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When should you upgrade your hi-fi? How to control ‘upgradeitis’
matthewpiano
Well-known member
I think everything is telling you to stick with the standard Croft and your PMCs. They clearly give you a lot of musical pleasure so, as you say, just carry on enjoying the music.
I'm not totally surprised. PMC haved long made rather special sounding speakers and I suspect you would have to spend a lot of money to convincingly improve on them.
I'm not totally surprised. PMC haved long made rather special sounding speakers and I suspect you would have to spend a lot of money to convincingly improve on them.
Thats what I thought at 5 o'clock this evening Matthew . . . However, I have the evening to have a final listen, its been playing in the background all day, might as well make the best of it befor the return tomorrow morning . . . *pardon*
I have racked up some 24 hours running time on top of the 6 hours the dealer had put on. Nothing special on offer . . . ? So I chose a well liked Spotify track to relax to befor tea time . . . Hang on a minuite, thats not what the Croft 'R' sounded like this morning. The slow tempo had morphed into a laid back rexed 'listen to me' type sound. There was a base line, turn the volume up a tad, a natural sound stage was being presented. Out came the tracks that we used yesterday, a totaly different presentation, solid, musical and room filling, totaly convincing, beguiling even?
A little more volume, I grabed track after track and this is on CD, Pavarotti, Dance Macarbre, Nigel Kennedy, Kiri Te Kanawa, speed, power, control, hi frequancy stability, superb base line and great mid rang presentation. The presentation was big and life like . . . had me scrabaling for the vinyl, Jennifer Warnes, Paul Simon and Sandy Nelson.
. . . I have never heard Sandy Nelson sound so much in the room!!!! Finaly put my favourit Proprius Organ recording on. I turned the volume up a little and sat back, it was like being in the organ loft, I could reach out and touch the pipes. Which brings me onto the LB1's, they have never sounded so 'big', considering they are only about twice the phisical size of an LS35a, if I did not know better I would have said this was floor stander power and pressance!!!!!
So, dont any one ever try to tell me amplifiers dont need running in. I estimate the Croft R has had 30-35 hours. This transformation did not show any evidence of take place at 20 hours running time. My thinking now, how much better over how much time???????
Running into Horlicks hour, a few more favourits to listen to and the inevitable vinyl version of 'Tallis Scholars, Miserere' recorded at Morten College Chapel in 1980, this will be the highlight of my amazing experiance with Glen Crofts 'R' Intigrated Hybrid Amplifier.
My next issue on Tuesday, is to go back to the Croft Basic, listen to a few tracks just to make sure I was not kidding myself . . . believe me, after such a night and day experiance I dont think there is any doubt.
Hazel has come to tems with the expense . . . *biggrin*
CJSF
I have racked up some 24 hours running time on top of the 6 hours the dealer had put on. Nothing special on offer . . . ? So I chose a well liked Spotify track to relax to befor tea time . . . Hang on a minuite, thats not what the Croft 'R' sounded like this morning. The slow tempo had morphed into a laid back rexed 'listen to me' type sound. There was a base line, turn the volume up a tad, a natural sound stage was being presented. Out came the tracks that we used yesterday, a totaly different presentation, solid, musical and room filling, totaly convincing, beguiling even?
A little more volume, I grabed track after track and this is on CD, Pavarotti, Dance Macarbre, Nigel Kennedy, Kiri Te Kanawa, speed, power, control, hi frequancy stability, superb base line and great mid rang presentation. The presentation was big and life like . . . had me scrabaling for the vinyl, Jennifer Warnes, Paul Simon and Sandy Nelson.
. . . I have never heard Sandy Nelson sound so much in the room!!!! Finaly put my favourit Proprius Organ recording on. I turned the volume up a little and sat back, it was like being in the organ loft, I could reach out and touch the pipes. Which brings me onto the LB1's, they have never sounded so 'big', considering they are only about twice the phisical size of an LS35a, if I did not know better I would have said this was floor stander power and pressance!!!!!
So, dont any one ever try to tell me amplifiers dont need running in. I estimate the Croft R has had 30-35 hours. This transformation did not show any evidence of take place at 20 hours running time. My thinking now, how much better over how much time???????
Running into Horlicks hour, a few more favourits to listen to and the inevitable vinyl version of 'Tallis Scholars, Miserere' recorded at Morten College Chapel in 1980, this will be the highlight of my amazing experiance with Glen Crofts 'R' Intigrated Hybrid Amplifier.
My next issue on Tuesday, is to go back to the Croft Basic, listen to a few tracks just to make sure I was not kidding myself . . . believe me, after such a night and day experiance I dont think there is any doubt.
Hazel has come to tems with the expense . . . *biggrin*
CJSF
There is one small problem, if I go Croft 'R' intigrated, there is stuff I can hear on vinyle that can be adjusted out with the tone arm/cartridge settings*pardon* . . . back to tweeking *dash1*
Should I do that???????
CJSF
Should I do that???????
CJSF
CJSF said:
Ah, the ever re-occuring epiphany effect ... almost unique to audiophiles
Having said that, I thought it in the past that I have heard amplifiers change their signature subtly albeith over a much shorter period of time, from cold to warm. No such issues with my cyrus'es but even so I tend to switch them on a few minutes before listening anyway.
Nothing to do with epiphany DM, facts are facts which ever way you slice them or what bucket of sand you choose to put you head in?
I need to check out my findings on Tuesday and then have a second session with the Croft 'R'/Croft Basic, this time the R will be 'run in' so I will have much more time to do direct AB comparisons.
In the meantime, relax and enjoy the music . . . *smile*
I need to check out my findings on Tuesday and then have a second session with the Croft 'R'/Croft Basic, this time the R will be 'run in' so I will have much more time to do direct AB comparisons.
In the meantime, relax and enjoy the music . . . *smile*
Sitting here, usualy I have some music playing, not at the moment, I feel like I am at some sort of personal crossroad and that anything else going on would be a destraction.
I've . . . actualy, 'we' have had 6 hours of serious evaluation, two yesterday afternoon and another four from 11.45 this morning.
I have gone deep into my reasons for being in this situation in the first place, and then where are we at? It has been a shock for me, a valve man for someany years and now a hybrid has taken my attention.
It all started when I changed the room around, I had occasion to swap the Croft back for a while, it was obvious there was a positive change in the sound presentation. I swaped arond a few times, most listenig was via Spotify or CD, the od vinyal but as the records were in semi storage I did not persue it.
Since then, we have just got on with life, through the summer, devoting much time to my glider flying and garden. A bit more listening as autum drew on, a conversation with Dave Wren re the Croft 'R' as well as emails to Glen Croft re a rebuild. All a bit by the way I thought at the time. Then an email out of the blue from Dave, he now had a demo 'R' would I like to borrow it for the weekend, that was last Friday afternoon!
As we know, the weekend was definatly a story of two halves, or more accuratly, two thirds and one third I supose? The first two thirds was a disapointment on speaker and amplifier fronts. Sunday evenig was an evelation as far as the Croft R was concerened.
So here I am having mentaly relived Sunday evening and compared the experiance with 6 hours of 'evaluation' reality, and the 'battle of the two Crofts'? . . . more friendly rivalry realy.
There is not much betweem them when it comes to Spotify or CD, there are differeances to be had but over all if it was just those two mediums I'm not sure at the hard ware level I'm at, I doubt it would represent good value with £850 playing £1700! Throw in vinyal and things chang dramatcaly.
As I say, I have used my vinyl very little for a long time, the Icom PS1 phono stage is a superb match to the Croft amps. A superb sound with the Basic but ad the 'R' and it is simply amazing. I have mentioned previously in the thread 'giant killer' . . . the PS1 + Croft 'R' might just be that magic combination, given a decent turn table, arm and cartridge?
The 'Croft 'R' producing analogue has a fullness, power and control I have not heard at this price level, now or 30 years ago. Not writing of the 'Croft Basic', its nipping at the heals of the R, but in performance terms, the 'R' sit you a few rows futher forward in the auditorium and gives a cleaner perception, knocking of a few of the rough edges, at high fequancy. The base line takes on a slightly more informative roll as well, add an extra layer or two. The all importany middrange, there is little to choose.
As the volume is increased, there is also a better grip all round from the 'R' producing a 'BIG'er sound', and this is from my small'ish, stand mounted PMC LB1, as I say, the 'Basic' does *** at the heals of its sibbling.
The other thing I have come to apreciate is the match of the system and its suroundings. The speakers are old at 25 years but they produce a superbly natural human voice, the room accustics have been matched as best I can to the sound of the system. Trying to introduce a modern pair of speakers did not work. The TT has been the subject of much tweeking with the Croft and PMC's at the heart, so I supose it is a natural assumption there is a synergy at work here.
Summing up, I can see the advantage, for me to have the Basic Croft rebuilt to 'R' specification, at around £500 it represents a wothwhile move, like changing a tone arm on a TT? The jump from 'Basic' to 'R' as a raw purchase is another kettle of fish and has to be considered within the 'giant killer' thinking, where do you go financialy to improve on it . . . big bucks I think?
My system presents to me as 'organicly natural', and as much of my listening is 'unpluged' the naturalness is emphasised, change any piece with great care is my watch word.
The last few days have been ones of revelation, frutration and pleasure, the icing on the cake, last night it was my flying cub Christmas do, I was presented with the winners trophy for the Glider Leauge 2014, I had no idea, what a plesent suprise, I never look at the tables, I am in it only for the personal pleasure.
It will be nice to sit back, relax and 'listen to music' tonight . . .
CJSF
I've . . . actualy, 'we' have had 6 hours of serious evaluation, two yesterday afternoon and another four from 11.45 this morning.
I have gone deep into my reasons for being in this situation in the first place, and then where are we at? It has been a shock for me, a valve man for someany years and now a hybrid has taken my attention.
It all started when I changed the room around, I had occasion to swap the Croft back for a while, it was obvious there was a positive change in the sound presentation. I swaped arond a few times, most listenig was via Spotify or CD, the od vinyal but as the records were in semi storage I did not persue it.
Since then, we have just got on with life, through the summer, devoting much time to my glider flying and garden. A bit more listening as autum drew on, a conversation with Dave Wren re the Croft 'R' as well as emails to Glen Croft re a rebuild. All a bit by the way I thought at the time. Then an email out of the blue from Dave, he now had a demo 'R' would I like to borrow it for the weekend, that was last Friday afternoon!
As we know, the weekend was definatly a story of two halves, or more accuratly, two thirds and one third I supose? The first two thirds was a disapointment on speaker and amplifier fronts. Sunday evenig was an evelation as far as the Croft R was concerened.
So here I am having mentaly relived Sunday evening and compared the experiance with 6 hours of 'evaluation' reality, and the 'battle of the two Crofts'? . . . more friendly rivalry realy.
There is not much betweem them when it comes to Spotify or CD, there are differeances to be had but over all if it was just those two mediums I'm not sure at the hard ware level I'm at, I doubt it would represent good value with £850 playing £1700! Throw in vinyal and things chang dramatcaly.
As I say, I have used my vinyl very little for a long time, the Icom PS1 phono stage is a superb match to the Croft amps. A superb sound with the Basic but ad the 'R' and it is simply amazing. I have mentioned previously in the thread 'giant killer' . . . the PS1 + Croft 'R' might just be that magic combination, given a decent turn table, arm and cartridge?
The 'Croft 'R' producing analogue has a fullness, power and control I have not heard at this price level, now or 30 years ago. Not writing of the 'Croft Basic', its nipping at the heals of the R, but in performance terms, the 'R' sit you a few rows futher forward in the auditorium and gives a cleaner perception, knocking of a few of the rough edges, at high fequancy. The base line takes on a slightly more informative roll as well, add an extra layer or two. The all importany middrange, there is little to choose.
As the volume is increased, there is also a better grip all round from the 'R' producing a 'BIG'er sound', and this is from my small'ish, stand mounted PMC LB1, as I say, the 'Basic' does *** at the heals of its sibbling.
The other thing I have come to apreciate is the match of the system and its suroundings. The speakers are old at 25 years but they produce a superbly natural human voice, the room accustics have been matched as best I can to the sound of the system. Trying to introduce a modern pair of speakers did not work. The TT has been the subject of much tweeking with the Croft and PMC's at the heart, so I supose it is a natural assumption there is a synergy at work here.
Summing up, I can see the advantage, for me to have the Basic Croft rebuilt to 'R' specification, at around £500 it represents a wothwhile move, like changing a tone arm on a TT? The jump from 'Basic' to 'R' as a raw purchase is another kettle of fish and has to be considered within the 'giant killer' thinking, where do you go financialy to improve on it . . . big bucks I think?
My system presents to me as 'organicly natural', and as much of my listening is 'unpluged' the naturalness is emphasised, change any piece with great care is my watch word.
The last few days have been ones of revelation, frutration and pleasure, the icing on the cake, last night it was my flying cub Christmas do, I was presented with the winners trophy for the Glider Leauge 2014, I had no idea, what a plesent suprise, I never look at the tables, I am in it only for the personal pleasure.
It will be nice to sit back, relax and 'listen to music' tonight . . .
CJSF
What I might realy be saying is that the 'Croft Basic' is a bit of a gift at £850 for the 'valved line input' version and also good value at £1000 with a built in quality 'valve phono stage' . . . *preved*
Hi CJ,
Excellent news . I hope you enjoy it !
Love your posts , informative and educational , hope you are happy
James
Excellent news . I hope you enjoy it !
Love your posts , informative and educational , hope you are happy
James
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