DocG
Well-known member
This hifi lark is a funny old thing. This is why I find these forums so useful as this morning i have woke up and just decided not to rush into anything. There is no hurry. I also need some time to reflect on things that I have considered over last few weeks.
I do still quite fancy the ADS demo at home, but I now think I have unrealistic expectations. I am thinking 4.5k outlay on a source will blow my mind. For that sort of money thats what it needs to do. After yesterday I am not sure it will do that. Cno you mentioned subtle differences. TBH for an outlay of 4.5k I want more than that. Maybe I have reached the point where to get anything much superios to what I have will take some serious cash. Not sure anymore.
Three year ago I changed my whole system from Arcam/Quad combo to my present system.......and I was blown away. Totally. The difference was amazing.
I am now starting to thnk that is maybe the way to go. Wait until there are more funds. If I wait a year or two years then I could have 10to 12k to throw at it as mortgage is now paid off virtually and cash can be saved. That 10 to 12k plus my trade in value will give me around 13 to 15k possibly, and also start from scratch again. Also there is so much change with dacs/streamers and amps with dacs right now that it might be best to sit it out and see what develops. The the Devialet.....or NuVista may even be an option.
The only other thing I may consider funnily takes me back to exactly where i started two weeks ago. I was originally thinking about replacing my PMC23s with the PMC26s. In my own head I still feel this is where I will get more bang for my bucks. If i did go down this route in next month or so then next year or year after when i had another chunk of cash to throw at it then i could build my system around the PMC26s.
Of course its early morning and it could all change by this evening *biggrin*
I do still quite fancy the ADS demo at home, but I now think I have unrealistic expectations. I am thinking 4.5k outlay on a source will blow my mind. For that sort of money thats what it needs to do. After yesterday I am not sure it will do that. Cno you mentioned subtle differences. TBH for an outlay of 4.5k I want more than that. Maybe I have reached the point where to get anything much superios to what I have will take some serious cash. Not sure anymore.
Three year ago I changed my whole system from Arcam/Quad combo to my present system.......and I was blown away. Totally. The difference was amazing.
I am now starting to thnk that is maybe the way to go. Wait until there are more funds. If I wait a year or two years then I could have 10to 12k to throw at it as mortgage is now paid off virtually and cash can be saved. That 10 to 12k plus my trade in value will give me around 13 to 15k possibly, and also start from scratch again. Also there is so much change with dacs/streamers and amps with dacs right now that it might be best to sit it out and see what develops. The the Devialet.....or NuVista may even be an option.
The only other thing I may consider funnily takes me back to exactly where i started two weeks ago. I was originally thinking about replacing my PMC23s with the PMC26s. In my own head I still feel this is where I will get more bang for my bucks. If i did go down this route in next month or so then next year or year after when i had another chunk of cash to throw at it then i could build my system around the PMC26s.
Of course its early morning and it could all change by this evening *biggrin*
DocG
Well-known member
Womaz said:
I have a Devialet 120 driving (SAM-enabled) LS50s. I used a Sonos Connect and a Rotel CDP as sources, which I recently replaced with a NAD M50. The M50 is a streamer, with BlueSound multiroom functionality, and with Spotify Connect, and it's also a CDP and a CD-ripper. I can (and do) use all those functions. The M50 has no DAC (so I'm not paying for a DAC-section I won't use). It's connected through a Power-LAN at the moment: not ideal, but will change to UTP in the new house. IMO, the BluOS user interface is on par with the Sonos UI.
So I'm pretty happy with the current combo. The significant discount helped me decide too, to be frank. *ok*
DocG said:
Thats excellent, thank you for sharing this. So the bulk of the cash is on the Devialet I guess.
gowiththeflow
Well-known member
Womaz said:
Most, if any of the subtle differences probably won't be coming from the streaming aspect of the device. It might be more worthwhile to bypass the DAC in the MF CLIC and use a good quality external DAC. Not only would this save a significant amount of money, it might actually render audible results equal to or superior to those obtained with the ADS.
Example - the highly rated Hegel H12 @ £900 or the (very much high end) Auralic Vega @ £2890. There are other well regarded contenders in the marketplace.
matt49
Well-known member
DocG said:
I currently use a modded Sonos Connect as source via coax SPDIF. (The mods include power supply and clock.) But I haven't reached my destination yet. We moved house in October, and the metaphorical (and real) dust is still settling. In a month or so the living room will be finished, and I'll be in a position to trial some streaming solutions.
The Doc's M50 looks like a nice machine, though for my purposes it's overspecced. I wouldn't need the ripping facility, and the only streaming service I'm interested in is Qobuz. Also it doesn't appear to do SACD.
gowiththeflow said:
Yes I considered this too, a better DAC, but unfortunatley the CLIC does not have the outputs to do that.
gowiththeflow
Well-known member
DocG said:
I'm also using a M50 (combined with the M52), which I'm pleased with. I also use a Sonos Connect.
However, I really don't have any good words to say about the BluOS user interface. There are some good aspects to it, but compared with the Sonos interface, I think it's pants.
gowiththeflow
Well-known member
Womaz said:
Apologies. I thought I remembered, more likely assumed, it had a digital out. I just checked and you're absolutely correct.
Scrub that idea; but you can see where I was coming from.
DocG
Well-known member
Womaz said:
Yes, bulk of the cash for bulk of the functionality: some 2/3 of the total budget, but then again, it's a DAC + integrated amp + its effect on the speaker performance is substantial too. I'm not using the AIR streaming function myself (not reliable enough in our current situation, with WiFi and PowerLANs), but that's also included in the package.
And the free upgrades are nice (extra power thru a firmware upgrade, the SAM protocols, and who knows what's on the horizon)!
gowiththeflow said:
That was an idea i put to my dealer, the M6Dac was considered by me as i like the MF sound and looks......like i say time to sit back and reflect.
Just in the last hour a pal has rang me and he has another mate who is selling a Klimax DS for about 4k. ........but I said no......I think *biggrin*
DocG said:
Yes Devialet is definitely on my future shopping list.....maybe with some new PMC26s. Devialet would also totally change the room aesthetics.......for the better I may add.
I would certainly have empathy for your position, as I've been there and got the T-Shirt.
I have been treading a fine line between encouraging you to try stuff, while also advising caution/patience....though just for clarification, I need to explain my position on the Digital Source more clearly.
When I said the difference a source made was "subtle", it was in comparison to amps and speakers, where especially with the latter, the difference can immediately smack you across the face.
So when I say subtle, I don't mean it's not worthwhile, but that it can take a bit longer to assess the improvements. This can be very noticeable if you have lived with it for a few days and put back the old source. It is then not uncommon to find there is now something "missing", which drops your enjoyment and involvement down a few notches.
So to pick the bones out of what I am saying, I would advise the following.
- It is quite sensible to take your time, but don't stop your demoing of stuff ie. To see where the best balance of funds lies between Source and Amp.
- If your dealer has brands nearer to your own, try to get him to demonstrate the difference between Sneaky, MDS and ADS.
- Be straight with you dealer and ask him to help you find the correct path, and say a home dem is essential in this process.
- If you are going to live with your system for some time, it's essential that you discover the right amount (which may be nothing) to throw at it.
- Compare all in one Streamer / Clic + Dac / Devialet type solution (where the amp has an integrated DAC).
- The more actual demoing you do, the clearer things become....it helps wade through the well meaning, but ultimately confusing/conflicting advice you are getting from us lot, and so find where you ultimately stand on the matter.
I have been treading a fine line between encouraging you to try stuff, while also advising caution/patience....though just for clarification, I need to explain my position on the Digital Source more clearly.
When I said the difference a source made was "subtle", it was in comparison to amps and speakers, where especially with the latter, the difference can immediately smack you across the face.
So when I say subtle, I don't mean it's not worthwhile, but that it can take a bit longer to assess the improvements. This can be very noticeable if you have lived with it for a few days and put back the old source. It is then not uncommon to find there is now something "missing", which drops your enjoyment and involvement down a few notches.
So to pick the bones out of what I am saying, I would advise the following.
- It is quite sensible to take your time, but don't stop your demoing of stuff ie. To see where the best balance of funds lies between Source and Amp.
- If your dealer has brands nearer to your own, try to get him to demonstrate the difference between Sneaky, MDS and ADS.
- Be straight with you dealer and ask him to help you find the correct path, and say a home dem is essential in this process.
- If you are going to live with your system for some time, it's essential that you discover the right amount (which may be nothing) to throw at it.
- Compare all in one Streamer / Clic + Dac / Devialet type solution (where the amp has an integrated DAC).
- The more actual demoing you do, the clearer things become....it helps wade through the well meaning, but ultimately confusing/conflicting advice you are getting from us lot, and so find where you ultimately stand on the matter.
CnoEvil said:
Yes it all gets a bit confusing. I think your point about listening to a new product for a little while and then replacing the source is a good one and probably why my Linn dealer wants to give me a ADS for a weeks trail.
I am still keen to hear the ADS in my system.....not sure what response I would get if i asked for the sneaky and majik as well*biggrin*
It does bring me back to where I was two weeks ago. I am no hifi expert, far from it, but I had sort of drawn the conslusion that the amp and speakers were the two major considerations for upgrade, hence the PMC 26 enquiry. That of course is getting a little more compliaced with amps with DACs and what have you.
The troubke I have up in Newcastle is the dealers dont offer a lot of variety. they are bloody helpful and always go out of there way to help me, but I guess they are limited to what they can offer.
I am in the process of investigating the Devialet as a solution like that, less boxes, less £200 cables really does appeal.
I would love to hear a Devialet with my 23s and the 26s. All of this cant be purchased all at once, but it would give me a goal if you like, and if i dont replace the source now some of this is achievable in the next few months. Looks like i would have to travel to Edinburgh to do a demo though, so for me I cant keep doing demos. I would have to have a very definite shortlist and take it from there.
Sorry I have alot on, but started to skip through the thread, interesting, Linn same price as a Devilat wow. Having heard and seen the Dev, and knowing the scope of CPU based products, think Sonos, to stay current and flexible I would say thats an exeptionally good idea. I can see me buying one before long, it just seems to make sence, Just softening Mrs B up with all these boxes coming and going.
matt49
Well-known member
iQ Speakers said:
This is where your friendly Devialet owner steps up to the mark. Sometime over the next month or two we should get together in Cheltenham or at our place near Stroud. I can bring my Devialet up from London for you to have a play with. Interested?
Womaz said:
It might be worth signing up to Devialet Chat (the unofficial Dev owners' forum) and asking whether there are any owners near you on the Tyne. I'm not sure there are any, but no harm in trying.
Matt
Tell you what its nigh on impossible to get a price on them. The 120 and 200 could be within my grasp...........
Interested!! Is the Po...... If we do it in Cheltenham I know a great bar, The Retreat for lunch, they also have one in Stroud though not a chain, so don't know if they do great food. Let me get the Abrahamsen working! And a set of competed speakers! Oh not to mention s decent source. Apart from that we're good to go.
matt49
Well-known member
iQ Speakers said:
Yep, no hurry: just e-mail me when it looks like things are coming together. We also have some lovely pubs near us in Bisley and Slad.
I use a pair of PMC GB1s up in Glos that I bought second hand. They'd make for an interesting comparison with your speakers, not least because they're really out of their depth in the room. Your speakers will make a better fist of filling the space, I reckon.
Womaz said:
This is why I suggested getting your dealer to demonstrate the difference in his shop, on a system closer to yours....who is the dealer and what brands do they stock?....can you give a link?
If your dealer will lend you an ADS for a week, then take them up on the offer and you will be a lot wiser (one way or the other).
CnoEvil said:
Its the Peter Tyson branch in Newcastle. The demo for a week comes with a slight catch. Think they want the cash up front for it. i will be given a full refund if I return it. I am not keen on this so we will see how this develops. Not sure what gear they would have that was close to mine. Also not sure much point as not in my room.
Yes I do see your point but with the demo situation , well i am now back to work so just wont have time to do loads of demos.
If we can come to some sort of agreement I will try the ADS. If I think its worth it I will go for it.
But....and its a big but, I think in my head I am back to my original thoughts. PMC26s for now....amp later. Gives the streamer/amp/DAC market time to maybe settle, if thats the right word.
Devialet v MFM6i . I know looks can be deceptive , but I think yesterday i realsed that I loved the oooomph my amp gives. Will the Devialet match it? Leeds and Edinburgh have dealers who do devilalt, but none do PMC........thats the dilemma.
So it looks like either.....ADS........PMC26s or just wait save up some more cash and look at the Devialet 120. Actually I would just about have the cash for the Devialet, but my concern is above, oomph for want of a musical term.
If we can come to some sort of agreement I will try the ADS. If I think its worth it I will go for it.
But....and its a big but, I think in my head I am back to my original thoughts. PMC26s for now....amp later. Gives the streamer/amp/DAC market time to maybe settle, if thats the right word.
Devialet v MFM6i . I know looks can be deceptive , but I think yesterday i realsed that I loved the oooomph my amp gives. Will the Devialet match it? Leeds and Edinburgh have dealers who do devilalt, but none do PMC........thats the dilemma.
So it looks like either.....ADS........PMC26s or just wait save up some more cash and look at the Devialet 120. Actually I would just about have the cash for the Devialet, but my concern is above, oomph for want of a musical term.
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