Question Seeking advice on "demanding" speakers...

[YourBelgianThings]

Hi - first post here.

I recently had my Hegel H160 amplifier repaired and, when picking it up, the repair guy was talking enthusiastically about how good an amp it is (agreed) and how an amp like that will work best with "demanding" speakers, raving in particular about various vintage speakers. Currently, I have a pair of 10 year old Dynaudio Focus 160 Bookshelf speakers, which are fantastic. I have been thinking about getting some floorstanders, with the qualifiers that they would have to be reasonably compact and not cost the world.

I have two questions, if anyone could help.

1. What does is mean to say a speaker is "demanding"?
2. Assuming that my repair guy was correct, does anybody have any suggestions for a "demanding" speaker - or brand of speakers - that would go well with a Hegel H160 (in conjunction with an Audiolab 8300CD and Rega turntable).

Thanks!

 

[Integralista]

Hi, how big is your listening area/room? Do you have some sort of freedome in positioning of speakers like e.g. place them some 30-40cm from rear wall? I like Dynaudio speakers as well even not having them at home. When listening to CD do you use dac in Hegel or dac in Audiolab CD? Which speaker cables do you have? BR

 

[YourBelgianThings]

Hi, how big is your listening area/room? Do you have some sort of freedome in positioning of speakers like e.g. place them some 30-40cm from rear wall? I like Dynaudio speakers as well even not having them at home. When listening to CD do you use dac in Hegel or dac in Audiolab CD? Which speaker cables do you have? BR

Room is pretty big. Maybe 20-ish feet by 10 feet. CD player currently connected to Hegel via analogue input, so I think that means I am using Audiolab DAC. The Dynaudio are currently on stands about 15cm from wall beside them and 30 cm from wall behind. Can't remember what the speaker cables are, but they are decent ones.

 

[Al ears]

A: your current speakers are not demanding and B: you don't want any.
To me he means those that have big dips in efficiency. Speakers, even if quoted as 8 ohm can actually dip to much less somewhere in the frequency band.
Some can drop to 2 ohm or less that are really demanding on an amplifier, but only occasionally, these, in my opinion, are best avoided.
Yes the amp may be able to handle them but would they work well in your room?
I doubt it. And why replace speakers you are happy with on the off chance you will find better?

 

[Integralista]

Room is pretty big. Maybe 20-ish feet by 10 feet. CD player currently connected to Hegel via analogue input, so I think that means I am using Audiolab DAC. The Dynaudio are currently on stands about 15cm from wall beside them and 30 cm from wall behind. Can't remember what the speaker cables are, but they are decent ones.

Hi, you have very good amp. I think middle models are the best in Hegel line. Yes it is powerhouse 2x150Watt to 8 Ohm. But amp has highlu musical and rytmic character. With his currrent reserves in power amp your choices regarding matching speakers are very huge. But I think Dynaudio Focus 160 are "old" but amazing speakers. For many they replaced old legendary Conrour 1.3 or 1.3SE. New Contour 20i is again big improvement but more.expensive. Between them is just Dynaudio Special 40. I recommend not to change this very balanced system. If more bass is required more "heft" and dynamic in lower registers, than try proper subwoofer in your system. Something like Dynaudio Sub 3 will work great here. Or some older version, or Velodyne, SVS, Rel. You have very good preamp inside Hegel H 160 with Pre Out RCA connectors which you can easily use. If you still want floorstanders, than Dynaudio Focus 260 will fit into your room. Replace good Dynaudio speakers with nearly anything you will miss their clarity, neutrality and "full" sound with solide bass dundament. Such speakers are very sensitive also on speaker cables, it is worth some experimenting. And finaly, Hegel H160 has very good dac inside, I recommend to try to use Audiolab just as CD drive and Hegel as dac with digital Coax connection between them. Changed sound could be attaractive for you. And finaly which Rega TT do you have? What kind of cartridge? BR

 

[Al ears]

Interesting what some people will read into a thread to suggest you need a subwoofer.....
🙂
In lot of cases floorstanders are more efficient than standmounts.

 

[Integralista]

A: your current speakers are not demanding and B: you don't want any.
To me he means those that have big dips in efficiency. Speakers, even if quoted as 8 ohm can actually dip to much less somewhere in the frequency band.
Some can drop to 2 ohm or less that are really demanding on an amplifier, but only occasionally, these, in my opinion, are best avoided.
Yes the amp may be able to handle them but would they work well in your room?
I doubt it. And why replace speakers you are happy with on the off chance you will find better?

Yes that is right. Dynaudio impedance is "dancing" with some swings and dips but it is not a problem, He needs weel designed amp which he has. And than similar like Harbeth, they are very detailed and show even little change in system. I am also recommending to keep those great speakers. To get better you will have to pay around 3000Eur for new pair. They are so good.😉

 

[Integralista]

Interesting what some people will read into a thread to suggest you need a subwoofer.....
🙂
In lot of cases floorstanders are more efficient than standmounts.

Yes I agree. Soundwice often bookshelfs are better that their big sisters. Case from case different. Than SW may help with better sound and "matching" with room. And there is the real problem of our hobby.

 

[Gray]

....an amp like that will work best with "demanding" speakers

That's a bit of strange logic from your repair man.
Demanding speakers might work better with a capable amp but, regardless of what amp they have, nobody should go purposely looking for demanding speakers.
Maybe you (or he) are under the impression that demanding means better sounding. The demanding speaker might (coincidentally) be better sounding - but certainly not because it's demanding.

 

[Fandango Andy]

Hi - first post here.

I recently had my Hegel H160 amplifier repaired and, when picking it up, the repair guy was talking enthusiastically about how good an amp it is (agreed) and how an amp like that will work best with "demanding" speakers, raving in particular about various vintage speakers. Currently, I have a pair of 10 year old Dynaudio Focus 160 Bookshelf speakers, which are fantastic. I have been thinking about getting some floorstanders, with the qualifiers that they would have to be reasonably compact and not cost the world.

I have two questions, if anyone could help.

1. What does is mean to say a speaker is "demanding"?
2. Assuming that my repair guy was correct, does anybody have any suggestions for a "demanding" speaker - or brand of speakers - that would go well with a Hegel H160 (in conjunction with an Audiolab 8300CD and Rega turntable).

Thanks!

I think your repair guy is looking at it backwards. An amp doesn't necessarily perform better with demanding speakers. Some amps are more capable of driving demanding speakers than others. I have no experience of your amp, but would hazard a guess looking at the specs that it does drive demanding speakers well. As it had lots of power.

The reason some speakers tend to get labeled demanding is if they have either low sensitivity, and/or low impedance. My speakers are 6Ω, but and relatively high sensitivity. They are perfectly happy with 50Wpc.

 

[YourBelgianThings]

That's a bit of strange logic from your repair man.
Demanding speakers might work better with a capable amp but, regardless of what amp they have, nobody should go purposely looking for demanding speakers.
Maybe you (or he) are under the impression that demanding means better sounding. The demanding speaker might (coincidentally) be better sounding - but certainly not because it's demanding.

I don't know enough about hifi to either (a) really understand what he was saying or (b) form an opinion about whether demanding=better, although I doubted that would automatically be the case.

But thanks all for the replies. My sense (and the consensus here seems the same) is if it ain't broke , don't fix it, although looking for secondhand Focus 260s sounds like one avenue worth considering....

 

[GroeneLeeuw]

Yep if my car is offroad capable I´ll wish all roads have plenty of potholes
😉

 

[RJW232]

1. What does is mean to say a speaker is "demanding"?
2. Assuming that my repair guy was correct, does anybody have any suggestions for a "demanding" speaker - or brand of speakers - that would go well with a Hegel H160 (in conjunction with an Audiolab 8300CD and Rega turntable).

A demanding speaker is just another word for a bad design. Like an impedance that jumps up and down through the frequency range and dipping to dangerously low values.

IMHO a loudspeaker designer must design loudspeakers that will work with any good amplifier.

 

[Al ears]

A demanding speaker is just another word for a bad design. Like an impedance that jumps up and down through the frequency range and dipping to dangerously low values.

IMHO a loudspeaker designer must design loudspeakers that will work with any good amplifier.

That's where I would disagree. Most speakers will dip low in impedance at times somewhere in their frequency range because they have to. Ones that don't are merely a compromise.
A good amplifier needs to cope with this.

 

[Fandango Andy]

A demanding speaker is just another word for a bad design. Like an impedance that jumps up and down through the frequency range and dipping to dangerously low values.

IMHO a loudspeaker designer must design loudspeakers that will work with any good amplifier.

I have to agree more with @AI ears assessment more than yours.

All amps and loudspeakers working together sounds like a recipe for mediocrity.

 

[ninanina]

Hi - first post here.

I recently had my Hegel H160 amplifier repaired and, when picking it up, the repair guy was talking enthusiastically about how good an amp it is (agreed) and how an amp like that will work best with "demanding" speakers, raving in particular about various vintage speakers. Currently, I have a pair of 10 year old Dynaudio Focus 160 Bookshelf speakers, which are fantastic. I have been thinking about getting some floorstanders, with the qualifiers that they would have to be reasonably compact and not cost the world.

I have two questions, if anyone could help.

1. What does is mean to say a speaker is "demanding"?
2. Assuming that my repair guy was correct, does anybody have any suggestions for a "demanding" speaker - or brand of speakers - that would go well with a Hegel H160 (in conjunction with an Audiolab 8300CD and Rega turntable).

Thanks!

Well ATC speakers are supposed to be demanding but I run my SCM 19’s with a fairly average Naim XS3 that isn’t supposed to drive them properly…. however it just does and the 19’s sound incredible

Your amp is a bit of a power house so please try some ATC speakers… SCM11’s & 19’s if you want stand mounts

I cannot recommend ATC speakers enough as they are just amazing…. Music just flows from them in such an amazing way…totally neutral sounding and magical at the same time

There’s no doubt that ATC’s will show up anything negatively in your setup.. that’s what they do but with my rather modest setup of Naim XS3, MXN10 streamer the 19’s sound amazing

There are many ATC’s available…. I had a home demo of the 11’s as well as the 19’s and the 11’s were so good but thought I’d also try the 19’s. I would have happily lived with the 11’s until I heard the 19’s… just more of the ATC sound

Apparently the 19’s have the better mid/base driver compared to the 11’s and maybe that’s the reason I chose the 19’s

An incredible sounding speaker and one that will be with me forever

ATC’s are beautifully built in the UK and sound magical too

 

[daytona600]

What does is mean to say a speaker is "demanding"
8/4 Ohms nominal all amps will drive these

"Bastard Loads "like Apogee Scintillas and Electrostatics can dip below 1ohm & amp almost thinks its driving a short circuit and goes into shutdown or Thermal Runaway ( goes up in flames )
Amp needs to supply lots of current & voltage as resistance halves assuming amp has a massive stiff PSU
Amp needs huge heatsinks or Fans as high output means Big Heat to get rid off

Specs never quote a under 4ohm output rating
Sub 4ohm only serious amps need apply

100wpc @8ohm normal speakers
200wpc@4ohm will double down on output
400wpc@2ohm will x4
800wpc@1ohm will x8

PA amps offer Huge outputs
12 x Powersoft amps with 5200wpc@2ohm roughly about 62,400wpc

 

[ninanina]

What does is mean to say a speaker is "demanding"
8/4 Ohms nominal all amps will drive these

"Bastard Loads "like Apogee Scintillas and Electrostatics can dip below 1ohm & amp almost thinks its driving a short circuit and goes into shutdown or Thermal Runaway ( goes up in flames )
Amp needs to supply lots of current & voltage as resistance halves assuming amp has a massive stiff PSU
Amp needs huge heatsinks or Fans as high output means Big Heat to get rid off

Specs never quote a under 4ohm output rating
Sub 4ohm only serious amps need apply

100wpc @8ohm normal speakers
200wpc@4ohm will double down on output
400wpc@2ohm will x4
800wpc@1ohm will x8

PA amps offer Huge outputs
12 x Powersoft amps with 5200wpc@2ohm roughly about 62,400wpc

View attachment 11481

I owned a pair of Magneplanar’s until fairly recently and they certainly are very demanding speakers

I ran the Maggie’s with a Mark Levinson 383 amplifier and it was ‘just enough’ power for them… they just soak up power

I also used to own a pair of ESL 57’s and they were much more forgiving and I ran those with a Quad 33/303 combo no problem