Amp Suggestions for Harbeth P3ESR

[Happy_Listener]

Hi everyone!

I bought some new Harbeth P3ESR speakers. My current amp, a Sugden A21 Signature, seems to be a pretty good match. However, I wonder if I can do better? If it has a flaw I think the P3's might need a little more power than the 23 watts the A21 puts out. Any suggestions for an upgrade? A few amps I have in mind are the Sugden A21SE Signature, Croft Series 7 amp with the Croft Micro 25 preamp, Heed Obelisk SI with X2 power supply, LFD LE V, and Lavardin ISx.

What do you all think? Thanks.

 

[Macspur]

Hi everyone!

I bought some new Harbeth P3ESR speakers. My current amp, a Sugden A21 Signature, seems to be a pretty good match. However, I wonder if I can do better? If it has a flaw I think the P3's might need a little more power than the 23 watts the A21 puts out. Any suggestions for an upgrade? A few amps I have in mind are the Sugden A21SE Signature, Croft Series 7 amp with the Croft Micro 25 preamp, Heed Obelisk SI with X2 power supply, LFD LE V, and Lavardin ISx.

What do you all think? Thanks.

Hi,

All your suggestions, apart from Heed, would be a good match, but something from Primare, Electrocompaniet, Accuphase, or Pathos would be worth looking at.

I'm sure you'll get lots of other fine suggestions later.

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com

 

[Happy_Listener]

Thanks Mac...

However, there is no way I'm going to use a Class D Primare with the Harbeths. Not a fan of Class D, never heard an amp using it that I liked. Accuphase and Luxman are out as well. Don't think the Japanese sound matches up well with the very English Harbeth's. The Pathos is a great amp, not sure about the pairing though. Electrocompaniet's sound might be a great match. I know it well. Their ECI 3 integrated would be a natural contender, but think they discontinued that model.

 

[CnoEvil]

What do you all think?

I think you have a great taste in Amps.

I take it that an ex-dem Sugden Masterclass IA-4 is out of range....or a second hand MF AMS35i?

If you like Sugden...then it makes sense to upgrade within that make...but Pathos, Croft and Lavardin are great choices.

Would you consider Valves?

 

[rainsoothe]

Imo, Harbeths gel with detailed, open, even energetic sounding amps. So +1 to Sugden Masterclass and I think Bryston?

Also, why not Accuphase? They sound brilliant, same class A goodness, like Sugden.

 

[Al ears]

Imo, Harbeths gel with detailed, open, even energetic sounding amps. So +1 to Sugden Masterclass and I think Bryston?

Also, why not Accuphase? They sound brilliant, same class A goodness, like Sugden.

I'd like to try them with my amp only they are probably too small for my room. Positioning is everything rather than driving power.

 

[chebby]

1st generation Naim Nait XS amplifier from around late 2008 - 2012. (Not XS 2.) Spend money saved on full service from Naim.

PrimaLuna Prologue Premium Integrated. (£2298)

 

[Macspur]

Thanks Mac...

However, there is no way I'm going to use a Class D Primare with the Harbeths. Not a fan of Class D, never heard an amp using it that I liked. Accuphase and Luxman are out as well. Don't think the Japanese sound matches up well with the very English Harbeth's. The Pathos is a great amp, not sure about the pairing though. Electrocompaniet's sound might be a great match. I know it well. Their ECI 3 integrated would be a natural contender, but think they discontinued that model.

I only mentioned Primare as Alan Shaw from Harbeth claims it to be a good match for their speakers.

I can vouch personally for Accuphase, they are a fantastic match. I used to own the Sugden Masterclass, but it failed to control the base boom in my room so changed to Accuphase.

The Primaluna that Chebby suggested is supposed to be a lovely amp.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com

 

[Pedro]

Never read Alan Shaw recommending a brand or amp model on HUG...

 

[Happy_Listener]

I think Alan Shaw doesn't really believe that amplifiers sound much different from one another. Same goes for cables. Which begs the question, how does he design such great sounding speakers? I assume his hearing is fine. I just think his technical hat hangs over his ears a little too low when it comes to amps and wires. He could hear the differences if he really wanted to but chooses not to. Just a guess. Like most of you I can hear the differences clearly. That's partly why I love this hobby so much! It would be boring if everthing sounded the same wouldn't it?

 

[Happy_Listener]

What do you all think about the Sonneteer Orton MkIV?

 

[Andrewjvt]

Hi everyone!

I bought some new Harbeth P3ESR speakers. My current amp, a Sugden A21 Signature, seems to be a pretty good match. However, I wonder if I can do better? If it has a flaw I think the P3's might need a little more power than the 23 watts the A21 puts out. Any suggestions for an upgrade? A few amps I have in mind are the Sugden A21SE Signature, Croft Series 7 amp with the Croft Micro 25 preamp, Heed Obelisk SI with X2 power supply, LFD LE V, and Lavardin ISx. 

What do you all think? Thanks. 

Having just auditioned some speakers using sugden master class (amongst others) and can confirm the beautiful mids and highs but it lost control of the speakers and high volume but out of all the amps i tried the closest to the sugden sound/quality ive heard is hegel h360. Very clean power delivery and almost class a like sound but with much more power and total bass control. Give one a go

 

[nopiano]

I was going to mention these, but Andrew beat me to it! Harbeth have used them two years running for demonstrations at the Bristol show, and mighty good they sounded.

I never advocate what I use simply because I use it, but don't let outdated notions about class D put you off Primare, if ever you get the chance to audition one. Personally I'd want the watts and control of a solid state amp with your speakers, but we all have our preferences!

 

[insider9]

I never advocate what I use simply because I use it, but don't let outdated notions about class D put you off Primare, if ever you get the chance to audition one.  Personally I'd want the watts and control of a solid state amp with your speakers, but we all have our preferences!  

I love Primare and I'd love to hear I32 hoping it's a big improvement on I22. Unfortunately my I22 for all it's qualities didn't compare favourably to my old A30.1 when it came to timbre.

I do agree however on solid state as long as it's class A 🙂 Many great amps mentioned here already. Good problem to have.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi nopiano

Yes, Harbeth like Hegel amplification and have successfully used a H360 for the last two Bristol shows.

Btw, to the OP and depending on budget Hegel's Rost, Auralic's Polaris and Naim's Supernait 2 are also worth a look.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Good problem to have.

Hi inside9

Indeed *smile*

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Macspur]

Never read Alan Shaw recommending a brand or amp model on HUG...

Not a reccomendation as such, but in a particular post about suitable amps on the hug, he grudgingly said if he had to pick out one amp, it would be Primare

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com

 

[Macspur]

What do you all think about the Sonneteer Orton MkIV?

I've never heard the combo myself, but a Dealer once told me the two worked really well together.

There's an Accuphase E550 for sale on Choice HiFi for about 3K if your budget would allow.

Are you able to demo any of the brands mentioned?

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com

 

[Happy_Listener]

Hi Mac,

I demoed the Harbeths with a Croft Phono Inegrated. Obviously it was good enough with the P3's that I bought the speakers. Sounds very good together. If my memory serves me right I'd say that the added power controlled the P3's a little better than my Sugden does. Sound quality wise, overall, I think the two are pretty equal though. The Croft is a little smoother and drives the P3's better. The Sugden is a little clearer and slightly more detalted. So it could just be a sideways move. Unless, I go for the pre/power combo from Croft? Not sure how much better that is than the Croft integrated?

I've lisented to a few of the other amps everyone has listed here, but not with the Harbeth's. The Primare is not my cup of tea. It sounds like Class D always sounds to me. It's too bright, clean, and has this greyish flat quality about it where the tonal colors seemed washed out a bit. The Rogue Sphinx has this same quality. I much prefered the older Primare I21. Just my take, I know many of you like it.

Iv'e owned Luxman, it's great in many respects, but was too bright for me as well. Accuphase might be a little warmer sounding but never heard one. No dealers here for them. I heard the Pathos and it's a great amp, but not sure it's the right match with the Harbeths. I rather team up the Pathos with some Italian Opera or Sonus Faber speakers. I heard the Hegal H80 two times. Once with B&W speaker and it sounded really, really good. Then heard the Hegal once again with Proacs and it sounded way too bright. So I don't know about it.

My hunch tells me that I'd like the Heed Obelisk/X2 combination or the Sonneteer Orton. However, it's a gamble as I never heard them. I'm just going by the reviewers. Another one on that same list is the Belles Aria integrated amp. It's supposed to have a nice warm tube like sound.

I guess that leaves me with the Sugden and the Croft as the only two amps I have heard with the Harbeths. Everything else will be a gamble. I could upgrade to the Sugden A21SE or go for the Croft pre/combo. Or I could take that chance... Is it gambling season?

 

[Macspur]

Hi Mac,

I demoed the Harbeths with a Croft Phono Inegrated. Obviously it was good enough with the P3's that I bought the speakers. Sounds very good together. If my memory serves me right I'd say that the added power controlled the P3's a little better than my Sugden does. Sound quality wise, overall, I think the two are pretty equal though. The Croft is a little smoother and drives the P3's better. The Sugden is a little clearer and slightly more detalted. So it could just be a sideways move. Unless, I go for the pre/power combo from Croft? Not sure how much better that is than the Croft integrated?

I've lisented to a few of the other amps everyone has listed here, but not with the Harbeth's. The Primare is not my cup of tea. It sounds like Class D always sounds to me. It's too bright, clean, and has this greyish flat quality about it where the tonal colors seemed washed out a bit. The Rogue Sphinx has this same quality. I much prefered the older Primare I21. Just my take, I know many of you like it.

Iv'e owned Luxman, it's great in many respects, but was too bright for me as well. Accuphase might be a little warmer sounding but never heard one. No dealers here for them. I heard the Pathos and it's a great amp, but not sure it's the right match with the Harbeths. I rather team up the Pathos with some Italian Opera or Sonus Faber speakers. I heard the Hegal H80 two times. Once with B&W speaker and it sounded really, really good. Then heard the Hegal once again with Proacs and it sounded way too bright. So I don't know about it.

My hunch tells me that I'd like the Heed Obelisk/X2 combination or the Sonneteer Orton. However, it's a gamble as I never heard them. I'm just going by the reviewers. Another one on that same list is the Belles Aria integrated amp. It's supposed to have a nice warm tube like sound.

I guess that leaves me with the Sugden and the Croft as the only two amps I have heard with the Harbeths. Everything else will be a gamble. I could upgrade to the Sugden A21SE or go for the Croft pre/combo. Or I could take that chance... Is it gambling season?

Hi,

I've never heard a Primare myself and from your description, it wouldn't be for me.

There used to be a member here "Ed plays drums" and he changed from a Luxman because of the heat issues, to a Croft pre/power I believe and was very happy with it.

Now you come to mention Bells, they are supposed to be a superb amp

I did love my Sugden Masterclass, particularly vocals, they were so natural, but I couldn't live with the base boom, not to mention the heat.

Whereabouts do you live? in this country? What dealers do you have about you

The beauty about the Accuphase, it has tone controls.

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com

 

[Andrewjvt]

Hi nopiano

Yes, Harbeth like Hegel amplification and have successfully used a H360 for the last two Bristol shows. 

Btw, to the OP and depending on budget Hegel's Rost, Auralic's Polaris and Naim's Supernait 2 are also worth a look.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

listing 3 makes of amplifier you sell is a good way to try generate sales but having just listened to naim supernait 2(while an enjoyable, lively presentation)
Imo does not even come close to the hegel h360s control and clarity. Maybe with less demanding speakers like harbeth it may be an option.

 

[Happy_Listener]

Hi Mac,

I live in the USA. I have about three audio dealers near me. Problem is they don't carry most of what I like, which is U.K. kit. I just tend to gravitate towards this sound. I think your brethren make some of the finest sounding mid-priced audio gear around. 🙂 The USA and Germany do make great uber-priced high-end audio gear. However, how many of us can afford that? The U.K. seem to specialize in kit that is for the everyman. You can see it in the differences in Magazines. The USA does not have a What Hi-Fi?, Hi-Fi Choice, or Hi-Fi World equivalent where there are loads of affordable audio gear that is reviewed. The USA has Stereophile and Absoulute Sound where 95% of the audio gear reviewed costs "mega-bucks" (A bucket full of Quid).

Anyways, back to my orginal post. After some thought I am leaning heavely towards the Croft Micro preamp/7 poweramp. I figure I can sell my Pro-ject phono preamp then. The Croft phono stage is about as a good as anything under $1000. Keeps things simple. Also, the Sugden heat gets a little tiresome in the summertime. Plus that Masterclass IA-4 looks about as heavy as a boat anchor.

 

[Electro]

Never read Alan Shaw recommending a brand or amp model on HUG...

Not a reccomendation as such, but in a particular post about suitable amps on the hug, he grudgingly said if he had to pick out one amp, it would be Primare

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com

This Video with Alan Shaw might interest Harbeth owners !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRMR9JZ1m0s

 

[Macspur]

Hi Mac,

I live in the USA. I have about three audio dealers near me. Problem is they don't carry most of what I like, which is U.K. kit. I just tend to gravitate towards this sound. I think your brethren make some of the finest sounding mid-priced audio gear around. 🙂 The USA and Germany do make great uber-priced high-end audio gear. However, how many of us can afford that? The U.K. seem to specialize in kit that is for the everyman. You can see it in the differences in Magazines. The USA does not have a What Hi-Fi?, Hi-Fi Choice, or Hi-Fi World equivalent where there are loads of affordable audio gear that is reviewed. The USA has Stereophile and Absoulute Sound where 95% of the audio gear reviewed costs "mega-bucks" (A bucket full of Quid).

Anyways, back to my orginal post. After some thought I am leaning heavely towards the Croft Micro preamp/7 poweramp. I figure I can sell my Pro-ject phono preamp then. The Croft phono stage is about as a good as anything under $1000. Keeps things simple. Also, the Sugden heat gets a little tiresome in the summertime. Plus that Masterclass IA-4 looks about as heavy as a boat anchor.

I really don't think you can go wrong with the Croft pre/power... it's certainly a popular combo. with Harbeth.

Yes, the Sugden was a bit of a beast, mind you, the Accuphase is no light weight, but it doesn't get hot thank goodness.

Good luck and look forward to hearing about the outcome.

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com

 

[Macspur]

Never read Alan Shaw recommending a brand or amp model on HUG...

Not a reccomendation as such, but in a particular post about suitable amps on the hug, he grudgingly said if he had to pick out one amp, it would be Primare

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com

This Video with Alan Shaw might interest Harbeth owners !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRMR9JZ1m0s

Yes, enjoyed that, thanks Electro

Mac

www.realmusicnet.wordpress.com