who is , or was helping me has his hands tied. Its company policy. Never come across this before.

I guess this gives me more time to think. Catch 22. I want to hear Linn in my system, but not on those terms.